416 Rigby
9.3X62

Both can take DG at 50 meters and both can handle PG out to 300 meters with lighter bullets like TSX.

For me, my Blaser R8 in 375H&H with IC Zeiss 2.5-10 and my 500 Westley Richards double.

Al bases covered with this combo.

Nick

Surefire 7;

Your remarks always make sense which is a mystery to me with you living in Colorado!

More to the point, your remark to my 2 gun battery is spot on but I measure the probability of a rifle failure and I conclude it is so small that the failure question is a throw out. Hence, the .270 has produced one shot kills on sable, kudu, water buck, lechwe, puka,nanya, and of course the impala and wart hog.

I am sure you will agree that bullet construction and marksmanship are key points when hunting in Africa. It seems to me that most of the lads are over gunned. Carrying a rifle for the purposes of a long distance shot is a myth. In my 60 years of hunting big game all over the world, I can count on one hand the animals killed at a range over 150 yards and that record includes a Grand Slam of American Sheep.

Stay ahead of the sheriff.

404 Jeff
300 win

I am in the process of having a custom stock made for my 404 Jeff Model 70 conversion, and then I will have a custom 300 win mag built on a pre war Model 70 action, with matching stocks. That will be my ultimate battery just because those are my favorite calibers. They will both make my next safari in 2019.

35 Whelen and 400 Whelen?
350 Rigby and 416 Rigby?
256 Gibbs and 505 Gibbs?
30 Newton and 40 Newton?
333 Jeffery and 404 Jeffery?
300 HH and 400 HH?
318 WR and 425 WR?

I still like every one of the suggestions,
even boom stick's, who cannot make up his mind either.


Rip
.

I think it is cool to have the same name on your guns. Another fun question to ask is what pair of wildcat guns? What pair if you designed them?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I think it is cool to have the same name on your guns. Another fun question to ask is what pair of wildcat guns? What pair if you designed them?

I like the way you think Boomie!

That is why on another thread recently, I was musing the merits of a 3-rifle battery for Africa of the 275 Rigby, 350 Rigby and 416 Rigby. I have the first and last, so I'm checking into the possibilites of the 350 Rigby! Love the idea...

Sorry if this was a hijack. We now return you to the great topic of 2-rifle batteries...

quote:

Originally posted by cpaer:
Surefire 7;

Your remarks always make sense which is a mystery to me with you living in Colorado!

More to the point, your remark to my 2 gun battery is spot on but I measure the probability of a rifle failure and I conclude it is so small that the failure question is a throw out. Hence, the .270 has produced one shot kills on sable, kudu, water buck, lechwe, puka,nanya, and of course the impala and wart hog.

I am sure you will agree that bullet construction and marksmanship are key points when hunting in Africa. It seems to me that most of the lads are over gunned. Carrying a rifle for the purposes of a long distance shot is a myth. In my 60 years of hunting big game all over the world, I can count on one hand the animals killed at a range over 150 yards and that record includes a Grand Slam of American Sheep.

Stay ahead of the sheriff.

First, thanks for the compliment in your first line,....I think!

I have no doubt whatsoever on your success with the PG you mentioned you took with your 270. And congratulations on your choice and your fine shooting!

As I mentioned in my previous post, I have taken a share of PG with my medium bores, and they too work just fine. Like you, I've taken Sable and Waterbuck, but with a 338WM and 375H&H. Four Kudu with both a 338 & 375. Lechwe and Puku with a 35 Whelen. Impala and Warthogs with a 338. Not sure what the Nanya is. A typo? Maybe something I haven't hunted yet. If a typo, perhaps you meant Nyala? If so, I took mine with a 338.

To the point, while your 270 did work just fine on these PG animals, so did my medium bores. And if trouble did raise it's ugly head on my big bore, I felt better armed with the mediums to finish my safaris for the DG if not yet taken. About the largest weight bullet in a 270 is a 160NP, unless you go for the 180 gr. Even a 7mm has a max of 175gr. unless you can find a 195gr., but neither caliber can load a 200gr. or heavier bullet.

