The Accurate Reloading Forums
470 Capstick
25 July 2021, 07:50
chuck375470 Capstick
I'm surprised I don't see more people shooting them. I just missed out on a Model 70 Big 5 rifle in 470 Capstick about 8 years ago. If I hadn't I wouldn't have my 500 Jeffery. Seems like it should hit a bit harder than 458 Lott (larger bullet diameter, a bit more speed). Wondering why.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
25 July 2021, 08:43
ScanosI had one built on a BRNO 602 Action with a Pacnor barrel. It handles great and holds 5 down. It is easier on the shoulder than my .500 Jeffery. It was an easy conversion from .375 H&H. It needed very little work to get it to feed.
25 July 2021, 13:52
buckeyeshooterI have a Winchester Custom African Express in 470 Capstick. It was only offered in the catalog a single year. This is an upgrade over the Big 5 and Safari Express offerings and several have told me that I have the only one ever made. Don't know if it is true because I have not been able to get a reply from anyone who has records. But, it is a beautiful rifle most think is a Dakota.
25 July 2021, 18:49
chuck375Congrats to you both! I love my 500 Jeffery but have always lusted after a 470 Capstick.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
25 July 2021, 23:24
jeffeossowinchester ruined the 470 capstick with overbore barrels...
there's certainly more than 1 example.
my 470 and 476 are a bit better, and feed easier
25 July 2021, 23:45
Heym SR20In the bush what does a 470 Capstick do that the 458 Lott cannot do?
25 July 2021, 23:58
chuck375Hits a little harder, what does a 458 Lott do that a 458 Win Mag won't do?
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
26 July 2021, 01:16
boom stickJeffeosso’s 475 and 476 are awesome!!!
I would chose those over the Capstick and hade done so.
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
winchester ruined the 470 capstick with overbore barrels...
there's certainly more than 1 example.
my 470 and 476 are a bit better, and feed easier
26 July 2021, 03:16
surefire7quote:
Originally posted by Heym SR20:
In the bush what does a 470 Capstick do that the 458 Lott cannot do?
I own two of the Big 5 in 470 Capstick. I am not a reloader so, the 458 Lott serves me better, and my Dakota Safari 458 Lott is my choice (8.5lbs.) over the Capstick. If I reloaded, I might have taken the 470 to Africa, but as it is, I now hunt with my Lott and 404 Jeffery instead.
27 July 2021, 03:37
chuck375If you ever want to let one of those go, I may know a buyer
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
28 July 2021, 07:55
surefire7quote:
Originally posted by chuck375:
If you ever want to let one of those go, I may know a buyer
You have a pm.
30 July 2021, 05:41
gunslinger55Interesting is it ballistically equal to a .470 Moro?
White Mountains Arizona
30 July 2021, 18:20
chuck375I think the spec is a 500g bullet at 2400 fps
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
30 July 2021, 20:09
ddsipequote:
Originally posted by chuck375:
I'm surprised I don't see more people shooting them. I just missed out on a Model 70 Big 5 rifle in 470 Capstick about 8 years ago. If I hadn't I wouldn't have my 500 Jeffery. Seems like it should hit a bit harder than 458 Lott (larger bullet diameter, a bit more speed). Wondering why.
I have a 470 Capstick for sale. Check your PMs
We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
--Winston Churchill
"Oh, nothing Mom, just pounding primers with a hammer ..."
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.
31 July 2021, 01:19
257 Robertsquote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
I have a Winchester Custom African Express in 470 Capstick. It was only offered in the catalog a single year. This is an upgrade over the Big 5 and Safari Express offerings and several have told me that I have the only one ever made. Don't know if it is true because I have not been able to get a reply from anyone who has records. But, it is a beautiful rifle most think is a Dakota.
I've got a Winchester "Custom Express" in 470 Capstick. Built in 1993 by the custom shop. Its the only one I've ever seen like it.
Its MUCH heavier that the "Big 5" or the "Safari Express" series rifles.
05 August 2021, 07:24
buckeyeshooterquote:
Originally posted by 257 Roberts:
quote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
I have a Winchester Custom African Express in 470 Capstick. It was only offered in the catalog a single year. This is an upgrade over the Big 5 and Safari Express offerings and several have told me that I have the only one ever made. Don't know if it is true because I have not been able to get a reply from anyone who has records. But, it is a beautiful rifle most think is a Dakota.
I've got a Winchester "Custom Express" in 470 Capstick. Built in 1993 by the custom shop. Its the only one I've ever seen like it.
Its MUCH heavier that the "Big 5" or the "Safari Express" series rifles.
