Can someone post some pictures of the new design of the North Fork Solids and Cup Point solids? I know they have changed but North Fork has not updated it's web site.

Is this "North Fork Bullets" what you're looking for?

No Judge. Apparently they have changed the ogive. I think these are pictures of the old bullets.

How about these?



From several years ago.

Andy

Here you go… Pulled from Page 44 of the 416-458-50 SS-50 B&M Series Cartridges/Rifles Thread…

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
RIP--Our NEW NORTH FORK FPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Introducing the NEW North Fork Nose Profile!!!









Nose projection, meplat, profile, seating depth, everything is perfect for the MDM and the B&Ms, zero issues, all feed and function 100% in all three Winchester Actions. Also, take note, very nice crimp groove in the new profile. I will be shooting tomorrow.

Michael

I didn't find a picture of the new CPS bullet but they'll have the same profile.

Thanks Cappy.

They are on sale at Midway

To All,

Just to let everyone know, we have changed the solids (Both FPS and CPS) that are primarily for bolt guns. The new solids are still bore riders but now have a different nose profile. They also a have crimp groove to allow crimping to the correct CIP cartridge AOL. Currently the design has NOT changed for the .410, .468 (special order only), .474. These are primarily double rifle guns where feeding is not a primary issue.

Being said, if your bolt rifle feeds and shoots the "old" style, the performance has not changed. We even have a supply of them that we have reduced the price significantly. Please call us if you would like to know what we have available.

We are currently working on the website and will be revamping much of it, that is the delay in getting it out there. We have not taken this change lightly and have been in the process of change for the last 4 years but needed to test everything first and in every caliber.

Regards,
John
North Fork Technologies
www.northforkbullets.com

John,

I may be wrong but I seem to recollect a discussion a few years ago that you were redesigning the .510 caliber SS bullets to be bore ridding same as your CPS and FPS bullets.

Am I incorrect in this recollection? Has the .510 caliber SS bullets been dropped, as they're not listed on your website? Or has it become a back burner issue?

Thanks,

Welcome Dave.

John:

I have worked up loads using the old style cup point solids for my 9.3X74R double. Can I use the same load data for the new design cup point solids?

John,


1. The new bullets are shorter. Good idea for cases like the .458 Winchester.

2. Crimping looks easier. But I used about the sixth groove on old .458 solids. I gather I can still do that, and not use the so-called crimping groove.

3. Do you think there would be any different POI with the old and new designs at 100 yards? I doubt it.

In a double, I like the old style North Fork solids with the truncated cone a bit better. I called North Fork yesterday and ordered a box of 286 grain solids for my 9.3X74R as well as a box of .375 300 grain solids for my .375 flanged. I have some cup point solids for both guns as well. They are indeed on sale.

I have experimented with the North Fork and the CEB#13s and here is my take on this. The CEB#13s have very few driving bands so, if you have a case with a short neck like the 9,3X74R or the .375 flanged, the North Forks seem to work better. The bore riding design of the North Forks gives you more purchase on the case neck and gives you more latitude on seating depth. With the CEB solids, the bottom driving band sits below the neck of the case in both the 9,3 and .375. With a straight walled case or one with a long neck, either bullet would be an excellent choice. The CEB bullets seem to generate less pressure than the North Forks but the North Forks seem to generate less pressure that a normal cup and core bullet.

Graf & Sons have .375 flanged Norma brass in stock so I also picked up 50 more rounds bringing my little cache up to 200 rounds of brass. That should be a lifetime supply. I wouldn't be surprised if Hornady starts making a flanged .375 and if so, the flanged .375 will take off like a scalded dog.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
...the flanged .375 will take off like a scalded dog.

Hope so!

Hi Dave:

You can use the same load data for the new design. We have found that the new design does not affect the accuracy of the load, at least with our rifles. In general, the new design is shorter for the larger bores .416 and up and is equal or slightly longer for .375 and below.

