Whatâ€™s the latest Winchester/Browning news???

30 June 2007, 17:28

GaryVA

I have only heard that the parent company will restart the production of the rifle when the current union contract expires. I don't believe that will be too long down the road.

IIRC, the machine equipment at the old plant was replaced/refurbed over 10yrs ago when the company was geven a $$ incentive to stay. I'd heard that much of the equipment was considered in need of repair or replacement by the time they shut things down.

I suspect they will be up and going some place(s) in the world before too long (years) and probably w/ brand new production equipment. I'd also think they would market the rifle as a "Winchester M-70" regardless who they have make it.

GVA

30 June 2007, 19:27

jeffeosso

winchester's old equipment was auctioned off a year ago

01 July 2007, 19:43

Unit5A

I guess I would have to ask myself, if it didn't sell well enough before, why would it come back out as the same; regardless of who made it?
Unless somehow it was much less expensive in order to compete better...?

01 July 2007, 22:16

congomike

IMO if Browning does start manufacturing the M-70, in Japan, they will have a winner. If you look at the quality of the last couple of years of Winchester manufacture you will notice it was pretty bad. You can read on the forums here, about misaligned scope mount holes, poor fitting and bedding, etc.....The Japan made lever actions, like the 1892, 1895 and the Hi-Wall are very nicely done. The fit and finish is far above what Winchester was putting out.
One other thought, and many, many companies do it, is DO NOT LIST SOMETHING YOU DON'T, OR WON'T, PRODUCE. An example of this was that Wincehster listed the .416 Rigby as being available from their custom shop. I called to see about ordering one and was told they weren't going to produce it. I mentioned that it was still on the website, and the person said they would update it sometime in the future. And who can forget the Remington 45-70 double!!!!
I guess I am just not that concerned as to who makes, or where, a product is made. I AM concerned that when I pay good money for something that I get what I paid for. The last M-70 stock design fit me well and I am hoping that they make it the same way. It is an easy, and fairly inexpensive, way for me to think about building a .404.

03 July 2007, 17:55

Snellstrom

quote:
Posted 01 July 2007 18:43
I guess I would have to ask myself, if it didn't sell well enough before, why would it come back out as the same; regardless of who made it?
Unless somehow it was much less expensive in order to compete better...?

I personnaly don't think it was lack of sales but deteriorating product quality, poor management and piss poor morale on the workers part. I think if you can agree that these were enough to put Winchester under you can also see that if the same product were produced in another location using workers who gave a damn and management that had their act together then the Model 70 product could very well be a success again. I too am fond of the Model 70's and although I've never owned or even handled one that had the troubles that Congo alluded to I heard plenty of people complain about it. All the ones I've owned I am real happy with and would continue to buy more.
Several years ago the direction Winchester was headed was very apparent. On several occasions when ordering Win parts I became so frustrated dealing with those folks that I could scream. If you didn't know exactly what you wanted by cat# they couldn't or wouldn't help at all, everyone I spoke with was abrasive, condescending and completely "put out" by having to deal with customers. Thats not how you run a business for long.
Consequently I found out that I could order all the same Winchester parts I was looking for through the NICE folks at Browning in Utah and they were extremely helpful as a matter of fact they would help me go through all kinds of options and end up getting just what I wanted and they would input the order from there and I'd get the same stuff as I was trying to get from Win. in Conn.
The products are winners the people working at and running Winchester is what put them under.

I for one am anxiuos to see the product for sale again and like Congo I hope it is the same folks that are turning out the 1895's.

03 July 2007, 18:46

Unit5A

quote:
Originally posted by Snellstrom:
quote:
Posted 01 July 2007 18:43
I guess I would have to ask myself, if it didn't sell well enough before, why would it come back out as the same; regardless of who made it?
Unless somehow it was much less expensive in order to compete better...?

I personnaly don't think it was lack of sales but deteriorating product quality, poor management and piss poor morale on the workers part. I think if you can agree that these were enough to put Winchester under you can also see that if the same product were produced in another location using workers who gave a damn and management that had their act together then the Model 70 product could very well be a success again. I too am fond of the Model 70's and although I've never owned or even handled one that had the troubles that Congo alluded to I heard plenty of people complain about it. All the ones I've owned I am real happy with and would continue to buy more.
Several years ago the direction Winchester was headed was very apparent. On several occasions when ordering Win parts I became so frustrated dealing with those folks that I could scream. If you didn't know exactly what you wanted by cat# they couldn't or wouldn't help at all, everyone I spoke with was abrasive, condescending and completely "put out" by having to deal with customers. Thats not how you run a business for long.
Consequently I found out that I could order all the same Winchester parts I was looking for through the NICE folks at Browning in Utah and they were extremely helpful as a matter of fact they would help me go through all kinds of options and end up getting just what I wanted and they would input the order from there and I'd get the same stuff as I was trying to get from Win. in Conn.
The products are winners the people working at and running Winchester is what put them under.

