Perhaps there is something to know that just isn't obvious. It's a mystery to me why the 416 Rigby is as popular as it is.

Could someone please explain this phenomenon?

KB

In a phrase? Romancing the round! That's the reason I have a 404 Jeffery (soon to be two 404 jeffery rifles!) Just as good a reason as any I know.

I like it because the bullets let in lots of air and light into a beast and that seems to be the key to a quick bellybutton on dirt.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
In a phrase? Romancing the round! That's the reason I have a 404 Jeffery (soon to be two 404 jeffery rifles!) Just as good a reason as any I know.

Romance ?? You mean - like dating a bimbo with inflated fake tits? I always figured more than a handful was a waste?

I can understand the 404, but not the 416 Rigby, but I don't want to waste the words explaining.

KB

CZ 550 magnum is the reason its popular today .. quick, name 3 companies that chamber the round and have on hand inventory
cz
ruger
???
???

It's a nice heavy medium/light big bore, with mild recoil and great downrange performance.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
CZ 550 magnum is the reason its popular today ..
It's a nice heavy medium/light big bore, with mild recoil and great downrange performance.

Are you saying it's popular because rifles are available so chambered? Or are you saying that rifles are so chambered because it's popular?

What if the rifles chambered in 416 Taylor, then would that cartridge be popular?

416 Remington - same question?

Great downrange performance - same could be said of the 375 H&H, or the 416 Taylor, since it basically duplicates the ballistics of the fatter cartridge.

Mild recoil, is a subjective thing, especially when considring the portion of the recoil generated just from the massive powder charge.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Perhaps there is something to know that just isn't obvious. It's a mystery to me why the 416 Rigby is as popular as it is.

Could someone please explain this phenomenon?

KB

Simple. Because it's a fuckin' wonderful calibre.

some calibres just work beyond their mathmatical expectations and the 416 Rigby is one of them.

(IMO) others that fall into that same catagory are the 375 H&H, 404 & 500 Jeffery and also a few others.

I reckon some at least must agree with me because all those calibres have well and truly stood the test of time!

Was it not originally developed for cordite, hence the huge case?

It seems to have worked well for 98 years!

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
It's a mystery to me why the 416 Rigby is as popular as it is.

Could someone please explain this phenomenon?

It's an ego thing.

I think it is popular simply because CZ elected to chamber a rifle in it and sell it at a price that the normal shooter could handle. Thus allowing him to have a rifle with the name and history of Rigby.

But to me the market for the H&Hs, Jefferies, Rigby are small compared to the 30-06 & 300wmags buyers of the world.

When John deer hunter goes to the store he buys a 700 in 30-06 not a 416Rem. When a bigbore shooter history reader goes to buy a 416 he jumps at the chance for a 416"Rigby" over a 416 Rem or Taylor. Prices equal. Would the Rem & Taylor do the job. Sure! Do they have the name and campfire discussion appeal of the Rigby NOPE.

its popular due to affordable rifles .. if cz had chosen the 404, that would be the market share .. same with the lott ..

if CZ had chosen the 425, 416rem, etc etc etc it would have been the defacto ...

yes, guns available means people talking about it, means ammo makers making, means components available ..

a2 and i think weatherby tried to make a go with the 416 taylor, and savage did the 425 express .. no market stickiness.

if people don't want it (whatever drives want) the market won't make it .. its self correcting ...

which si why cz rifles are now double what they were 6 years ago.

The Rigby is flat out cool. properly loaded its very flat shooting. Not so the Taylor. Don't get me wrong the Taylor will work great for the things a 416 is supposed to do. The Rigby is far more versatile. Recoil, not on the same planet with the smaller ones. I'm talking modern loads, I know most on here will simply pop 400s out at 2400 and be happy. I don't hunt Aftrica and consider the Rigby sort of a giant 06. Haveing said all that I've gone back to a Mod. 70 in 416 Rem. Slightly smaller/lighter and with 350 gr TSXs does all I could possibly need. Still consider the Rigby very cool, there's just something about stuffing those big fat rounds into the mag that puts a smile on your face.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Perhaps there is something to know that just isn't obvious. It's a mystery to me why the 416 Rigby is as popular as it is.