With the 338s and larger mediums, the heaviest is in the 300-320gr. range. A huge step up in both weight and diameter. In my 338, I carry 275gr. (but could go 300gr.) for covering my big bore, but I hunt with 250s. In my 35, I hunt with 250s, but carry extra 310gr. My 375 is fine as it is with 300gr.

I also agree with your feelings that the odds of a rifle breaking down on a hunt is slim, but we all know of Mr. Murphy. On my last hunt in Zambia, I took a three rifle battery of 7mmRM, 35 Whelen, and 404 Jeffery. I was hunting Buffalo, Leopard, and PG. My 7mm went out of action, which I was going to use on the Leopard and Lechwe: Murphy's law and second corollary. The 35 stepped in, and in this case, took both animals plus about four more PG trophies. So I guess the lesson for me anyway was, 'never say never'! There is some great beauty in three rifle batteries...

Finally, I totally agree with you on the primary premise of bullet construction and placement: no substitute! And to your point, I have not yet run into a long shot (300 yds and longer) in Africa. There are, of course, places where it can happen, and I thought the Kafue Lechwe on the Kafue flats might have been it, so I brought my 7mmRM, only to have it break down. Luckily, the shot was no more than 200 yds, and the 35 Whelen did it's duty.

Congratulations on a life of successful hunting and your Grand Slam! A very noteworthy accomplishment.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I think it is cool to have the same name on your guns. Another fun question to ask is what pair of wildcat guns? What pair if you designed them?

I like the way you think Boomie!

That is why on another thread recently, I was musing the merits of a 3-rifle battery for Africa of the 275 Rigby, 350 Rigby and 416 Rigby. I have the first and last, so I'm checking into the possibilites of the 350 Rigby! Love the idea...

Sorry if this was a hijack. We now return you to the great topic of 2-rifle batteries...

The 350 Rigby is pure class. I love the cart and the guns made for them.

quote:

The 350 Rigby is pure class. I love the cart and the guns made for them.

My word, that is a beautiful rifle! And in 350 Rigby you say...

Sort of like the Crips and the Bloods,
the Rigby and the Jeffery gangbangers.
A mixed metaphor for a two-wildcat safari battery:






The Cornbread Mafia in Kentucky calls itself the Hoot&Hollers and prefer the H&H pairs.
I am not affiliated with that organization.


Rip
.

I will probably never be able to go to Africa so no opinion from me. But this is interesting reading, and what would make it even more interesting would be if you not only said the calibers you have taken or are going to take, but also the specific rifles in those calibers as well.

7x64 & 9.3x62
150 & 250 TTSX or Partitions.

I`d rather pick a country that allows the 9.3 on Big 5, then a "stopper rifle" only intended for 2-3 species.

Never mind that I dont have the finances to go hunting buffalo and elephants each year, while I could hunt lesser species each year.

Lindy2, I'll bite. I plan to go someday and have planned the rifles too.

My plains game rifles would be one of two options

A 30-06 built on a Springfield 1903 by Jim Dubell and Chic Worthing, engraved by Roger Kehr.
Or a 35 Whelen on a Springfield 1903 by Jim Dubell and Jim Kobe, also engraved by Roger Kehr.

My heavy is still being built a 404 Jeffrey on a Argentine 09 Mauser by Duane Wiebe, engraved by Roger Kehr.

If my son can go with he will take a Montana 99 in 9.3x62 and a 416 Remington Mag on a Remington model 1917 by C. Wilson.

My usual is a.416 Rigby and a .375 H&H. Covers plains game and dangerous game just fine. I always dread the thought of running into an upset buffalo with a small bore in my hands.

If it's primarily elephant, then .470 and .416.

For special reasons (like concern for having to shoot longer range at specialist plains game) I will add a .338 or .30 magnum to the mix.

On the other hand, I took a .30-06 to South Africa and was very happy with how well it worked. Sometimes we make more of this than we need to...

crbutler

what were the rifles? All Minnesota made?

Eagle's Dad

Sounds like a lot of fun coming up in the future.

Eagle Dad, curious if you picked up that 416 remmy at the Bass Pro fine gun room? If so, I picked that one up about every time I walked in. Did a fair amount of research trying to determine who the builder (C. Wilson) was. It's a nice rifle, I just couldn't get myself to write the check.

