quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Gotta chuck my .600Ok's for a Marlin Guide gun! NOT. -Rob

DRAT!

I better go get my 600 Overkill out of the trash and put my Marlin Guide Gun and XLR back in the safe


Good luck!
4 days to go ...

Thanks Boomie!!!

Take lots of pics, email them to me and Ill post them for you if you dont have the time.

I sure would like to see what an aluminum flat nose 600 bullet does to a wartie or an impala @ 3,000 fps

CCMDOC- Bring the Mighty Marlin. You never know but you may need it for a TENT PEG or a Lever to Change Tires with. They would be perfect for BABOONS though! Damn I wish I were coming with you! Best of Luck!-Rob

I have several 45-70's and really like to shoot them. After reading some of the articles and hearing some people claim that a 420gr bullet at 1900fps will out penetrate a 420gr bullet, both .458, going over 2300fps sort of scares me. It seems that if the slower bullet will out penetrate the faster one, I will have to quit shooting the 45-70.....imagine if a bullet rolled of my loading bench! Lower velocity = greater penetration...well is might just put a hole right through my concrete floor and maybe take out a sewer pipe, some phone lines, gas lines....heck, might even reach magma!!!!
All kidding aside, I don't really think you can change the laws of physics and to sort of paraphrase Dirty Harry.."A cartridge has got to know its limitations." Sorry, Clint.

My longest shot in africa was 175 yd. with a 450 marlin [300gr. nosler]-one dead baboon!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
CCMDOC- Bring the Mighty Marlin. You never know but you may need it for a TENT PEG or a Lever to Change Tires with. They would be perfect for BABOONS though! Damn I wish I were coming with you! Best of Luck!-Rob

Hmmm ... Baboons ... I would need to have one of thise "Rifleman" hoop levers installed and send it to you to rework the action to fire on closing the lever. THAT would "make a nice sandwich" (ya gotta be from NY in the 70s to know that reference).

Getting into a large troop of baboons with a fast shooting rifle is basically legalized murder incorporated. Your barrel will be warm and you'll be happy. The Baboons wont! Best use of a 45-70 I can think of. I'd load it down a mite though!-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
O' Lord, not this again.

Too Funny and I waste so much time with my 600s and bigger

The 45-70 is in my opinion best dangerous game cartridge around.
It will drop any D/G animal, it's the most fun to shoot and by far the best caliber for an inspiring hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by VinM:
The 45-70 is in my opinion best dangerous game cartridge around.
It will drop any D/G animal, it's the most fun to shoot and by far the best caliber for an inspiring hunt.

That just proves the old adage about opinions. Nice first post, you have definitely left everyone waiting with bated for your next epiphany.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by VinM:
The 45-70 is in my opinion best dangerous game cartridge around.
It will drop any D/G animal, it's the most fun to shoot and by far the best caliber for an inspiring hunt.

That just proves the old adage about opinions. Nice first post, you have definitely left everyone waiting with bated for your next epiphany.

Sorry if my post disturbed you.

This type of post always leaves me wondering.
I do not own, nor have any interest in owning a .45-70 Government chambered rifle but I have heard they do a yeomans job on dangerous African game with some of the heavier loads such as Garrett and/or Buffalo Boar ammunition.
I've only read this out of magazines but have never experienced it first or second hand. Is there some truth to this or is this pretty much a bunch of wishful thinking? I thought I'd seen a guy named Vince Something-or-Other who took all of the dangerous African species with a .45-70 Government and Garrett loads. Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought I'd seen that in some magazine. Let me know if you get the chance.

Thanks,

jfm

I don't know why you guys are still falling for this tired old joke.

The only clue you should need is the number of posts by the person making these claims. Ignore them and they'll go back to their masturbatory fantasies.

George

If people keep talking about .45-70 being an acceptable DG cartridge there's a chance somebody might decide for some even weaker chambering and go kill a thousand elephants with .275 Rigby or some such thing!

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Piss poor, your ass. You apparently have never seen a properly loaded 45-70 work on a large animal.

You got me there, I have neverr seen a "properly loaded" 45-70 used against a large animal of any sort, because all the people I hunt with are smarter than that

quote:

Originally posted by jackguthary:

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Piss poor, your ass. You apparently have never seen a properly loaded 45-70 work on a large animal.

You got me there, I have neverr seen a "properly loaded" 45-70 used against a large animal of any sort, because all the people I hunt with are smarter than that

Do some people put them in the magazine backwards?

