I am having trouble getting the CEB 13 570 grain bullet to take a crimp. To get the base of the bullet even with the shoulder of the case, I am crimping the bullet on the last(bottom) driving band, with no luck. The bullet is loose. I load the 570 Barnes with no problem. Has anyone loaded this bullet in a Jeffrey? Or do I have to drop down to the 535 grain bullet to get it to work?

doubledown

Hmmmmmm? Trying to get the jest of this, might not have it right. Sounds like maybe you are trying to seat the bullet to far out. With only one of the top three bands inside the neck. Try going deeper, and crimping between the top band, and the second band. This will put the 2cd or middle band down in the neck for better neck tension, and I think you should be ok with that. This is what I do and not having any issues if I need a crimp at all. Most of my B&Ms do not crimp, I have to crimp the 500 MDM. Give that a try.

Michael

Michael, I will try that again tonight. But seating the bullet that deep will be taking up a lot of powder space, and put the base of the bullet well below the shoulder. I was a little thrown off as I can seat the Barnes out far without problem, the CEB was giving me fits. I will play with it some more tonight, thanks, Steve.

Steve

No man, don't worry about powder space, just mash it on in there it will be fine. It won't hurt at all the base being below the shoulder, 99% of mine are below the shoulder, so no worries. In fact, I really can't think of a cartridge I load that the bullets are not below the shoulder, unless the shoulder is half way down the case? You have a lot of driving bands on the barnes bullet, this holds in the neck. YOu have 3 top bands to give you neck tension on the BBW#13. While this may seem strange, it reduces your pressures greatly, and also increases your velocity with the same load, under almost all circumstances. Seat it deeper, I think that will solve the problem. If not, let me know in the morning!

You know, take two pills, call me in the morning, that sort of thing! HEH.......
Michael

The Jeffery is a short neck cart and large volume. You don't need extra powder room getting traditional velocities.

SEAT FIRST crimp later.

Michael, I'm all set now, thank you. Seating between the first and second bands did the trick. The instructions they send with the bullets should be updated for the big bores, as that is what started me down this road. Boomy I will chrono my loads this weekend and see where the CEBs fall velocity wise, thanks again, Steve

quote:

Originally posted by doubledown:
Michael, I'm all set now, thank you. Seating between the first and second bands did the trick. The instructions they send with the bullets should be updated for the big bores, as that is what started me down this road. Boomy I will chrono my loads this weekend and see where the CEBs fall velocity wise, thanks again, Steve

Steve

Excellent news! I thought that might do it and solve the issue! I am glad it did. Let us know how they shoot for you, and velocity. Will be interesting.

Michael

I just got back from the range, I put 25 rounds through the Jeffery. Ten of them were the CEB #13 570 grain that I deep seated (thanks Michael). Anyway, I found I am getting about 25-50fps over the Barnes Banded solids of the same weight, with the same powder charge. They were very accurate in my rifle, I pushed them from 2150fps up to 2500fps all went well. Penetration was extreme and recovered bullets look like new after traveling through 24" of new print and 26" of some of the toughest oak I have ever come across.


I just ordered some more CEBs in .500 non con, for the Beowulf, .475 non con for the Turnbull, and .375 for the H&H. Thanks again for the help, and all the work you guys do to make an awesome bullet.

Great results!
Thanks for the update.
The BBW #13 design is just amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by doubledown:
I just got back from the range, I put 25 rounds through the Jeffery. Ten of them were the CEB #13 570 grain that I deep seated (thanks Michael). Anyway, I found I am getting about 25-50fps over the Barnes Banded solids of the same weight, with the same powder charge. They were very accurate in my rifle, I pushed them from 2150fps up to 2500fps all went well. Penetration was extreme and recovered bullets look like new after traveling through 24" of new print and 26" of some of the toughest oak I have ever come across.


I just ordered some more CEBs in .500 non con, for the Beowulf, .475 non con for the Turnbull, and .375 for the H&H. Thanks again for the help, and all the work you guys do to make an awesome bullet.

Steve

EXCELLENT NEWS! Very very common to get more velocity with the same load with the BBW#13s than most anything else. Also produces the least pressures. The bands we have on those things turned out very good! Penetration is most incredible, and consistent from caliber to caliber, weight to weight of anything I have ever worked with. I am happy this works for you!

