The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Is the 416 Ruger going to make it?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| one of us |
I was glad to see the 416 Ruger when it came out but it has not set the world on fire with sales.I hope to see it in more guns but who else will chamber it?There is a small market for the 416s but its a winner as far as a Dangerous Game Cartridge.I have seen the ammo and brass but not a single gun in a store.I have seen a few for sale on the internet.Its a bargin in the big bore world.The gun under $1000 and the ammo under $100 plus being stainless and having a tough stock is a great thing.There is a need for it in Alaska but else where it is not popular.I think the market is kinda pooped out right now also.We have bought and bought almost everything we want .I hope the 416 Ruger stays around .I think a reduced recoil 350 gr load at 2400 fps would be a help and some more stores carring it.Its a tough knockabout rifle that can handle anything weather or game wise.Only time will tell. | ||
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| One of Us |
Not sure where you got your data, but I thought just recently it was reported that more 416Rugers were sold in the last two years than 416Rigbys were sold in the last 100 years. I also thought it was just recently reported that 416Rugers were up in demand with the custom gunmakers. If anything, seems like Ruger is trying to keep up with the demand. And this time of the year, after most all last year production is sold, and the current years production has yet to be shipped, one would expect NOT to see too many popular rifles on the shelf. The cartridge itself is head and shoulders above any of the older traditionals, even my beloved 416Remington cannot hold a candle to the 416Ruger. From a design standpoint, it is superior in just about every measureable aspect. I doubt it is going away anytime soon. Best  | |||
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Does the 416 Dakota, remington, Taylor, weatherby, ultra, marlin, or 500/416 nitro have a chance? Heck does the right have a chance, against the Jeffery? How many 300 xxx magnums really have a chance? In other words, they all have a chance. Vote with your wallet. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Easy to say, but that dont make it true. I think the fans of the 404J make a more convincing argument as an alternative to the great Rigby. I have had the same observation, seen quite a few 375Rugers new and a lot more trade ins. But dont think I have seen a single 416 Ruger. As for being practical for Alaska, I think that would describe a 375 way more than a 416. And for a reduced load, thats the 375. Not only do they not offer a reduced load, but all the loads are Superformance. | |||
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| One of Us |
I haven't seen a single 416 Ruger in town, used or new. Not sure if that means they are spoken for as soon as they hit the floor or if they are ordered or what....but I also have seen several 375's both new and used, usually at the same places. All Alaskans though, I saw 2 "used" Africans, but they had some problems in shipping, like a front sight being knocked off and having to be repaired. Bass Pro chose to sell those as "used" since they did have to be repaired. Good deal, they were like 75$ off the new price, unfired, and one at least had a new front sight from NECG! If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Saying that, I still want to see a wood stocked 416! Or I'd also consider buying a 416 Alaskan and putting it on a wood stock, I love wood/SS If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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It will make it because it will easily fit into a standard length action, and any standard length action can be converted, without too much fuss. Regards S&F | |||
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| One of Us |
I think by all measures the 416 Ruger has been a failure and the 375 Ruger is fading fast. | |||
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| one of us |
I am all for the intoduction of a wildcat cartridge but it should get come about in a well thought of manner.If for example,you've been shooting and reloading a particular cartridge for some time and are very familiar with it and think there is something about it that could be improved like reducing the pressure slightly. | |||
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Ideally, a new design should offer some significant performance advantage - not necessarily more power but at least fill a nitch. There is no shortage of excellent 40 caliber DG rounds and I don't see any gaps that need filling. Maybe some kind of Lapua scenario, but for DG; I count 6 of them. The Rigby and Jeffery both have the added appeal of 100 years of tradition. The only gap, I see today is over 50 caliber. Here there are some interesting competing designs for bolts and a few standby's for break open guns yet nothing adopted or offered by the major builders. My preference would be something in 550 to 577 range without need of muzzle brake or rebated rims. With 577 sharing bullets with the Nitro Express getting my vote. | |||
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After talking with a number of African PH's, Alaskan guides and custom gunbuilders at the SCI show in Reno I will dissagree with Geoff. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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As the ultimate tomato stake? You betcha! | |||
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| Moderator |
you do? by what measures are those? the same used for the 505 gibbs, 416 rigby, and 500 jeffery? by comparing SALES of the 375 ruger and 416 ruger, and comparing them to those fine old rounds, the ruger is triple platinum in sales, while the 505, 416 rigby, and 500 jeffrey have yet to break gold.. even with the headstart. geoff, your bias is before your opinions ... if you take out the CZ 550 sales, the 416 rigby is deader than a doornail ... except for RUGER sales ... of course, all these ludite deathnells where sounded over the WSM and RUM lines ... and STILL of the best selling rounds ... there's room for all rounds, even the 270 win opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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If gun and ammo manufacturers had to rely on sales only to folks who live in PA or Mass not only would the 416 and 375 Rugers not make it but so would about everything larger than 30-30. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Definitely an uphill battle. I tend to take a long term view of these things, and I would guess that it will not be a success when all is said and done. But I have been wrong before! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Well I hope it makes it as I just traded a 375 H&H for one. WOODY Everyone is allowed an opinion, even if its wrong. | |||