I wondered if anyone had done it that way, as the Custom Shop claimed they would build anything, the chambering could be ordered by anyone. By the way, I say claimed, because I attempted to order a 416 Rigby from the custom shop and they declined the order.
05 August 2021, 07:44
BaxterBquote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by 257 Roberts:
quote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
I have a Winchester Custom African Express in 470 Capstick. It was only offered in the catalog a single year. This is an upgrade over the Big 5 and Safari Express offerings and several have told me that I have the only one ever made. Don't know if it is true because I have not been able to get a reply from anyone who has records. But, it is a beautiful rifle most think is a Dakota.
I've got a Winchester "Custom Express" in 470 Capstick. Built in 1993 by the custom shop. Its the only one I've ever seen like it.
Its MUCH heavier that the "Big 5" or the "Safari Express" series rifles.
I wondered if anyone had done it that way, as the Custom Shop claimed they would build anything, the chambering could be ordered by anyone. By the way, I say claimed, because I attempted to order a 416 Rigby from the custom shop and they declined the order.
The 416 Rigby was actually published in the catalog at one time. Had a part number too. As I remember so did the Lott.
I called them to verify the Rigby and they said it was a 'publishing error." I said, "even the part number?" She didn't think that was funny.
05 August 2021, 19:33
DArcy_Echols_CoI received a phone call from an Engineer that worked in the custom shop many years ago that wanted to sell me a current production Model 70 barreled action that was chambered for 416 Rigby. The time frame is a bit fuzzy as I'm not sure if this call occurred during or after the Custom shop folded in New Haven.
It was supposed to have all the proper proof marks on the barrel and the receiver to legitimize its existence. I'm sure I was never sent any pics. I believe he wanted $4000 for the barreled action which seemed reasonable but I had as much use for that barreled action as a fish needs a bicycle.
I was told it had been fired and was "functional". I was also aware that a couple of Model 70's had been built over the years by other gunsmiths on the Model 70. Al Biesen being one of them. At least one of these was on a Pre-64 or so the story goes.
Where it wound up was is anybody's guess.
The 470 Capstick suffered feeding issues from day one, meaning more then one would not feed a single round out of the magazine. I had a client and a good friend of his that both owned custom shop rifles chambered for the Capstick and returned them to the custom shop multiple times to correct this problem, This issue was never resolved those rifles went down the road.
At that time I received a one or two calls from owners that had the very same issues and wanted to know if I could fix them. As I was neck deep in other work I declined. Being fair to Winchester I believe one of the problems was caused by the A-Square Lion Load ammunition which had a very large lead frontal area that would deform when run into the existing geometry of the feed ramp on the those select Model 70's chambered for the Capstick.
Had they thought of changing the follower all would have been good I'm sure.
05 August 2021, 20:57
eezridrI had two Model 70's customized (375 and a 416 Rem). In the work I added a Sunneyhill drop box magazine included in the new custom wood stock.
I began having with the cartridges stove piping upon cycling the action.I was using the same magazine spring and follower than was in the original Model 70. Was told it would work.
Well not exactly at least in a heavier recoiling rifle.
The bottom of the magazine spring that slipped into the ears / sleeve floor plate would not stay in a position toward the rear of the floor plate. It would slide forward. When it slid forward perhaps 1/2" ( as far as it could go in the floor plate indentation it would create an pressure not compatible with feeding the cartridges. I looked everywhere for a spring that was long enough to fill the bottom of the floor plate so it would not move.
Ended up having a small plate welded to the bottom cavity of the floor plate filling the void with a little lip that held captive the spring in the correct position.
Actually reached out to Sunny Hill on the issue.
They were aware. Seems like they would have something in instructions on a fix or shorten the floor plate cavity to match the spring length.
Never an feeding issue since.
quote:
Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I received a phone call from an Engineer that worked in the custom shop many years ago that wanted to sell me a current production Model 70 barreled action that was chambered for 416 Rigby. The time frame is a bit fuzzy as I'm not sure if this call occurred during or after the Custom shop folded in New Haven.
It was supposed to have all the proper proof marks on the barrel and the receiver to legitimize its existence. I'm sure I was never sent any pics. I believe he wanted $4000 for the barreled action which seemed reasonable but I had as much use for that barreled action as a fish needs a bicycle.
I was told it had been fired and was "functional". I was also aware that a couple of Model 70's had been built over the years by other gunsmiths on the Model 70. Al Biesen being one of them. At least one of these was on a Pre-64 or so the story goes.
Where it wound up was is anybody's guess.