Could someone please explain this phenomenon?

KB

Why is the .416 Rigby so popular? Simple! It may the finest big game cartridge ever invented for a magazine rifle. Nice gentle taper with no belt so it feeds like butter and a roomy case so it shoots at very modest pressures which is just exactly what you need when hunting in a hot climate. A .416 diameter bullet at 2350 fps which generates recoil that most shooters can handle and ballistics that, with the right bullets, will work on most everything, including an elephant. The .416 Remington and Taylor are good cartridges but what seperates the Rigby from the pack is an almost perfect case design and the ability to shoot at much lower pressures. Shakari is right.

The one thing that I can't understand is that we went for years when good magnum length actions were scare as hen's teeth and now that we have actions available from CZ, Granite Mountain, and maybe someday from Montana Rifle Company, everyone wants to try and squeeze their cartridges into a smaller action. "Could someone please explain this phenomenon?"

I think this low pressure thing is not a true statment, about the Rigby. I think it's a myth for and by true believers. The 458 WM and 416 Taylor seem to work fine in African heat.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

everyone wants to try and squeeze their cartridges into a smaller action. "Could someone please explain this phenomenon?"

I think this low pressure thing is not a true statment, about the Rigby. I think it's a myth for and by true believers.

KB

The low pressure of the legendary Rigby is no myth my friend. Count me among the true believers

Because on a good day you can pick up a RSM in 416 Rigby for $1000 and own one of the best safari style rifles around. Also its a dream to reload and just plain shoots great with pretty much anything you run through it. I had a 416 Rem shot great but it can't hold a candle to carrying that 416 Rigby in the Elk woods that I hunt. I'm sure I'll develope the same fondness for my 450-400 double.

Brad

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
The low pressure of the legendary Rigby is no myth my friend. Count me among the true believers

Yea, in this Alaska heat, I've been running my 458 WM at about the fabled Rigby pressure, with 350gr bullets at about 2200 fps. Works good, but of course I'm cautious and use only fresh ammo, handloaded, to avoid some of that stuff with the clumped powder. Beats those hot, high pressure 45-70 loads every time.

And, besides, it's much better cool factor to say I'm hauling around a 458, rather than a lowly Guide Gun. After a while it becomes difficult to actually say forty-five-seventy out loud.

So, you see, I know exactly what you mean.

KB

Not to mention that Harry Selby carried one when he was Ruark's PH.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
In a phrase? Romancing the round! That's the reason I have a 404 Jeffery (soon to be two 404 jeffery rifles!) Just as good a reason as any I know.

Romance ?? You mean - like dating a bimbo with inflated fake tits? I always figured more than a handful was a waste?

I can understand the 404, but not the 416 Rigby, but I don't want to waste the words explaining.

KB

No, not a bimbo with big fake tits but rather a classic beauty, insert your favorite. I'll say Raquel Welch

For me is was two things. A dream soon to be a plan (still working it as I keep doing mountain hunts instead while I am younger and fit) and what I thought was a bargain at a Houston gunshow 5 years ago. I stumbled onto a mint Dakota 416 Rigby for $3500, I offered $3000 and it was mine. A very early gun that is put together well and shoots very well too. I am hooked and still trying to get a buffalo hunt organized.

I suspect one of the reasons the 416 is popular is Jack O'Conner used and liked the cartridge and had a beautiful M17 Enfield custom that was one of his favorite dangerous game rifles. Whatever his faults Jack made a lasting impression with his writings and a lot of us who read those words years ago remembered and can now afford one of our own.

Jerry Liles

When I started to look at the African rifles for Buffalo, I settled on the .416 Rem and enjoyed loading and shooting it. Then, my son decided he might go with me, this required another rifle. I found a very good deal on a .416 Rigby in Ruger #1 Tropical and snatched it up. I shot it for a few monthe and loaded it like the Remington and was quite happy with it. One day I decided to see what I could do and worked my way up the ladder and discovered a new world for the round. From 2400 fps on up to 2700 for the the 370 grain North Forks I was working with. If you like that sort of thing, give it a try, the .416 Rigby is as good as they say it is, and then some. No wonder it got the name, it deserved it. Good shooting.

