Seems like I've read a lot of negative comments about the 458 in a ruger #1 when it comes to recoil. Is the problem weight, stock design, or the rock hard factory bad?

stock design...pad is an easy fix

Paul, all of the above. 450-400, is my top comfort(fun) area for a #1.(or equivalent)

A #1/Lott, with my plinking load is fun.(2100fps/405gr)

Keith

Boomy, tell us about YOUR trigger time with the above rifle/caliber.

Keith

Keith,

He doesn't have any. His experience is limited to what he can pick up on the internet and magazines.

George

The problem is with the hard factory pad, otherwise recoil is about the same as other rifles of identical weight. #1's are muzzle heavy and a little extra weight in the butt helps balance and absorbs a little recoil. Nothing wrong with the stock design whatsoever.

shooting the 350 gr factory stuff makes it a pussycat... with the 510 gr full house loads, it can be uncomfortable... i have a galco slip-on recoil pad... not the prettiest add on/velco on, but very effective....the extra 3/4" added to the LOP makes it feel better also...

the ruger # 1 and the marlin guide gun are bad stock designs for recoil. they suffer from the same thing. the stock design is more for classic lines. i will be happy to shoot yours hog killer when i get to texas

I wish i really knew then I could change it. The pad is a simple fix and just done naturally. I can't really fault the stock fit as It is really comfortable,so must be the weight. I have never had a 458 so can't say for that calibre but the 9.3x74r,405Win,375H&H and the 450/400 are not pleasant for me in the least. Have yet to shoot the 450/400 as don't have any ammunition,but the other 3 are unpleasant with factory velocity loads. Maybe when I get scopes on all of them and put mercury reducers in they will be more pleasant. Had a 243 and a 30-06 in 1A's and they were fine, especally the 243.

quote:

boom stick: the ruger # 1 and the marlin guide gun are bad stock designs for recoil. they suffer from the same thing. the stock design is more for classic lines. i will be happy to shoot yours hog killer when i get to texas

You can shoot mine too, a Ruger #1 458 Lott and a Brno ZKK 458 Lott, both with Decelerator pads. You won't be able to tell any difference, altho I think the Ruger is a little more comfortable.

I agree the Ruger #1 is more comfortable than the Brno ZKK.

I'm Confused,Just how does someone who has never even shot a Ruger #1 have the temerity to advise ANYBODY as to what the correct fix is? Gee read all those posts and pretend your an expert! Seems to work these days too! I thought you needed some real experience with Big Bores to qualify as a advisor. Guess not huh? Bull CRAP beats experience everytime!Smacks of pure bullshit doesn't it? I have a Ruger No.1 in .458 Lott and it shoots just fine as is. Wear a Past Pad and suck it up dude! Make sure your able to differentiate the crap artists from the real experienced folks. It's not hard. Actually getting a No.1 to work properly isn't anywhere near as simple as the Morons would advise. It can be done and works but trust me the Morons don't know how. E-mail me if you want the correct answers.-Rob

I bought my first Ruger #1 in 458WM in 1976, and the 77 two years later...am I qualified? Sold the Liberty Model #1 to a collector the next year to finance my 460 Buhmiller purchase. The Ruger #1 kicked worse than the 460B. I love the rifles, but they just do not fit my face. My custom stocked ones have a bit less drop, and that has made a world of difference, recoil-wise.

JMHO

Rich
DRSS

quote:

I'm Confused,Just how does someone who has never even shot a Ruger #1 have the temerity to advise ANYBODY as to what the correct fix is? Gee read all those posts and pretend your an expert! Seems to work these days too! I thought you needed some real experience with Big Bores to qualify as a advisor. Guess not huh? Bull CRAP beats experience everytime!Smacks of pure bullshit doesn't it? I have a Ruger No.1 in .458 Lott and it shoots just fine as is. Wear a Past Pad and suck it up dude! Make sure your able to differentiate the crap artists from the real experienced folks. It's not hard. Actually getting a No.1 to work properly isn't anywhere near as simple as the Morons would advise. It can be done and works but trust me the Morons don't know how. E-mail me if you want the correct answers.-Rob

Pretty harsh on them aren't ya Rob!

i guess i did not post clearly...i meant that the changing of the recoil pad is an easy fix...not the fixing of the recoil problem. it does not take an expert to know that the design is not the best for recoil.

but i dont think rob cares about my inference but just likes to have the chance to take me to the woodshed again...i never said i was an expert rob. have a double scotch and find some other cause to make yourself feel better. i have posted to feel free to put me on ignore...