I for one am anxiuos to see the product for sale again and like Congo I hope it is the same folks that are turning out the 1895's.

Well, I hope that whatever people want, it happens. I do own a Win M70 and have nothing against them really, though the wooden stock did crack on mine behind/below the bolt handle; I also have a couple of Brownings too.

By the way, I have written Browning twice (emails) in the past about a question I have on an older model A-bolt Medallion I own in 30-06, and have never received an answer from them. It's been almost a year now since I tried last though, but wouldn't mind trying again. Is it possible for you to let me know what email address, or the Utah contact you used so I could try again? A PM would be find if you want, and if it is not too much trouble for you. Thanks, and take care.

04 July 2007, 07:03

Snellstrom

Unit 5a let me take a look in my notes and see what number I was calling the Browning people at they were very very helpful and friendly every time they picked up the phone.
I may have time tomorrow to look it up.

05 July 2007, 23:03

Unit5A

quote:
Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Unit 5a let me take a look in my notes and see what number I was calling the Browning people at they were very very helpful and friendly every time they picked up the phone.
I may have time tomorrow to look it up.

Thanks. I appreciate that when you have time.
Take care.

05 July 2007, 23:10

Snowwolfe

Good time to be buying Winchesters. Except for the larger bores .375 and up the prices are back to what they were selling for before Win annonced their demise.

06 July 2007, 03:57

katiesguns

The winchester rep at the NRA show stated they needed a year and half to start production.I ask straight out if they going to be built in Japan. He said he couldn't say where but definitely not Japan. Lets hope Belgium.

06 July 2007, 04:05

500grains

China?

06 July 2007, 09:21

tomo577

browning only builds their very finest (and most expensive) guns in Belgium.

there will be no winchesters built in Belgium unless you are willing to pay $5,000.00 for a mod 70

and with that stupid safety they deserved what they got.... out of business. good riddance !

06 July 2007, 09:27

luv2safari

quote:
Originally posted by katiesguns:
The winchester rep at the NRA show stated they needed a year and half to start production.I ask straight out if they going to be built in Japan. He said he couldn't say where but definitely not Japan. Lets hope Belgium.

I remember when Browning A-5s went to Japan from Belgium. The warrenty repairs fell to almost nothing. The Belgian guns were turning into absolute crap in their last years. Even our direct buy Browning rep admitted it.

06 July 2007, 09:29

luv2safari

quote:
Originally posted by tomo577:
browning only builds their very finest (and most expensive) guns in Belgium.

there will be no winchesters built in Belgium unless you are willing to pay $5,000.00 for a mod 70

and with that stupid safety they deserved what they got.... out of business. good riddance !

Why would you care? Why do we care what you care?

06 July 2007, 09:44

Idaho Sharpshooter

luv2,

why do you care if Tomo cares? Why should we care if you care, or that you are concerned/upset that Tomo has an opinion? This is a forum, a place for the open and free exchange of ideas and opinions. The deal is to (hopefully) disagree with the message, not savage the messenger. Personal attacks on internet website posters are a sign of someone who may be a little, shall we say, immature...?
Recent history supports Tomo's assessment. Nobody disagreed with what he said.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

06 July 2007, 10:01

luv2safari

Rich,

I don't care.

Lighten up; it was in good fun. Maybe I should have used a wink, however.

Lectures have always bored me.

06 July 2007, 11:00

JAL

I don't care either, but tomo577's little dig at the Win safety would have likely drawn flack from many people. Not me though.

06 July 2007, 14:55

Wink

The Browning/Winchester rep at the Rambouillet Show told me they would be made in Portugal. Some Browning over and under shotguns are already made there.

08 July 2007, 09:41

Idaho Sharpshooter

luv2safari,

just a good-natured jab back at you...hope you took it as a "funnin" not seriously.

Rich
DRSS

08 July 2007, 09:45

Moose-Hunter

I'm betting they'll (Winchester model 70s, that is) be mass-produced in a plant in S.C., USA and be on display for the 2008 SHOT show.

08 July 2007, 17:42

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Moose-Hunter:
I'm betting they'll (Winchester model 70s, that is) be mass-produced in a plant in S.C., USA and be on display for the 2008 SHOT show.

man, now that is what I think is a good bet, even odds.. .i wouldn't bet against it!!

"stupid safety" ...LMFAO... again, that insight ... anyone ever seen a new custom mauser rifle without saide safety? yep, must be a "Stupid safety"

08 July 2007, 23:20

PRDATOR

quote:
Originally posted by Moose-Hunter:
I'm betting they'll (Winchester model 70s, that is) be mass-produced in a plant in S.C., USA and be on display for the 2008 SHOT show.

OH man lets hope so!! I will say that is not the first time I have heard that!!!!