Why???? Because it was there, where I was at
the right time and place. Price was right too.

Like Boxhead, I stumbled into a new Dakota 76
Travler in 416 Rigby being liquidated to settle
someone's debt. Their loss==my gain....

I didn't care, The rifle works great.
The "ego" enhancement factor is supurb along with plenty of tits.
Great campfire conversatin when you pull one of those big rounds from your belt. Everyone at the table goes "Holy S#@t". No Recoil????

Those little 400gr .416 solids will go through a
Honda engine block like you won't believe and come out the other end of the Honda.

Try one sometime, you'll like it. Like Mikey and his cereal.

Good hunting, Shoot straight,
Tetonka

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

everyone wants to try and squeeze their cartridges into a smaller action. "Could someone please explain this phenomenon?"

Because the shorter/smaller actions were made for them, and they fit and function like they are supposed to. Tight is nice. Blame it on the popularity of the 308, where we discovered that short can be good too. Shorten the stroke, increase the dwell time, shoot more bullets.

KB

add the mauser m03 to the list of guns avail in .404 jeff.... ive droooled on the 1's at www.canyonsportingarms.com right rusty???

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
In a phrase? Romancing the round! That's the reason I have a 404 Jeffery (soon to be two 404 jeffery rifles!) Just as good a reason as any I know.

Romance ?? You mean - like dating a bimbo with inflated fake tits? I always figured more than a handful was a waste?

I can understand the 404, but not the 416 Rigby, but I don't want to waste the words explaining.

KB

I don't get the romance thing either. .375 H&H is a case in point, I have owned many and still have a couple but then I discovered the .375 Wby, using H4350 and 300gr bullets 2,800fps is a breeze. Seems like a better hammer to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Scotch Bonnet:
I discovered the .375 Wby, using H4350 and 300gr bullets 2,800fps is a breeze. Seems like a better hammer to me.

That's amazing. I had no idea that merely "improving" the 375 could produce that much velocity. Lately, I've been figuring a way to slow mine down.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by Scotch Bonnet:
I discovered the .375 Wby, using H4350 and 300gr bullets 2,800fps is a breeze. Seems like a better hammer to me.

That's amazing. I had no idea that merely "improving" the 375 could produce that much velocity. Lately, I've been figuring a way to slow mine down.

KB

No slowing it down for me.

Rem Mod 798 with a 26" bbl re-chambered from .375 H&H, 87gr H4350 and 300gr bullets, produces 2,800fps with no pressure signs. What's not to like?

Nostalgia. Same reason I still shoot a 375 H&H instead of the new 375 Ruger. I'm not knocking the new rounds they just don't have the appeal to me. The classics will serve me well I expect and I enjoy walking in the footsteps, so to speak, of the old greats with time proven equipment. Anyway, just my $0.02.

quote:

Why is the .416 Rigby so popular? Simple! It may the finest big game cartridge ever invented for a magazine rifle.

Pretty well sums it up for me.

Hey Scotch

How much/how many head of game have you killed with that magic wand..... just curious/I'm an old guy here with some game kills on various continents behind me....maybe more than you would think I have.....
Guess I ought to put my real name out here if I ask questions of fellow members...
Best,
Paul melton

Performance in a decently priced rifle. 350 gr Barnes X at 2800+ fps makes big, deep holes and quick work on game.

quote:

Originally posted by Scotch Bonnet:
No slowing it down for me.

Rem Mod 798 with a 26" bbl re-chambered from .375 H&H, 87gr H4350 and 300gr bullets, produces 2,800fps with no pressure signs. What's not to like?

Could be at least a couple of things to not like, but first it probably depends on whether one is shooting at a critter that's trying to get ya, or maybe something way out there.