Boomstick- I'm not interested in educating you, but you should understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock design of a Ruger No.1 ( just how do you make that claim anyway, you've never even shot one) and a new recoil pad won't solve the problem anyway. The PROBLEM is lack of WEIGHT in BIG BORE CALIBERS. ( actually the same problem as the MARLIN has) and no pad in the world will help that unless its made of lead or contains a hyrdaulic shock absorber. Ever replace a pad on a finished rifle? It actually takes some skill to do it right. THE right answer is wear a Past pad or add a F990 stock Pad ( FWIW), mercury tubes(2) in the stock and a real good muzzel break. The Mercury Tubes and a efficient brake will take 90% of the sting out of a Ruger No.1. The PAD adds virtually nothing. I've shot a .577 NE, No. 1 built that way and it worked just fine.
Finally, when you actually own a real Big Bore, have reloaded for it and have some appreciation for those who actually know what it takes to make them work, then you'll have a modicum of respect. Till then Do-Do! ah- Yes, drink a double scotch and ponder my words of wisdom! Till then PUHLEEZE SPARE US.-Rob

again i did not imply the pad was the fix but an easy fix but that could have been taken from the way i worded it so your post was helpful.

if i was wrong about the stock design than it is great to have experts like you around to show the right path have a nice day

p.s. i am out of scotch so if you want me to have some scotch to ponder your wisdom please send some laphroig 10 year cask strengt...its damn yummy and i miss it.

Paul, I didn't have the .458 but I did have a No.1 in .416 Remington and I have had a bunch of No.1's in other calibers. It was not bad to shoot standing up but man, it was a real handful from the bench with full house loads. I finally traded it off. It's a combination of the pad, stock, and weight. I think they are really cool rifles but if I ever get another, I would not buy one in anything bigger than a .375 and I would probably go a bit smaller and get a 9,3X74. My all time personal favorite was a little 7X57. There is just no "give" to them. In the larger calibers, I think they just kick like mules!

Dave

Yes, the recoil problem with No.1's is mostly between the ears of the trigger yanker.

I have hunted from deer to water buffalo with Ruger No.1's, and done extensive playing with them in these chamberings: .338WinMag, .416Rigby, .458WinMag, .458Lott, 450NE, and 500A2.

I always use a slip-on pad over the hard, thin rubber butt pad that comes from the factory, to give me a just right LOP and some cushion.

Works great.

I have not cracked a single buttstock yet, whether walnut, laminate or B&C synthetic.

Truly another fine rifle from Ruger. Recoil is no worse than any other rifle of similar weight and chambering as long as it has a decent recoil pad.

RIP- We agree on this issue! The Ruger is a fine rifle and its stock design delivers its recoil in a straight back easily managed manner. I don't even think it's too light for a .458 Lott. I too have NEVER seen or had a RUGER stock crack. The best bang for the buck on these guns is a really well designed cylindrical muzzel break or better yet one machined into the barrel and band. Lotsa little holes work fantastically. This work wonders. Finally, very little beats a good PAST PAD. If I felt the need for a better recoil pad, I'd first make a new stock ( same design as the original), only, I'd widen the heel area to take more advantage of a F990 pad's ability to spread out the recoil over a larger area.
Damn fine guns for the Money! -Rob

I've had a ton of #1s, includeing a Rigby and 460 WBY. Hard to imagine anyone calling the Tropical light. In 375 its a bit lighter but the 416 and 458 barrels are super thick. Always a had a soft spot for them, till I get them in my hands.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
RIP- We agree on this issue!-Rob

Rob,
There are only two things we differ on.