Now that's funny!
Well I own several 45.70's and can tell you its ok for deer, pigs and black bear at ranges you don't need a tripod for getting proper elevation for bullet drop. All in all, I'd rather shoot a win mag or a lott and be done with it on DG.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Piss poor, your ass. You apparently have never seen a properly loaded 45-70 work on a large animal.

Well I have seen this and it was a rather pathetic joke. Water buffalo shot with a 45-70 using the Garrett loads versus water buffalo shot with 240gr Woodleigh PSP in a 300Win mag. Shots were placed through the lungs with both cartridges and the Win mag won on all counts. The truly pathetic part was the fact that neither of these bad boys could put a water buff down quickly and humanely with a double lung shot (even after two or three hits)!

In the same hunt another gentleman was using a 458 Win mag with solids. It worked about as well as the 300 Win mag, aka not so great.

ScottS--What you are really saying is that the 458 Win Mag with solids didn't slam dunk the buffalo, either.

FWIW, there are loads for the 45-70 that out penetrate the Garrett.

I read a article in some outdoor magazine many years back. The author was telling a tale told to him by his grandfather who hunted mountain lion using a 45-70. He said the bullets moved so slow when he shot a particular mountain lion in the chest, it turned to run and the bullet came out it's backside and hit him.
Maybe slow moving bullets do penetrate better ??

quote:

common sense tells me that with equal bullets, the faster cartridges should penetrate better.

Sometimes common sense isn't all it's cracked up to be.

sharpsguy,

quote:

ScottS--What you are really saying is that the 458 Win Mag with solids didn't slam dunk the buffalo, either.

Yes that is a true statement.

quote:

FWIW, there are loads for the 45-70 that out penetrate the Garrett.

This is irrelevant for the example I spoke of in my earlier post as the 45/70 achieved complete pass through (broadside). The 300 Win mag did not always make it through. The 458 Win mag with solids also achieved complete pass through.

Now in comparison, and to me the real benchmark, was a 500 A square loaded with 535 PSP at 2350 fps which floored several water buffalo with one shot in the chest each! There was ABSOLUTELY no comparison between the big 50 and any of the other three (300 Win mag, 45/70, or 458 Win mag), period! Only one of the 535 gr PSP exited, the others did not and expanded to between 1.125" and 1.25" in diameter. All the 535 gr PSP generated permanent wound channels you could literally put your arm through (for reference a beer can would have been a loose fit). The other three cartridges/loads were close to the diameter of a Quarter (about an inch). I believe there in lies the real difference, ie the size and severity of the permanent would channel.

A 45/70 simply CANNOT do this.

You Guys do know that ScottS has never hunted Big Game before dont you? Hes getting med resistant again and having delusions. If his lips are moving hes lying!
Did I get that right Scott?
Of course you can prove us all to be wrong by posting some pics of YOURSELF with the many Buff you have floored with your 500AHR.
Lets see em POSeur.-Rob

It's not the pass though bullets/cal going slow
that are best but some horsepower that damages
the quarry and dumps all of its higher energy
in the quarry.Knocking it down.
That 6gal heavy plastic pail of water that I
atomized with my 12GA fH with 600gr at 3000
is example. If same slug at factory 1200 fps, it would
punch 2 nice holes in and out, and not even knock
the locked on lid off. I see those here wanting bullets
that will pass though so that critters will bleeeeeeeed
to death in a 100 yds, but I ask them what is wrong with
instant devastating kills, and they say well the writers and
tv say that's how to do it. Silliness you know. Ed

ED- Most people dont understand the first thing about bullet performance objectives in animals and that there is a relationship between the need to first hit a vital area( understanding marksmanship and Anatomy),second adequate penetration and third expansion that is the real goal. When these three factors are all linked properly you get great performance. When any of them are compromised, you get mediocre results!
The 45-70 has adequate accuracy and can provide adequate penetration with select bullets. It just cant provide the energy dump with bullets that provide adequate penetration in big game. Can you kill them sure, but not reliably and not on the margins. The Lott, 450Ackley, 460 wby etc do all three. Thats why they are better.-Rob

Ed,

I concur 1000%! That is EXACTLY what kills 'em quick.

Rob,

How about these.

Trophy bison bull with 500 AHR


River buffalo with 500 A2



Two for one a water and a cape buffalo both with the 500 AHR.