Hi Indy:
You can crimp where it makes sense for your gun. The crimping groove was added just to make reloading easier for those who feel unsafe without a defined crimp groove that gives the correct OAL. For doubles, this can be anywhere within reason. No point of aim change except the BC is better. We have now gone from a brick to a rock.


For pressure generation, the both CEB and NF are "Equal". I say this as some of our calibers have less pressure while others, CEB does. But compared to Woodleigh, Hornady, Nosler, etc. both NF and CEB are worlds better. If you value your DR and want to shoot it and keep it healthly for future generaions, I would high recommend you take consideration of the above facts. I think Michael and others who have done independent testing has shown everyone what NF has known for years and has been quietly preaching.

Regards,
John
North Fork Technologies
www.northforkbullets.com

Thanks John. Great customer service. Looking forward to receiving the bullets. At some point in the future, I am probably going to need some for my 500/.416 as well. The 500/.416 has a very long neck so the new and old style North Forks as well as the CEB solids would all work equally well. North Forks, CEB solids, great bullets. Michael and I just can't agree on the non cons though. I would rather stick to the cup point solids but that is just my personal preference. Don't be hollerin at me Michael

Hi Capoward,

The .510 SS is still in the plans. And like all plans, the .510 time to release changed due to the fact that more people wanted a .257 and our customers over the pond wanted 8mm (that is .323 for us). We figured this was enough work and addition for one year. Most people now who use of .510, love the CPS, and don't see a need for the SS. It is designed and it will be a bore rider (like the .474, .410, .348, .458 flat points (45/70 and those crazy suckers who put them in .458 Lotts for pigs). Unfortunately, the large calibers just don't move as readily has the small stuff. Not enough Michaels in the world. So it just came down to money and ROI. As an option we give to anyone, if you want to help buy the dies, then we can move forward at an excellerated rate. The design is complete but languishing on my CAD system.

Regards,
John
North Fork Technologies
www.northforkbullets.com

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Thanks John. Great customer service. Looking forward to receiving the bullets. At some point in the future, I am probably going to need some for my 500/.416 as well. The 500/.416 has a very long neck so the new and old style North Forks as well as the CEB solids would all work equally well. North Forks, CEB solids, great bullets. Michael and I just can't agree on the non cons though. I would rather stick to the cup point solids but that is just my personal preference. Don't be hollerin at me Michael

Dave





No man, just kidding! We agree on most things. And hey, I have shelves FULL of .500 and .474 North Fork PROPER CPES! CPES???? HEH..... Cup Point Expanding Solid!!!!!!!!!

And, I used one of those 425 gr North Fork CPES on my biggest, best, ever, Australian buffalo just a few weeks ago. No bullet recovery, busted straight through both shoulders! One round!

And then, my son Matthew shot his huge bodied Australian bull with TWO 375 gr North Fork CPES through the shoulders, and one of those new solids that exited! Hammer Down!





Not only on these bulls, but the boys did a lot of bigger cows with both 50 B&M Super Short and 475 B&M Super Short, loaded with North Fork CPES bullets! Very effective as well!

But, I do love the new Nose Profile of the FPS. First class all the way--and it does in fact provide better terminal performance. Now for POI--Point Of Impact-- IF--Big IF, North Fork wants to LISTEN TO MICHAEL--North Fork will take the new nose profile Solids--take the same exact bullet, and not add WEIGHT to it, and do the Hollow Point Cavity for the CPES--keeping BOTH FPS/CPES the same length and bearing surface, they will both be the EXACT POI at 50 yards-_DG Range. CPS=same bullet as the FPS. Don't add weight to make weight equal! Bearing surface/length is more important to POI than weight, and no loss of performance! Now, we will see how close North Fork is really paying attention to detail!
LOL

Michael

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

Now for POI--Point Of Impact-- IF--Big IF, North Fork wants to LISTEN TO MICHAEL--North Fork will take the new nose profile Solids--take the same exact bullet, and not add WEIGHT to it, and do the Hollow Point Cavity for the CPES--keeping BOTH FPS/CPES the same length and bearing surface, they will both be the EXACT POI at 50 yards-_DG Range. CPS=same bullet as the FPS. Don't add weight to make weight equal! Bearing surface/length is more important to POI than weight, and no loss of performance! Now, we will see how close North Fork is really paying attention to detail!
LOL

Michael

NOOOOOOOOO! Don't listen to him John. Next he'll want you to put blades and plastic tips on the Cup Point Solids. Michael, some of us think our solids and our "softs" should weigh the same. I want NF solids and cup point solids of the same weight.

quote:

Michael, some of us think our solids and our "softs" should weigh the same.