Firstly, I am such a whimp that I see no need for me personally to own or shoot anything bigger than .510 caliber.

Secondly, I like a little faster twist on my pea shooters, but your abhorence of faster twist on man portable sporting rifles is understandable, if they are as big as yours: the torque is more manageable with a slower twist.

So it really just boils down to one thing: I'm a whimp and you are not.

You have revealed the secrets of taming the 500A2 Ruger No.1, just the way I do it for shooting off the bench or from a tall bipod in the sitting position, with 750 grainers at 2200 fps (2100 fps in the 23-incher and 2200 fps in the 27-inch Ruger No.1):
PAST pad
and
muzzle brake

I would not shoot these babies prone, since I am such a whimp with a weak clavicle. However, even I can control the torque of these, whimpy though I may be, even with their 10" twist barrels:



Actually the B&C stock on this Ruger No.1 500A2 is so short that it is wearing a leather slip-on that covers a LimbSaver that covers the B&C pad: three recoil pads to get my desired LOP and "comfort number."

The BRNO ZKK 602 in .510JAB wears a LimbSaver over a Pachmayr Decelerator Sporting Clays pad on the McMillan stock: two pads.
I get rid of the muzzle brake on this one for offhand shooting with 570-grainers at 2405 fps from the 23" barrel. If wearing a winter coat I would get rid of the slip-on pad too.

PS: I could easily recommend a 12" twist for the 500A2 using 750-grain A-Max bullets at 2150 fps for 1000 yard target shooting, just like I would recommend a 15" twist for the 50BMG which produces higher velocity and similar revs/sec with the slower twist. But my pea shooters are used at shorter ranges and I would rather have more twist than the minimum long range target ideal.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
stock design...pad is an easy fix

This is what I was talking about before. Think "qualifiers". ("I've never shot one, but I have read that the stock design is....yadda yadda.")

Its like you want to sound like an old pro, without ever being an amateur or pro. I can't think of anyone with less experience that has the temerity to make matter of fact statements about things they have never done....it is boggling sometimes, and I think the guys are actually being pretty darn patient with ya man.

Ever heard of the old saying "Too big for his britches"? Its you dude.

No woodshed here...just keepin' it real...

Cheers,
Canuck

On the topic at hand, I have little experience with the Ruger #1's but have shot them in 375 and 458 WM quite a few times. The 458 WM wasn't bad at all. I did get more muzzle rise than a comparable bolt rifle, but I just attributed it to the weight (on average they are pretty light for big bores, even with the chunky barrels).

Cheers,
Canuck

Boomstick- It's not a trip to the woodshed its simply a bit of straight advise! Listen for a moment. Your in way over your head. Lotsa folks are complaining and its not endearing or even funny anymore. It would be a different story if you ever completed just one of your hair-brained ideas. At least that way you would learn from your mistakes. No, you try and get others to spend their money and time and invest none of yours. Thats crap my good man. Sit down and think about it for a minute. You don't have either the knowledge or experience to play at this level. Until you actually buy build or steal a real Big BORE, WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE HERE IS NOT MISSING THAT FACT. Don't pretend your a expert, your not! If thats a trip to the woodshed, consider that you've earned it.-Rob

ramrod340 -

To get back to your original question. I bought a used No. 1 in 458 Win that still had the original Ruger butt pad installed. I also found that the rifle was too muzzle heavy for my liking. Recoil was not too bad but not pleasant without using a limbsaver slip-on pad. I installed a decelerator pad and added a 16 ounce mercury recoil reducer in the butt. To me, these changes made a big difference in the balance and felt recoil characteristics of the rifle. Recoil is still there, but it is not unpleasant to shoot. I have no issues with the overall stock design.