Gee Scott- Pics of a trophy you scammed from the web? How about the usual ones IN AFRICA with you standing next to the BULLS! Betcha we wont see any on those will we SCOTT? -Rob

quote:

Hes getting med resistant again and having delusions

Rob I think I know who is on meds and becoming med resistant, and it ain't me.

Why must you always attack me? I find your behavior extremely funny on this thread as you attacked me and the AGREED with everything I has said. Funny and pathetic.

I am done talking to you, Rob. Have a great Labor day weekend, OK.

I have a marlin 45/70.
I must tell you, I love the darn thing.
I take it after Elk , but have never shot one with it.
However, when contemplting hunting say a grizly or an african DG animal,
I want a rifle, that will hit a bit harder at say 150 yards.
To me that is about the ideal distance.
I mean a decent shooter should be able to get a bullet in the vitals of any big game animal at that distance, and a round like a .375 H&H with a good 300 or 270 grain pointed bullet will have a lot of punch left at 150 yards.
I have not looked at the numbers but it seems to me a 45/70 will lose a heck of a lot of it's power awfully quickly.
I think if you get to about 50 yards it is a great choice for a grizly. and i am sure lots of big bears get taken that way.
But I would prefer to shoot mine at 100 to 150 yards. 50 yards leavs very little margin for error.
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
[snip]
However, when contemplting hunting say a grizly or an african DG animal,
I want a rifle, that will hit a bit harder at say 150 yards.
To me that is about the ideal distance.
I mean a decent shooter should be able to get a bullet in the vitals of any big game animal at that distance, and a round like a .375 H&H with a good 300 or 270 grain pointed bullet will have a lot of punch left at 150 yards.
I have not looked at the numbers but it seems to me a 45/70 will lose a heck of a lot of it's power awfully quickly.
I think if you get to about 50 yards it is a great choice for a grizly. and i am sure lots of big bears get taken that way.
But I would prefer to shoot mine at 100 to 150 yards. 50 yards leavs very little margin for error.
...tj3006

Plenty of guides like them lever guns and plenty don't. The only really definitive thing regarding human-bear encounters that lead to a dead human is one interesting statistic:

In human bear kills involving a firearm, the dead human is highly unlikely to have gotten off more than one shot IF ANY. That's the Wildlife Management people findings for North America. They'd know, they're the ones that have to go look every time a human gets killed.

On the 150 yard thing, with DG you have a sizable chance of not being able to pick the distance and/or timing of your shot. That's kinda why they are considered dangerous game, aye? It's an imperfect world. Don't count on getting what you prefer.

my two pence

Shooting at dangerous game with underpowered cartridges can be fatal to the shooter and also to bystanders.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Shooting at dangerous game with underpowered cartridges can be fatal to the shooter and also to bystanders.

But the interesting thing with human bear kills is that statistically it seems nearly irrelevant what cartridge the person got off their one shot with if they got off a shot at all before ceasing to be able to operate their firearm. .357Mag or .458WinMag, inertia and residual life force very well carries many a charging bear on to victory over the firearm wielding human even if the bear dies later. If one is in a position to pick their shots, lesser cartridges are often adequate. If one is facing a charge from short range (African DG or Bears), it very well can be irrelevant how big of a cannon one wields. Just a matter of slightly better odds, no guarantees.

Imperfect world and luck is part of life.

Dave Bush--Please check your PM.

ScottS- The reason I attack you is simple, YOUR a Lying TURD! Where are the pics of YOU and your Trophys? You cant post em cause they dont exist do they except in your drug induced imagination. I just basically KNOW your full of shit always have been and always will be. Others here might not know your HISTORY HERE on AR. I want to make sure everyone on this site knows you for who you are Scotty. No hard feelings! Lets just call it a DUTY. I look at it like INSECTICIDE.-Rob

Assuming the bullet can retain it's shape and weight and is still stabilized during penetration the same bullet at a higher velocity will penetrate better. If this wasn't true, a 458 win would out penetrate a 460 Weatherby, a 45-70 would out penetrate a 458 Win, and simply throwing the bullet (doing away with carrying that heavy rifle) would penetrate even better...



Chuck

I realize that you don't often get to pick your shooting distance.
My point being I would prefer a cartridge that will give the power to shoot at 150 yards.
With a 45/70, If i got a shot at a grizzly at 150 yards I would probably pass.
There just is to much power lost.
with a .338 win mag or a .375 H&H you have a lot of power left at 150 and I would feel much better about the shot.
...tj3006