Then you would be thinking--Wrong! You should be "Thinking" Same POI! Performance does not change!! And, you are only talking 25 grs or so difference.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Michael, some of us think our solids and our "softs" should weigh the same.

Then you would be thinking--Wrong! You should be "Thinking" Same POI! Performance does not change!! And, you are only talking 25 grs or so difference.

Michael, we're are just going to have to agree to disagree about this. I have never heard anyone say that the North Fork bullets of the same weight and caliber, softs, solids, and cup point solids, don't shoot to the same POI.

Here goes Michael again. Them southern boys just like their gums to flap.

Actually, Michael we are close to your thoughts. The newly design FPS and the CPS have the same front (non-B&M) and we use a cup drill instead of the original 90° drill. The depth of the drill has also increase to allow more opening (not to the same extent that we did with the B&M series though). We did try the deep drill with your bullets and the new FPS nose design the problem was did not roll over as well as what you experinced with your CPES. Those are damn fine picture perfect perfomance.

As Michael knows, we are interested in the best performance and we don't release anything until it is fully vetted and vetting in every caliber we want to make the change with. Thus, it took us so long with the FPS/CPS change - no we did not copy Michael and Michael saw a very early bullet and that was already 1 year into the process. Luckily, great minds think alike, and the conclusions were very much the same and thus the solid nose shape are very close to the same. He is just louder and really does not work much.

Now as far as same weight, we tend to agree more with Dave as far as loading goes. For each bullet caliber, type and weight, the solids have the same bearing surface thus the weight will be the driving factor in loads. Same weight of bullet, same load - very simple. If they were exactly the same with only the CPS having copper removed the would be a weight difference thus a need to adjust the load as POI would change - maybe not AOB (Angle of Buffalo) but we do have customers that are accuracy freaks even with big bores. Also people outside of AR (Most of our customers) are very afraid to try different weights that are not standard and not in published books (for good reasons). Point of experience is our 370gr .416 and 380gr .423. They do everything a 400gr will do and sometimes better depending upon the cartridge i.e 416 Rem Mag. Just like the 400 and 450gr .458 over the the 500gr. AR members lead the way, but change is slow to be accepted by the masses but at least there is change and us believers.

I cannot emphasize how much we appreciated Michaels work, dedication, and money even if he started the "break-em up" bullits. He puts his money where his mouth is then goes and proves it. Hard to argue. Does more than most even those in the business. Hell - just think in Hornady hired him, all hell would break lose besides freezing over, and then all of us other manufacturers would be in trouble. Besides he is one great guy to have a beer and a smoke with.

Regards,
John
North Fork Technologies

FWIW, my 2 cents, I agree with the Dave Bush/North Fork Philosophy of same weight soft and solid.
Too bad not all combos can be as sweet as the North Fork FPS and CPES combo.

John,

A comment I would like to make that also applies to Dan. Thank you for focusing on actually improving the performance of your bullets and not just marketing hype. In my opinion, that willingness to follow wherever the test data leads and make changes based on results, really separates you guys from the others.

I was a confirmed Barnes guy but when they went to the RN over the FN design realizing more bullets could be sold instead of catering to the market that really appreciated the performance, they lost me. Of course it's a business and sales are important. But for the guys that it really matters to, they will fix their rifle and shoot the best bullet, not some compromise for the guys that are too cheap to fix the cheap gun.

Again, thanks for being performance oriented. Hopefully, with guys like Michael getting the word out, actual performance of the bullet design will be the best marketing strategy after all.