My #1 in .458 has a recoil that's stout, but not unreasonable. I do reccomend adding a slip-on pad, and a scope helps by giving a bit more weight to the rifle and shifting a little weight rearward a touch.
It's not as bad as a 6# 12-gauge with 3" shells recoil-wise.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Seems like I've read a lot of negative comments about the 458 in a ruger #1 when it comes to recoil. Is the problem weight, stock design, or the rock hard factory bad?

All of the above!

Not really the stock design is fine, but could do with a better recoil pad, and some more weight in the whole rifle! In 458 Win Mag it isn't that bad anyway, but by the time you get to the 458 LOTT,with heavy loads, it is getting a little uncomforatble to shoot more than a few rounds!

Idaho Sharpshooter and Boom stick. Both of you are right. A gunsmith of 30 years experience said they need straighter stocks. I have Ruger No 1's in 458, 378 Wby and 460 Wby. The addition of a scope on the 378 tamed it down dramatically. The Installation of mercury tubes, porting the barrels, a recoil reducing pad and a scope will significantly reduce recoil. A scope (EER extended eye relief) is properly mounted on the barrel of a No 1 big bore. This keeps the scope away from the forehead AND the ejection port open for faster loading. The true recoil reducing stock is the old Roberts High Comb Rollover with palm swell. A 340 Wby (with its forward sloping comb) was absolutely punishing until I put it in a Roberts stock. That made it shootable(all day). Most guys do not like the looks of Rollover stocks but they are efficent recoil reducers. The stock has alot of castoff I believe in several directions, to direct the recoil from the face.

I have a NO l in 416 Rem Mag. Its no pussy cat off the bench but It really is not to bad. I once shot 20 rounds of heavy hand loads off the bech through the Chronograph. NEVER again.

Just my $.02.

My bone stock #1 Lott with full loads was a handfull! First rifle I have shot that gave my shooting arm "stingers" but I have improved my technique since then

With a scope (more weight) and a slip on pad the #1 Lott became fun and shootable. I liked the cartridge and acquired a RSM Lott. IMO the RSM handles recoil better, but of course still nedded a better pad! The #1 is a great rifle, but in heavier rounds needs a little "attention." One can get into a true big bore with a number one for $700 or so and I think that is a great value.

boom stick,

I am pretty low key on the forums here, offering what I can from my experiences, little as they may be from the vast knowledge of many here. I am a relative newbie in the big bore arena, and have NO DG experience to call on. However I do have first hand knowledge of the struggles I had going from a .300 Win which I thought a bad dude to a Marlin 1895 45-70 (big bad dude) to my Sako 338 Lapua that was at the time a fire breather to me. A 375 H&H seemed workable but my first 416 Rigby had me second guessing my resolve.

The 416 Rigby was the first rifle round that I experienced torque! Whoa, shooting off the bench you couldn't just let the rifle do its thing. Not to mention teaching me that A. you don't shoot bigger bores from a low varmint/benchrest position and B. bigger bores should be shot off the bench to sight in then shot as in the field. My 458 Lott experience with both my #1 and RSM continued my big bore learning. Proper position and hold for a heavier rifle is eveything. I now shoot a couple of hundred rounds from my Lott every year at ground squirrels (my love and pastime) and I get a big jones out of putting a big round on a little target, with hydraulic results

I really appreciate boom stick's enthusiasm with his projects, but I agree with those that say walk before you run. To say that the .585 Thunder Boomer has controllable recoil, I have to ask as compared to what? I LOVE big bore rifles and was one of the original "dirty dozen" that went in with Rob on the 600OK. I sold my barrell, dies and brass as I just couldn't complete the project at that time.