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One more round that will be interesting to watch is the 450 Rigby. I think one can argue it has a slight design edge over the Lott where 1. it might feed better with flat nose solids and 2. operates at lower pressure. The ammo looks good (only seen pictures) and it has a GREAT name. After study of pictures in wiki, the Dakota version looks like a better design with better body taper and more reasonable shoulder angle, but there is that name. I think the Dakota is good as dead. What do I know? Success or failure is not necessarily based on the last 0.001 of design perfection, but emotion. IMHO. I just find it hard to get all worked up over a 416 Ruger when I already have a Rigby, but; I could go for a 404J. Winchester are you listening? Sadly, the RSM is gone. Now, you can get out hammer & nails and secure that coffin with Lott and Jeff offerings. | |||
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I think the 416 Ruger is one of the best big game calibers introduced .I just hope it catches on with other combesides Ruger.I have seen a bunch of 375 Rugers but no 416 Rugers.I have a bunch of 416 rem mags .I wanted a tang safety 416 and the 416 ruger fits right into my old Ruger 77 7 mag as a remake. | |||
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one of us |
I agree, but I don't think it has a real chance of surviving. Consider this: for two decades preceding the introduction of the Ruger a full range of rifles have been available in 416 Rem and 416 Rigby. This gave everyone who wanted or needed a 416 an ample chance to buy one, so the only buyers of the new Ruger are true "big-bore" gun nuts(small market) and buyers who are new to the big bore market(another small market). Couple this with the fact that it was introduced during a global recession that sees the cost of big game hunting go up due to fuel prices. Fewer hunters are able to consider these hunts due to the loss of "easy money" due to the housing correction. And lastly, Ruger does not offer it in a traditional(wood stocked) platform. It is a great cartridge, but it has a lot going against it. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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| <Mike McGuire> |
Probably the biggest enemy of the 416 Ruger is the 375 Ruger. | ||
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But there is more than one source for 416 Rem brass, albeit somewhat irregular and unreliable. What if Hornady kisses off? The 416 Ruger is dead meat. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I'm feeling a lot better about my 416 Taylor, assuming the 458 WM cases don't dry up! ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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| One of Us |
I went around and around on what 416 to buy, consider the 416 Ruger, CZ 416 Rigby and the 416 Rem M70. I did not consider the Ruger RSM 416 Rigby as though a fine rifle it is just a bit to "fat" for my tastes. In the end I went with a New Haven 416 Rem M70. The M70 just felt really good on my hands, better than the other two. I think the Ruger round is a fine one but I just do not see it sticking around long term. | |||
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| Moderator |
alf, i had written a much longer rply .. but we'll start at the first two factual inaccuracies, and leave the rest for rubbish ... remington has NEVER stopped chambering rifles in 416 rem, they are special order ... just like a 416 rigby in its initial peeriod ... and has never stopped offering ammo, which can't be said for the 416 rigby ... you'll try and spin it.. but facts are, the 416 remington is still going very strong.... and midways sells HUNDREDS of 416 taylor rechambered barrels a year ... you telling me these aren't being made into 416 taylors, which are now obviated by the 416 ruger? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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alf..
yes, remington has NEVER dropped the 416, .. nicely put, your positioning is misleading.. remington has never dropped the ammo, nor stopped making them. plain and simple opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
The 416 Ruger has all the odds against it. A late start against all the others that are already floating around. All of them will be inherited or sold again. A rifle is never yours permanantly ... only for a little while. Then it changes hands. Warrior | |||
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| Moderator |
same thing could be said for the 458 lott .. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Ain't it the truth. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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| One of Us |
I went to Cabela's today. I saw CZ's in 375 H&H, and 416 Rigby. I did not see any Rugers in 375 or 416 Ruger. I did not see any 700's in anything bigger than 375 H&H. Same with Winchester. It is a very thin slice of the sales pie. CZ is making a living on big bore rifles. They had no ammunition in either big ruger caliber. Lots of 416 Rigby. Gosh, they had more 470 NE than 416 Remington. Rich | |||
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One of Us |
Has anyone chronographed handloads in the .416 Ruger yet ? Can they achieve claimed velocity ? | |||
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| one of us |
Yes they do. And accuracy is good as well. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I remember more than a decade ago a gun rag said the 416's were done and all who wanted one had one already. I since have bought 3. Two Rigby's and now a Ruger. I hope they are all around in another 20 years. Just in case I might stockpile some brass. WOODY Everyone is allowed an opinion, even if its wrong. | |||
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One of Us |
. Amen to that . The 375 Ruger fading fast . NOT in Alaska .. I can,t wait to get my lunch hooks on a 416 Ruget Alaskan . If only I could stop having to buy things that burn diesel . Nitro Cellulose is funner . .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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| Moderator |
rich reports that the 375 and 416 ruger far outstrip 375 hh and 416 rigby... leaving no ammo or guns on the shelves for the ruger], and leaving the HH and rigby, in CZs, unsold
opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Is the 416 Ruger going to make it? Only if Ruger supports it. They threw it out there in a short barrel, with a recycled used tire stock and expected it to sell. If they want it to sell they need to put it in some nice rifles. Right now with what they are offering, Ruger could care less. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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| one of us |
Most people don't want something of quality or don't know what it is.They just want a cheap price and something that looks in fashion-like black rubber and a stainless barrel.I don't know what age group would make up for most of their sales-that might say something. | |||
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