Cheers,

Todd

quote:

Here goes Michael again. Them southern boys just like their gums to flap

John, gums flapping--My Ass!


OK, after the BBW#13 Solid was perfected, all the tweaks, all the testing, it was time for a "Trauma Inflicting" bullet. Extreme Trauma. When the BBW#13 NonCon was first designed and even spoke about, I told Dan to do nothing but take a BBW#13 Solid and put the HP Cavity in. I told Dan to go .400 deep, broach it with 6 blades, but to NOT INCREASE IT"S WEIGHT BY INCREASING IT"S LENGTH. I had a "theory" at the time that the exact same bullet as the BBW#13 Solid, only with an HP in it, would be the same POI--Point of Impact--as the Solid, because of bearing surface and length!

We proceed with the BBW#13 NonCon along those lines. Guess What? It is no longer theory, it was proven and is fact. If you look at each caliber in the BBW#13 Lineup, there is a Solid, and it's matching NonCon--they are the same bullet, one with a HP, the other a solid, and in every case, every caliber, every cartridge, ever tested, they are in the same hole at 50 yards, with the same exact LOAD. Difference? The NonCon weighs anything from 25-30 grs less until we get to the Ultra bores and then it is around 75 grs less. But both, SAME EXACT POI AT 50 Yds. DG Ranges.

To take that a step further, the NonCon being lighter ALWAYS runs less pressure, anything from 5000-7500 PSI. You can ALWAYS take the NonCon and run 1-2 grs more of the same load, and increase velocity. This raises the POI at 50 with the NonCon by 1/2 or so inch with most calibers/cartridges/rifles. Some slightly more, some slightly less.

How do I know all this? Because I have sent 1000s upon top of 1000s, on top of 1000s more down range from 9.3, 416, 458, 474, .500, .510 calibers. Many different cartridges. And, even .585 and .620 to lesser extent--always the same results!

Back to our North Forks! As we know, North Fork chooses to go Weight for Weight--FPS, CPS or CPES. This causes the CPES or CPS to be longer by some small bit to equal weight. I have several of these in .500 and .474 caliber designed by myself and John to work proper in the B&M Cartridges--and they do work perfectly as designed. FPS and CPES are not in the same POI with the same exact load. There is not much difference, and POI is not ever more than an inch or so off, but it is NOT THE SAME POI. Close, but not the same. The CPES being longer has more bearing surface, and ALWAYS has MORE PRESSURE than the FPS. By the same token as the NonCon has less pressure than the solid BBW#13, around 5000-7500 PSI on average. Therefore, it is the opposite of the BBW#13s, I have to reduce the charge for the CPES by 1-2 grs to equal pressures down to the FPS.

To give you an exact example look at my own 50 B&M with the 450 North Fork FPS and CPES.

450 North Fork FPS-Flat Point Solid--74/IMR 4198 2321 fps 57435 PSI

450 North Fork CPES-Cup Point Expanding Solid--74/IMR 4198 2343 fps 65549 PSI.

A difference of 8114 PSI--very little difference in velocity and of no consequence.

You Monkeys can do anything you want to do, and it is fine with me, does not effect me at all.

But, the next run of North Forks that I personally do for my rifles/cartridges, then North Fork will be instructed to take the FPS and put a CPES hole in it---DO NOT EQUAL WEIGHTS OF THE TWO, and send me my damned bullets--because they will be exact POI at 50 yards, because they will be the exact same bullet--bearing surface and length are more important to POI than weight. Weight Equals Pressure, the more weight, the more Pressures. CPES and BBW#13 NonCons do not follow conventional thinking, they like velocity, and with the CPES running less pressures, I can increase that velocity with the same "Bullet Body", and therefore increase terminal performance in the meantime without having a detrimental effect on POI between the two.

Got to get out the Box boys--this box has you contained, trapped, and strapped!