The 470 Capstick suffered feeding issues from day one, meaning more then one would not feed a single round out of the magazine. I had a client and a good friend of his that both owned custom shop rifles chambered for the Capstick and returned them to the custom shop multiple times to correct this problem, This issue was never resolved those rifles went down the road.
At that time I received a one or two calls from owners that had the very same issues and wanted to know if I could fix them. As I was neck deep in other work I declined. Being fair to Winchester I believe one of the problems was caused by the A-Square Lion Load ammunition which had a very large lead frontal area that would deform when run into the existing geometry of the feed ramp on the those select Model 70's chambered for the Capstick.
Had they thought of changing the follower all would have been good I'm sure.
05 August 2021, 21:25
BaxterBSee page 41 for the Rigby:
https://www.winchesterguns.com...tingarms-catalog.pdfLooks like they were at least trying to make it happen...
05 August 2021, 21:58
BiebsI've had rifles in most all of the big-bore calibers, but was never interested in the Capstick. No factory ammunition, few components, variations in bore diameter, and limited rifle production in the this caliber made it a poor choice in my eyes. Plus, it doesn't do anything that several other popular calibers meet or exceed.
06 August 2021, 01:02
dgr416I shot a custom model 70 in 470 capstick in Alaska . It has broken 4 stocks and every scope put on it .I shot it twice enough for me .I like the 416 rem mag way better and can shoot it well !
06 August 2021, 02:53
DavidReedI had a chance to buy one from a local shop when USRAC was offering the Model 70 Big 5 rifle series. This was right before we became awash in good .458 Lott brass and other options to make Capstick brass so I passed on the rifle.
06 August 2021, 03:22
BiebsI love those big clunky A-Square rifles. They're retro-cool. :-)
06 August 2021, 06:48
gunslinger55Interesting. Not sure why those had feeding issues. I’ll stick with my .470 double no feeding issues there
If I came across one I might buy it though just because
White Mountains Arizona
07 August 2021, 23:50
AtkinsonMy Capstick was on a Winchester Enfield and it fed just fine..The only down side on it was that in a 45 cal. I didnt feel like I needed more, and sold the Capstick..A good handloaded 458 Win suited me, but I ended up hunting with a Lott and loaded it down to just a little more than the Win..I believe the Lott with a 500 gr. Woodleigh or 550 gr. Woodleigh at 2250 or 2100 to be ideal for all that walks..All that said I mostly used the 416 Rem and 404 with the 450 gr. woodleigh and found it ideal also, with much less recoil...Bottom line all the big bores are about the same as far as I could tell..
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
08 August 2021, 13:49
buckeyeshooterquote:
Originally posted by BaxterB:
quote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by 257 Roberts:
quote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
I have a Winchester Custom African Express in 470 Capstick. It was only offered in the catalog a single year. This is an upgrade over the Big 5 and Safari Express offerings and several have told me that I have the only one ever made. Don't know if it is true because I have not been able to get a reply from anyone who has records. But, it is a beautiful rifle most think is a Dakota.
I've got a Winchester "Custom Express" in 470 Capstick. Built in 1993 by the custom shop. Its the only one I've ever seen like it.
Its MUCH heavier that the "Big 5" or the "Safari Express" series rifles.
I wondered if anyone had done it that way, as the Custom Shop claimed they would build anything, the chambering could be ordered by anyone. By the way, I say claimed, because I attempted to order a 416 Rigby from the custom shop and they declined the order.
The 416 Rigby was actually published in the catalog at one time. Had a part number too. As I remember so did the Lott.
I called them to verify the Rigby and they said it was a 'publishing error." I said, "even the part number?" She didn't think that was funny.
Yep, my experience was I called in the order from the catalog and got a call back a couple days later that they would not do it. Pretty bad that you put it in the catalog with a part number then decline to make it.
15 August 2021, 21:58
seantI’ve got Winchester custom shop model 70s in 416 Rigby, 416 Remington and 458 Lott. Other than my 416 Rigby, I’ve never seen another one. I think they are pretty rare.
16 August 2021, 17:46
jeffeossoquote:
Originally posted by seant:
I’ve got Winchester custom shop model 70s in 416 Rigby, 416 Remington and 458 Lott. Other than my 416 Rigby, I’ve never seen another one. I think they are pretty rare.
according to rumor, your riby is 1 of 2 actually built
28 August 2021, 03:38
AtkinsonWith todays shortages of brass, powder, primers I think Id pick up a 458, punch it out to the Lott and load it down a bit say 2200, 2250 wih a 500 gr bullet soft and solid...And figure on shooting a lot of std 458 ammo in it, at least for fun saving the Lott for hunting..Have the option of a non wildcat is smart these days..for what its worth advise
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