My point is that I have experienced going from walking (say 300 Win) to 338 Lapua and then on to the Rigby and Lott rounds. I am not running yet although I have a pretty good grasp of the Lott. I truely believe that one needs to WANT to master a bigger bore rifle to shoot one well. It is a mind set that you WILL control the rifle and be able to shoot it accurately. IMO this comes from experience as well as determenation. IMO there is a big difference shooting a 300/338/mag even a 375 and going beyond. The Lott is a great round and I am comfortable with it(now), but I think going to a 500 Jeff/500 A2 or beyond is going to take even more practice and discipline to shoot well. A 45-70 is one thing, a 585 is another. Keep your enthusiasm for the bigger stuff, but seriously shoot some rifles of serious caliber and work your way up. You will be a better rifleman for it and have more "biggest bore cred."

Sincerely,

John

quote:

Originally posted by JKS:

... I truely believe that one needs to WANT to master a bigger bore rifle to shoot one well. It is a mind set that you WILL control the rifle and be able to shoot it accurately. IMO this comes from experience as well as determenation. IMO there is a big difference shooting a 300/338/mag even a 375 and going beyond. The Lott is a great round and I am comfortable with it(now), but I think going to a 500 Jeff/500 A2 or beyond is going to take even more practice and discipline to shoot well. A 45-70 is one thing, a 585 is another. Keep your enthusiasm for the bigger stuff, but seriously shoot some rifles of serious caliber and work your way up. You will be a better rifleman for it and have more "biggest bore cred."

Sincerely,

John

Well said.

Of course muzzle brakes and PAST pads make good training wheels for introduction to TORQUE.

May The Torque be with you.

I think I am going to order a Lott in #1 on Monday...

Justin

I had one 1H in 458WM.

I only have gratitude and high praise for that rifle, which was an INCREDIBLE TACK DRIVER, no matter what I fed she.

Recoil was easily manageable, I used a PAST recoil tamer and no problem.

In terms of desing, the rifle is almost perfect to my eyes.

Well I have now shot 5 full house 458s from a #1 with a factory pad. I will be the first to say after the first round I slipped my Past on my shoulder so I could try and tell what was going on and not THINK about pulling the trigger. The factory pad might as well not be there. The stock seemed to fit me fine. A nicer pad would help as well. Expert that I'm NOT I got the feeling that while the 24" barrel is long enough added to the short action it give a pretty good muzzle jump. Even with a scope and the same weight as a bolt action I would think you would still have more rize.

If I get the trade worked first thing is a pad, and play with the balance. Oh and load up some training loads.

Thanks to all that responded with their thoughts.

The 460 Wby Ruger No 1 I had was manageable off the bench with a shooting cradle, three sand bags one on each side of the cradle and one butted against the rear. A Past recoil shield AND a sand bag between my shoulder. Then the rifle was contollable. The addition of a EER scope on the barrel, Mercury tubes in the stock, ported barrel and good recoil pad will tame it right down. A 350gr Barnes spitzer X bullet moved at 2700 fps would make a great elk and moose load.

Besides a .375h&h, my .458 win in #1 was my 2nd .458 win -- and the reason I finally went to Africa (though I took my .375 and an '06, and skipped the .458).

Having said that, I have to say the .458 win is a nice gun to shoot. I have afforded the opportunity for several of my friends to shoot it. A little coaching on where to put the stock butt (so it doesn't make your arm tingle, etc), and invariably the expression on their face is a big grin when it hits the target exactly where aimed -- and delivers that precision with all that energy with more "smack" than most of them have enjoyed before. Most take more than 2 shots... Good fun!

I don't find the #1 to be so hard as some people have reported. That butt has a hard rubber recoil pad. But it doesn't seem to matter if the rifle is mounted right.

Dan

Well I don’t clam to be the expert some are on hear and other forums. I had a .375 H&H tropical rifle that wasn’t to bad. I have shot a couple of 458 win mags that weren’t pleasant off the bench. I think a little more weight would have helped or a recoil reducer or 2. The worst I ever got hurt by recoil was shooting a Ruger #3 in 45-70. That thing only weighed about 31/2 lbs and had a steel but plate and the curved lever chewed on my hand. I sold the 375 because I couldn’t see having a single shot dangers game rifle. The guy who bought it wanted to know how it grouped. I told him it shot into a 3/8 inch hole every time……
Bill