Now, after all this rant of mine, I absolutely must say this, in the scheme of Dangerous Game hunting, Dangerous Game ranges-50 yard and in--then regardless of whether the weight is equal in the North Forks, or length and bearing surface equal, in the field it is of little consequence! Both ways, will be more than suitable for our quests. Weight for Weight will be close enough, and has been close enough with the North Forks to be of little consequence in the field. If it was a major problem, issue, then I would have changed my personal bullets immediately, but I have not done so. This is of a technical difference only.

I had a great conversation with Ken Buch yesterday, and this reminds me of some of the things we spoke about, concerning double rifles in particular. He confided in me that "Paper Targets" was going to be the death of him! LOL.......... He is spot on with this! Many of us, myself included, are serious about our rifles, bullets and accuracy, pressures and our terminal performance. I won't sacrifice terminal performance for anything at all, we know that. But in terms of double rifles and dangerous game in the field, what really is the difference in regulation of an inch or two at 50 yards? Will it cause you to miss that buffalo shoulder? No, it won't! I think Ken is right, we as Dangerous Game hunters sometimes go to the extreme with things, I am guilty, but it is in my nature and not much I can do about it, and sometimes you don't want me to do anything about it or we would still be shooting RN FMJs! Point is, after we get a decent good load, we should get off the paper and on a steel target or something similar and be shooting at 6 inch or so reactive targets to practice on for a Dangerous Game hunt, and not be chasing the paper target as much as we do. Something we should ponder on I think!


Michael

As to the similarities of the BBW#13 and the new North Fork Nose Profile, I first only saw the new North Fork profile, well after the BBW#13 was completed and tweaked. It would seem that North Fork was working along the same lines as us, but totally 100% independent. I was just more forthright with the design, as each of you knew each step of the way to get the BBW#13 where it is now, you watched it develop.

For the record--Both myself, North Fork, came up independently with the nose profiles of each BBW#13 Solid and the North Fork new profile. North Fork watched as the BBW#13 was being designed and tweaked, but was in the process on their own during this time as well, unknowing to myself.

quote:

Hell - just think in Hornady hired him, all hell would break lose besides freezing over, and then all of us other manufacturers would be in trouble. tu2 Besides he is one great guy to have a beer and a smoke with.

HA HA HA--F*****G HA---Hornady CANNOT afford me! AND--I do have some principles!



Michael

quote:

For pressure generation, the both CEB and NF are "Equal". I say this as some of our calibers have less pressure while others, CEB does. But compared to Woodleigh, Hornady, Nosler, etc. both NF and CEB are worlds better. If you value your DR and want to shoot it and keep it healthly for future generaions, I would high recommend you take consideration of the above facts. I think Michael and others who have done independent testing has shown everyone what NF has known for years and has been quietly preaching.

I thought I was finished, but wanted to address a thing or two from earlier.

What John says above--100% correct. There is no argument that can be made on this subject from the "others". North Fork and the BBW#13s are neck in neck in barrel strain, and in most areas of pressure related concerns, both producing LESS than anything on the market that we have ever tested, and that is everything of any consequence. These two designs give double rifle shooters what they have never had in the past, safe bullets--and SUPERIOR TERMINAL PERFORMANCE--on all counts! Gives us Bolt guys something we can take great advantage of, with OUR SUPERIOR strength of action, we get more Bang For the BUCK with the same bullet, at less pressure, therefore being able to increase that pressure to standards, therefore increasing terminal performance. There is no down side!



Michael

Michael,

You are right we all chase paper way too much. We are always worried about groups and regulation when it comes to doubles. You know how much I fussed over it. You are right when it comes to dangerous game you want the best bullet possible and a good functioning load be it for bolt or double. If your solid and soft hit 1 to 2 inches apart from the bench so what!
Everyone of us should stand flat footed no sticks or bench and shoot. Be it 25, 50 or 100 yards. If you can shoot good enough to see the difference in one or two inches doing this then more power to you. Now put the stress of the animal standing in front of you and the PH saying "Take It" "Take It NOW" and you have a whole different ball game. SHOOT ALOT and not off sticks or bench. Clay pigeons on a dirt pile work great.
Sorry lets go back to Terminals! CEBs and Northforks are both great bullets!