Hey, not sure that the .474s will work in your 475 turnbull? If it's a marlin I am sure they won't! I designed the length of the nose for the bolt guns! Maybe in an 1886? If they don't, Dan can sort some out for you, he knows the length of nose to mouth for the lever guns! They would be awesome in your levers!

Michael

If I recollect correctly, the 470 Turnbull is designed for the Marlin and the 475 Turnbull is designed for the Winchester.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
If I recollect correctly, the 470 Turnbull is designed for the Marlin and the 475 Turnbull is designed for the Winchester.

Thats right, I sent my 1895 45-70 GG to Turnbull just after Thanksgiving last year. Its getting converted to .470 Turnbull. They are saying another month. Only time will tell.

Steve

For sure then, these .474s for the B&Ms won't work in the turnbull. Nose is too long for the Marlin. Turnbull could get Dan to do some for his rifles if he wanted I am sure.

Or I can help you get some when you get it. Either way!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Steve

For sure then, these .474s for the B&Ms won't work in the turnbull. Nose is too long for the Marlin. Turnbull could get Dan to do some for his rifles if he wanted I am sure.

Or I can help you get some when you get it. Either way!

Michael

Im going to have to go with plan "B" then. I will return them for another flavor, no problem.

doubledown

Let me know how I can help out, happy to do so!

Michael

Micheal, thank you, I will take you up on that offer once I have the 470 in my hands and know what i need.

doubledown

No man, no thanks needed, glad to help out. Let me know when you get the rifle, we will go to work on some for you!

I got a really good start on the 475 B&M Super Short today with the new bullets too!

Michael

Guys,
Before you give up on using the current lighter weight .475 caliber CEB bullets with the 470 Turnbull cartridge or not…I recommend that Doug Turnbull be contacted to verify the basic case length of the 470 and 475 Turnbull cartridges as well as the recommended loaded overall length for each.

Reason I recommend this is that I seem to recollect the 470 Turnbull case being shorter than the 475 Turnbull case so that the identical Barnes bullets can be used in each.

Edit Added: I pulled this off of Turnbull's website:

quote:

The Marlin Model 1895 receiver is not large enough to handle the 475 Turnbull.
So to insure shooters using Marlin rifles were not left out. We developed a
slightly shorter version of the 475 Turnbull… the 470 Turnbull.

The 470 Turnbull rifle cartridge is simply a continuation of the original 475
Turnbull cartridge designed specifically for use in the Marlin Model 1895 action.

Still need to get the actual case lengths though.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Guys,
Before you give up on using the current lighter weight .475 caliber CEB bullets with the 470 Turnbull cartridge or not…I recommend that Doug Turnbull be contacted to verify the basic case length of the 470 and 475 Turnbull cartridges as well as the recommended loaded overall length for each.

Reason I recommend this is that I seem to recollect the 470 Turnbull case being shorter than the 475 Turnbull case so that the identical Barnes bullets can be used in each.

Edit Added: I pulled this off of Turnbull's website:

quote:

The Marlin Model 1895 receiver is not large enough to handle the 475 Turnbull.
So to insure shooters using Marlin rifles were not left out. We developed a
slightly shorter version of the 475 Turnbull… the 470 Turnbull.

The 470 Turnbull rifle cartridge is simply a continuation of the original 475
Turnbull cartridge designed specifically for use in the Marlin Model 1895 action.

Still need to get the actual case lengths though.

The case length is 2.05"

Maximum cartridge OAL 2.550"

Ok... I'm thinking the upper band is in the wrong position to accommodate use in the Marlin but Michael has the bullets so he san definitely say yea or nea.

I did a little measuring last night. With the 320 grain Super Short non con, I am coming up with 2.650" seated to the top driving band, its going to be too long like you said. I still don't have the rifle yet so I am just going by the numbers. It's too bad because that is one good looking bullet. I keep a couple scattered around on my work bench, my desk, in my pocket! It's like art to me.

doubledown, I am quite sure that we need to shorten the nose so that we work through the Marlins. Like I said, when you get your rifle and cases then we can sort out a bullet then.

I just finished up some data on the 475 B&M Super Short with the 350 BBW#13 and 320 BBW#13 NonCon, they are nice bullets, and they shoot great of course too. I will be doing terminals on those hopefully Saturday.

Michael