The .375 and the .416 are Dakotas, just across the state line.

The .338 and the .300 are from Minnesota by Jim Kobe

The .30-06 also was from Minnesota by Don Allen.

The .470 was from Germany, a Merkel.

Custom,

Yep that is the one. Saw it and walked away. Came back three weeks later Threw out a lower price, they accepted and I bought it. Than I told the wife. She said it sounded like a good deal.

Lindy2, yeah. It will be a couple years yet. Promises to my wife and all. But it gives me lots of time to really plan it out.

In the case of my .416 Rigby and .375 H&H, I can't say a whole lot. I have owned them about 2 weeks and with my right hand in a cast for 2 more weeks it may be a while before they get shot.

The .416 Rigby is a custom built on a Double Square Bridge Mauser Magnum Action. Other than the cartridge identification on the barrel and the serial number on the receiver, there is not another mark of any kind on it. Hasn't seen much use and from the quantity of once fired and unfired brass I got with it and live ammo, probably about 60 rounds through it.

The .375 H&H is easy. It is a commercial Whitworth. Unfired.

Here in North Carolina neither caliber is particularly popular. A dealer friend of mine called me when he got them and thought I might like them since I have peculiar tastes in firearms. After a little haggling I got the 2 of them for $1300 out the door.

Maybe you could flash a photo of that Double square bridge and somebody might know what it is?

Sounds to me like you got one hell of a deal.

Good to see the 416 Rigby turning up in people's lists, where it should be, whether light or heavy rifle.

Factory Rigby ammo tends to shoot a 400 grain bullet with chamber temps as cold as ice cream.
With modern bullets, a 350grain TTSX will penetrate about the same as the old 400grain soft points, sometimes more. But the 350grainers can be hand-loaded to 2800fps or more and shot as far as the eye can see in Africa. (OK, truth in advertising, you don't need over 400 yards in Africa and 2800fps is comfortably flat out to that range, like a 338WM.) If someone wants older lead-core bullets and slower speeds, then maybe a 450grain Woodleigh hand loaded to 2400fps would be awesome and pretty flat out to 275-325 yards, handling 99% of situations.

The trick is to let a 416 Rigby cartridge lie in the palm of one's hand for a minute. It is as nicely proportioned as a 30-06, just bigger all around, and says "Africa" distinctly and loud enough to hear.

A 340 Wby and a 416 Rem or Rigby.

Originally posted by drhall762:
Here's Left and Right side more or less.

30/06 and 416 remington.

No perfect answer to this sort of question but here is my solution. Matching Remington Model 30s in 460 Jeffrey and 300 H&H. I think I'm ready for pretty much everything.

SaxonPig,

Certainly a nice pair, though with little redundancy for backup service.

What exactly is a 460 Jeffery and how is it different from a 460 G&A Long or Short, or a .450 Vincent Long or Short?

I am thinking of another duo, not purely wildcat, not totally obsolete either:

400 Whelen-P-B 3.6" and .458 Winchester Magnum-B 3.6".
210-400gr bullets in the former and 350-500gr bullets in the latter.
Both made on Winchester M70 Classic Stainless or FN "Extreme Weather" donor actions,
both using Duane Wiebe XRM boxes for 5+1 and 4+1 capacity respectively.
Both with Wisner reproduction M70 "African" rear sights.
Both with Nikon SlugHunter scopes.

The 400 Whelen-Petrov-Berry 3.6" of 2013 (.411-caliber):
210-grainers at 2830 fps MV for varmint work
300-grainers at 2550 fps MV for H&H work
400-grainers at 2200 fps MV for 450/400 NE 3" work.

The .458 Winchester Magnum-B 3.6":
350-grainers at 2700 fps MV for varmint work
400-grainers at 2500 fps MV for H&H and Rigby work
500-grainers at 2200 fps MV for anything work.

There is a bit of redundancy there.

Add the "African" sights and switch scopes on this one and my battery is half-done:



This Pre-'64 WinCzechster .458 WinMag is subbing until the stainless M70 is born, at least it has the correct scope:




Rip
.