If shooting at less dangerous stuff, not so far away, or just for fun - recoil is not to like.

2300 fps is plenty fast for my use, usually.

Also, making the case fatter up front will change the feeding habits. I'm sure my rifle will only hold three down of the improved case. It will probably still fed OK, but I wouldn't know for sure until I tried it.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Perhaps there is something to know that just isn't obvious. It's a mystery to me why the 416 Rigby is as popular as it is.

Could someone please explain this phenomenon?

KB

Simple. Because it's a fuckin' wonderful calibre.

some calibres just work beyond their mathmatical expectations and the 416 Rigby is one of them.

(IMO) others that fall into that same catagory are the 375 H&H, 404 & 500 Jeffery and also a few others.

I reckon some at least must agree with me because all those calibres have well and truly stood the test of time!

Steve, I think you summed this up nicely. I will also add that is just fuckin cool! Who wouldn't get some thrill out of walking the woods and fields with the cartridge favored by Harry Selby and many others. Call me a romantic if you will, but I think there is a lot of appeal to carrying an artifact of history that is well proven and still performs almost a hundered years later. Ergo the 30-06, the Colt 1911, and the ka-bar.

375er

What's not to love? Performance, low pressures, smooth feeding, and nostalgia/romance all in one package? And now factory rifles!

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I think this low pressure thing is not a true statment, about the Rigby. I think it's a myth for and by true believers. The 458 WM and 416 Taylor seem to work fine in African heat.

KB

With today's powders, I think you are absolutely correct as far as safe pressures go in factory loads. However, you can't argue against the fact that the 416 Rigby operates at very, very low pressures, which has to be considered a bonus.

Truth be told, the reason as was pointed out earlier, is Harry Selby as recorded by Robert Rourak. The 416 Rigby is one of a group of calibers that will do a marvalous job of handling dangerous game. 416 rigby, 416 Remmington, 404 Jeffery, 458 WM and Lott plus a plethora of double rifles chamberings, it's like blond, brunette, redhead. They are all great. Actually I assume they are great as I only have actual experience with a 375 H&H and a 404J on buffalo. They both worked fine. If the 416 rigby blows your skirt up great, if not pick the one that does.

I worried, fretted, studied, and worried some more before buying a RSM is 416 Rigby. I settled on the 416 Rigby for all the reasons listed above plus one - when hunting where elephant roam, I wanted a little more than a 375. Very happy with it and hope one day to take an elephant with it. My standard load is a 400 gr TBBC at 2500 fps. Works good on buffalo. Loaned her out a while back to a buddy who shot Aussie Water Buffs with her using Hdy 400 gr factory fodder. They worked great also.

I looked on the Hodgdon data site, and the loads for the 416 Rigby seem to be running around 43,500 CUP, which is a little lower than the site shows for the 6.5x55, 7x57, and 8x57.

Surprisingly, there are several loads which max out close to 43,500 CUP or less for the 458WM.

I don't know where to look for reliable data on the 416 Taylor, but I suspect there are plenty of low pressure, decent velocity loads for it too.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Sure, I can see low and moderate pressure being a bonus. That's why I don't load my 458 to max.

BTW, I'm not necessarily arguing with anyone. I'm enjoying the discussion.

Cheers,
KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Perhaps there is something to know that just isn't obvious. It's a mystery to me why the 416 Rigby is as popular as it is.

Could someone please explain this phenomenon?

KB

My answer? Because C-Z has tapped into the "professional small boy" complex (PHC) where blue-collar guys can join in with heroes of pukka sahib / colonial grandeur days of yore, toting a rifle like tiger-shooting, rogue elephant/rhino/etc. death dealing Selbys and man-eater remedying Corbetts did. Others with white-collar incomes can "play" at their income levels (regardless of C-Z and Ruger) with actual Rigby or Holland & Holland offerings without stooping, but nevertheless play the same game.

I have a rifle in .416 Rigby, a CZ Safari Magnum because I WANTED ONE. The small boy inside my 50-something body still rejoices.

2 cents