Sam

Well, I enjoy tweaking the loads, both North Fork and CEB, and even GSC.

Tweak them one way with a CEB soft and solid of same length and bearing surface but different weights,
tweak them another way with North Fork soft and solid of same weight but different length and bearing surface.

Some of the GSC combos have more extreme complications:
Like a 450-grain HV paired with a 570-grain FN.
You have to specify a custom .510" diameter for the 450-grainer (instead of .512") though the 570-grainer is .510" standard (or is that .509")?


But it is all good.
Especially for shooting clays offhand on the berm at 50 yards.

... And we could experiment with hollow-pointing/cup-pointing those North Fork FPS bullets in a lathe ourselves, eh?
Same length and bearing surface then, as Doc M likes.

RIP,

GSC makes a 500gr FN Solid for the 500 Jeffery, why wouldn't you pair it with the 450gr HV? Doesn't list where it falls in the .509"-.512" zone; as you note, have to specify .510" for both.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
RIP,

GSC makes a 500gr FN Solid for the 500 Jeffery, why wouldn't you pair it with the 450gr HV? Doesn't list where it falls in the .509"-.512" zone; as you note, have to specify .510" for both.

I ordered som 510'' 540 grs FN solids from GSC. They were .512'' .... Not good.... Just made a custom order of the discontinued 570 grs FN solids. Had to specify a .510 dia otherwise they would be made .512''. ... So pay attention when ordering ....

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
RIP,

GSC makes a 500gr FN Solid for the 500 Jeffery, why wouldn't you pair it with the 450gr HV? Doesn't list where it falls in the .509"-.512" zone; as you note, have to specify .510" for both.

Jim,
Because my primary like in .510-caliber GSC is the 570-grain FN that zips through 1-ton bovines from tail to tonsils and beyond.
I just settled for 450-grain HV because it was the only soft available when I ordered.

I see that buffalo got surprised on bullet diameter just like I did.

Yes, be very careful in getting your desired bullet diameter explicitly acknowledged by GSC if ordering from them.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
RIP,

GSC makes a 500gr FN Solid for the 500 Jeffery, why wouldn't you pair it with the 450gr HV? Doesn't list where it falls in the .509"-.512" zone; as you note, have to specify .510" for both.

Jim,
Because my primary like in .510-caliber GSC is the 570-grain FN that zips through 1-ton bovines from tail to tonsils and beyond.
I just settled for 450-grain HV because it was the only soft available when I ordered.

I see that buffalo got surprised on bullet diameter just like I did.

Yes, be very careful in getting your desired bullet diameter explicitly acknowledged by GSC if ordering from them.

10-4 Makes perfect sense in your 500 Mbogo!

Whatcha gonna use in your 500 Mbogo Short?

North Forks Boys--North Forks.

M

When bullets are ordered from GSC and it is a custom application, I ask for the barrel bore and groove diameters. We then deliver the appropriate bullet for that barrel. Do not try to second guess me by asking for a bullet diameter, GSC will decline to make the bullets. There is more than one diameter applicable to have the correct bullet than just the groove diameter of the barrel. If the way GSC makes bullets does not suit your thinking, do not order GSC bullets.

Heavens to Betsy Gerard.

No need to take your wanker out and piss in your customer's coffee cups, and tell them to go away.

It is acceptable these days to approach customers in a more gentle and cordial manner. I, like many others am interested in all the factors that affect bullet fit. In the absence of knowledge, we have to make our best guess of it.

If the specific scientific information is proprietary, that is fine; just say so.

Perhaps you might say: Customers, just send us your exact bore and groove diameters, and here is how you should measure those dimensions for our purposes. With that exact information GSC guarantees you will receive correct performance from our geschossen/bullets. Thank you for your interest, and than you for you patronage.

I believe an inventor and a craftsman have the right to be grumpy, short and rude; in their own shop with their own staff. The staff can vote with their feet, if they wish.

An adult, and a businessman does not have that luxury, unless of course, he wishes to chase all his customers away.

quote:

If the way GSC makes bullets does not suit your thinking, do not order GSC bullets.