.300 H&H and .404 Jeff

More good options than carter has liver pills and they all work fine in today Africa, with a PH packing a big bore beside you..

But I do believe you can save the PH as well as he can save you and I have done that..

Any big bore from 375 and up will work even on elephant, actually so will a 9.3x62 or 74 in a double...As to the light rifle, it should be a good reasonably long range killer, but in DG country it needs to be able to defend yourself with on whatever shows up mad. My choice for that has been a .338 Win. and I keep a solid under the first round for buff and elephant on the prod.

My take only on this subject that's been beat to death for ions..

Depends on where you hunt in Africa...
For me the ideal combination would be:
300 H&H/308 Norma Magnum + 400 H&H
or
358 Norma Magnum/9.3x64/375H&H + 400 H&H

There is no need to ponder further...

This is a great question, and can be pondered for ages, I think it is somewhat depending on where you are hunting.

I took a 3 rifle battery the first time, 300WM, 375 H&H, and 416 Rigby ( in a double Heym, yes there is such a rifle ). The 300 was a Lex gun from Rifles Inc, love the rifle, shot gemsbok and zebra with it out past 400 yards. However, it did not make the next three trips, pretty much everything it can do, the 375 can do too.

My logic was pretty much logistics :

1. Either rifle can shoot PG or Big 5.
2. There is plenty of ammo accessible in Africa for either.
3. I can shoot the 416 double pretty good out to 250 if I have to, with irons. I've practiced that range, and I'm confident in the rifle and I out to there.
4. The 375 can do what ever the 416 does up close for the most part, it's got a 1.6-10 scope on it, it's probably better in low light with the illuminated reticle.

Best rifles to take? The ones YOU feel most confident with and enjoy shooting. Isn't that why we do this anyway?

The 338-378'weatherby and the 416 rem mag.That way anyone range or big.stuff is covered.I.used that combo in Alaska 12 years and its awesome !

416 Rem, 416 Rigby, or 404J= primary
375H&H or 9.3x62= second

Have tried various combinations and have pretty much settled on a .416 Rem. Mag. built by Bill Wiseman and a .30-06 cut-down M70. Both are topped with Swaro Z6 1x6's, the .416 illuminated. The M70 is extremely light weight. Like having the same scope on both rifles. They work for me.

What better proprietary battery than a .416 Dakota and a .450 Dakota?
Hard to beat.




Just not as good in an ammo pinch as my original idea, the non-proprietary pairing:
.375 Weatherby Magnum
.458 Winchester Magnum
Either in a pair of Winchester M70s with 3.6" boxes,
or a pair of CZ550 Magnums with 3.8" boxes.
The ultimate battery is not unobtainium-plated,
that was said just to humor Atkinson.

This is the Obtainium-Plated Ultimate Safari Battery, period:




.375 Wby and .458 WinMag,
a win-Win combination.

(All of this just for that pun.)


Rip
.

Although I love the classic 318 posted above, if I had to pick two rifles for "all the big stuff" to include all dangerous game with overlap, then both rifles need to be DG capable. I'd have to go with the classic 8 double (DG plus plains) and 4 single (for following up big stuff or if in a tight spot where you're only going to get one shot anyway) combo. Sure you might want to pass on sniping impala at 300 yards but if you can avoid get stomped or gored they'll always be another day.

8-bore DR for PG+DG and 4-bore DR for a stopper.
Yep, some redundancy there, that'll do.
That is certainly one way to get your crank turned.


Rip
.

Absolutely gorgeous.

Who ws the maker?

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:
Although I love the classic 318 posted above, if I had to pick two rifles for "all the big stuff" to include all dangerous game with overlap, then both rifles need to be DG capable. I'd have to go with the classic 8 double (DG plus plains) and 4 single (for following up big stuff or if in a tight spot where you're only going to get one shot anyway) combo. Sure you might want to pass on sniping impala at 300 yards but if you can avoid get stomped or gored they'll always be another day.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Absolutely gorgeous.

Who was the maker?

Thomas Bland c. 1887. When I went to Zim in 08 my battery was the 4 single, a light 10-bore double, and I borrowed a camp 375. That covered a lot of bases.
Bob