09 July 2007, 08:58

Idaho Sharpshooter

just re-reading Tomo's dig at the M70 safety, does anyone here work one faster that the old Ruger tang safety? Didn't think so.

Rich
DRSS

09 July 2007, 14:28

JAL

I had a Ruger tang safety and also a ND. Mind you I was young and stupid once.

The thing I found with a tang safety and a lame brain is that it's "there" . IE whether on or off, at a quick feel it could be either.

The new Ruger and Win is "here" for on and "there" for off. Now only Brno's fool me.

PS. No one was injured in the ND in a safe direction. My mate thought s**t was trumps though.

09 July 2007, 20:41

Idaho Sharpshooter

If the wing safety is so superior, why don't DRs come with them. Make it a 98-style, drill a hole in it, and have it flip from right to up and use it as a peep? DR/Shotgunning is instinctive, you don't have time to fart around. Nor with bolt rifles...except with vertical or horizontal wing-type safeties. Not puffing myself up, but I have extensive hunting experience with truly dangerous game: the kind that packs an AK or SKS, and there's a reason serious rifles don't have the wing safeties...you generally don't have time to think...you just react!
Just my thoughts, don't get your panties in a bunch.

Rich
DRSS

09 July 2007, 21:32

jeffeosso

I don't prefer tang safeies...

09 July 2007, 21:39

boom stick

a wise person once said a safety is not a switch its between the ears...

09 July 2007, 23:47

buckeyeshooter

Why wouldn't the model 70 go into the same type of production (by Browning) that the Winchester 1895, 1885 and 92 are in now? Build 500 per year with upgraded features and sell them at a premium price (like $1500.00). It is working for them now and the low production would hold the high retail price (and large profit margin) of the product. If I were king that's how i would do it.

09 July 2007, 23:50

465H&H

I don't know what all the flap is about concerning safeties. I have two old style Rugers with tang safeties and four Pre-64 Mod 70's and I have had no trouble with using any of them on DG. But then I can chew gum and walk at the same time.

465H&H

10 July 2007, 03:09

tiggertate

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
China?

I heard North Korea. They give up nukes and get to make Model 70s.

10 July 2007, 06:51

Big Bore Boar Hunter

Oh boy, I can't believe I am going to post about the M70 safety (you could substitute the Ruger MKII if it makes you warm and fuzzy), but here we go. The "superior" mystique of the M70 comes from a few areas and here they go....

1) Familiarity (kinda acts like the safety on a '03 springfield.. People liked what they know.

2) You can open the bolt or lock the bolt with the safety still on. Something that if remington did, they would have a near perfect rifle. Thankfully Sako still allows you to do this.

3) Positive firing pin lock. Especially if you want to bash game over the head with your rifle without it discharging.

4) Darn quiet. Having had an A-bolt with a tang, I was oft surprised how loud that ball detent was when going from Safe mode to kill mode.

Other than that, I guess its a matter of personal preference. I miss the quality Mod 70's that were produced in the early 90's, but when the company failed to redo the machinery, the quality suffered. I have a 270 win classic with Boss, a 375 Safari express, and a 458 Safari express and yet I hunt with a Sako -06 or a Sako 375 and occasionally a 350 rem mag in a 673 guide gun.

John

10 July 2007, 07:35

Teat Hound

I hope we see them improve the product, no matter where they are made, at the very least. If we can keep production in the U.S., that would be even better.

Times change, I guess.

10 July 2007, 12:55

JAL

quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
and I have had no trouble with using any of them on DG. But then I can chew gum and walk at the same time.

465H&H

I do admire a man that tempts fate.
Or are you all done in Africa?

10 July 2007, 21:24

Dave Bush

I think Winchester failed because for years they have been turning out junk. I say we should let the Model 70 rest in peace!

Dave

10 July 2007, 21:45

fla3006

I've also heard from fairly reliable sources that the M70 will be produced in South Carolina as soon as the old USRAC contracts and obligations expire.

Tomo577 makes a good point about production in Belgium. To produce a M70 or FN Deluxe in Belgium would probably cost the consumer north of $2000. Something of the same quality as the FN Deluxe Sporter or Browning Safari would cost even more. Old FNs selling today for a few hundred dollars are pretty good bargains.

11 July 2007, 06:22

465H&H

quote:
Originally posted by JAL:
quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
and I have had no trouble with using any of them on DG. But then I can chew gum and walk at the same time.

465H&H

I do admire a man that tempts fate.
Or are you all done in Africa?

There is no fate to tempt. You just need to be familiar with your rifle through a lot of use. As for tang safeties,the best British double rifles all use them and I have never heard anyone complain about them. Also I am booked for two elephant bulls again next February in Zim.

For Idaho Sharpshooter, they tang maybe slightly faster but either is plenty fast enough to disengage as you mount your rifle. So, the additional speed is really a non-issue IMHO.

465H&H