Wow, thin skinned, uncivil and no words that I ever thought you would say Gerard. I am taken aback (a little bit, anyway).

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Wow, thin skinned, uncivil and no words that I ever thought you would say Gerard. I am taken aback (a little bit, anyway).

+1

You guys are right. Let me rephrase that.

When bullets are ordered from GSC and it is a custom application, I ask for the barrel bore and groove diameters. Customers, just send us your exact bore and groove diameters. The dimensions from the barrel maker or, if measured directly in front of the freebore/leade and again at the muzzle will be good. Measurements must be accurate to thee digits SAE or two digits metric. Measuring with a vernier caliper is not accurate enough.

We then deliver the appropriate bullet for that barrel. Do not try to second guess me by asking for a bullet diameter, GSC will decline to make the bullets. We will not make anything that we have tried and that does not work. If we have a bullet in production that we know is superior to the suggested bullet, we will not waste your money by producing an inferior bullet just to satisfy the demand. See: http://www.gsgroup.co.za/faqcustom.html

There is more than one diameter applicable to have the correct bullet than just the groove diameter of the barrel. If the way GSC makes bullets does not suit your thinking, do not order GSC bullets. The specific size and design information is proprietary and all GSC bullets are measured for diameter and roundness four times and checked twice for weight. This is done by two separate people. See under Bullet Design and Q&A: http://www.gsgroup.co.za/12about.html

Talk about GSC delivering 'wrong' bullet sizes have been going on for many years. I have stated in email to persons inquiring, and on forums, several times, that we guarantee our bullets to be within 0.005mm of size. Going from 0.510" to 0.512" is 0.0508mm and ten times the tolerance we would allow out the factory. So, when we deliver bullets that are a particular size and shape, it is because we want them to be that particular size and shape. However, the same people keep on 'complaining' about GSC sizes. So, if bullet design and experimenting is your bag, realise that your line of thinking may be different to ours and, possibly, you should use a manufacturer that does not second guess what you are trying to do.

Forgive me for calling a spade a !@#$%^& shovel, I should not have done that.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
North Forks Boys--North Forks.

M

I have a bunch of the new North Fork copper FP solids, 450-grain and 375-grain .500-caliber,
and North fork threw in a box of the old 450-grain ones, gratis, with my order, thanks, John.

I have a few of the old CPES in each weight, samples, thanks to Doc M of MIB.

I am going to load them first with H322 in the 12.7X68/49-10.
92 grains charge for 450-grain bullet.
96 grains charge for 375-grain bullet.
Will work up from there.
CPES being longer will take lower max charge.
New FPS being shorter than old FPS might be able to get higher max charge.

Planning to pair the North Fork 450-grain FPS with the high BC 430-grain CEB MTH. Both copper.

Planning to pair the copper North Fork 375-grain FPS with the brass CEB ESP Raptor (W350) 360-grainer (with tip).

I like copper FP solids in the .500-caliber rifle.
I like both brass and copper, higher BC, expanding bullets in the .500-caliber rifle.
Will add some of my own pics later.
Above pic by Doc M of MIB.

quote:

CPES being longer will take lower max charge.

Correct, in every case that is what I have found here.

quote:

New FPS being shorter than old FPS might be able to get higher max charge.

I concur, think that is true also, but have not tried it yet, RSI and myself and the PTs are in a big pissing match over the validity of PT 2, which I think is SHIT right now and not correct, and not matching anything I have done for years! So we are at it--HEH...... I have not had time, nor inclined to investigate that just yet but will at some point.

I LOVE THE NEW NOSE PROFILE---And regardless what anyone might say, it is an improvement, in terminal performance over the old nose profile, that ain't just for looks and being pretty. It is a huge improvement in depth of penetration, and actual stability at the very end of penetration, which has not been mentioned, but it is dead straight from beginning to end, nose dead straight forward. Sorta like another bullet we know about as well, I can't mention that on this particular thread, this is a North Fork thread you know!

Michael