Looking round did I correctly read the 375Ruger has about a 6%+ case capacity over the H&H? If so, does that make it equal to the 416 rem as the rem is an 8mm mag necked up essentially?

If so, one can run the 400 grain bullet at 2350-2400 fps without pressure problems in a standard length action, correct?

This sounds very promising as a single gun for Africa or in tandem with a 338-06 running 250s in the same velocity profile.

Thoughts?

And, if you look around (Ruger quit making them), you can find an (albeit ugly), stout-as-heck, extremely functional, accurate platform for the cartridge for $800 to $1000.... a Hawkeye Alaskan.

question Judge: what is the cut across the head on the ele?

You heard correctly about the 375 Ruger having about 5 grains more capacity than the H&H. However, in .416" things reverse, and the Rem has about two grains over the Ruger. Both will do 2400 fps with 400 grain bullets without too much fuss. Having two rifles at the same velocity (a slower 338-06 with heavier bullets) makes good hunting sense for keeping your eye practiced.

However, should you want to go up to 2600fps, their are some great 350 grain bullets and 330. (With the 338-06 you could use 225 TTSX, or go down to a 210 TTSX for 2700fps.) Personally, I'm use a Rigby and run the 350 grainers over 2800fps. They work fine on buffalo.

As for rifles, Ruger currently has the African available in 416Ruger, and I would expect some more Alaskans within a year or two. It sounds like they were selling pretty well in Alaskan and South Africa, and some distributors might have one or two kicking around.

was wondering further if the 416 ruger would make a handy rifle to build out of a standard 98?

Bluefish:

That's blood coming from a side brain shot. The angle kind of makes it look like it's flowing uphill for a bit from the entry hole, doesn't it??

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:

Looking round did I correctly read the 375Ruger has about a 6%+ case capacity over the H&H? If so, does that make it equal to the 416 rem as the rem is an 8mm mag necked up essentially?

bluefish:

I am not sure I understand your question. Equal in what respect? Case capacity? Killing power?

sorry - i understand it to mean the 375R holds about 6% more powder than the H&H. and, if so, is that about the same as the difference in capacity between the H&H and the 416 RM case? if so, wouldn't the 416RM and the 416R then operate at about the same pressure with one being able to function in a standard length Mauser without modification?

The 416 Rem is based on the 8mm Rem mag case, which is a slightly blown out and "improved" H&H case.
So while the 375 Ruger has a few grains extra powder capacity over the H&H case. The 416 Rem has a little over the Ruger.
Basically the Ruger falls between the 416 Rem and the 416 Taylor. Which is in pretty good company.
It is a natural fit for standard length actions.

thanks for the clarification, Phil. What I was looking for.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
was wondering further if the 416 ruger would make a handy rifle to build out of a standard 98?

Very much so.

for clarification:

The 416 Ruger has 10 more grains capacity over the Taylor, worth 100 fps for whoever is counting, while the 416 Rem only has two grains over the Ruger.

So the 416 Ruger and 416 Rem are ballistic twins. In addition, the 416 Ruger fits a standard 30-06 action, and a standard .532" casehead-boltface.

quote:

The 416 Ruger has 10 more grains capacity over the Taylor, worth 100 fps for whoever is counting, while the 416 Rem only has two grains over the Ruger.

So the 416 Ruger and 416 Rem are ballistic twins. In addition, the 416 Ruger fits a standard 30-06 action, and a standard .532" casehead-boltface

Yep what he said.

Can the Ruger use a 400TSX or 450 Woodleigh?

quote:

Can the Ruger use a 400TSX or 450 Woodleigh?

They are 416s. QL says in a 24" up to 2400 for the 400 and 2300 for the 450.

There were claims early on that there were issues with powder capacity with longer bullets. Was wondering what experience had shown on the matter.

Ryan I can't help you with those specifc bullet. I guess the question I would ask is the 416 Rem Mag large enough for them? If so the Ruger gives up 1 gr of net capacity with the 450 and 2grs of net capacity with the 400. That is assuming 3.6" with the Rem and 3.34 with the Ruger. If you can load the Ruger to 3.4 they are equal.

For me within 2 grs net they are still equal. If something in the 23-2400 range won't get it done then you need a lot more case. Like Rigby Wby etc.

From a view point of someone who needs a lightweight powerful rifle the 416 Ruger is about perfect.
Here is one with my favorite 458 and there is little to choose between them





and if you want really slim and light the 416 drops right into one of the tough old Ruger canoe paddle stocks.



and even with no additional bedding they shoot

as the inventor of the 416 accurate reloading, with in a nearly identical competing offering, the 416 ruger is OUTSTANDING and delivers what it is purported to have done .. it's on par with the 416 rem in capacity, and with fast powders, will work amazing results .. my 416 accrel hits 2400 with zero issues what so ever

Jeffeoso,
While the 416 AccRel has a mild (6.5 grain capacity) advantage over the 416Ruger, neither of us would probably recommend a wildcat for only 6.5 grains advantage. And I would rate the Ruger case as one of the nicest developments of the last decade, right on a par with the 500 AccRel

So yes, the 416Ruger is as good as it sounds.

quote:

neither of us would probably recommend a wildcat for only 6.5 grains advantage

How many AIs were built for that?

I've shot Jeff's 416 and have a Ruger case sitting next to the AccRel. Hard to go wrong with either. The Ruger is far easier.

Nice. I did the same thing with my .416 Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan to replace the Hogue stock.
Uncle Mike's used to make a kit to replace the rattling sling hangers on that canoe-paddle stock.
Has filler hardware and studs, a nut inside forearm if stud desired there.
Or you can use the barrel band already on the rifle and a solitary stud on the buttstock. Or just home-rig it yourself like that.
A bit of drilling in the hard plastic stock is required either way.

To be clear. The ruger is great and works

does anyone care to wager its long term impact i.e. the 300 win mag vs the 300 H&H or will it merely be another choice in the marketplace?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
does anyone care to wager its long term impact i.e. the 300 win mag vs the 300 H&H or will it merely be another choice in the marketplace?

It's more complicated than that. What is it being compared with?

Maybe the 416 Ruger should be compared to the 308 vs. 30-06 vs. 300 mag, since the 416 Ruger competes with the longer 416 Remington and the more powerful 416 Rigby, which is factory loaded down to the first two cartridges.

that was my point; will the 416 Ruger take a large percentage of market share from the Rem Mag or Rigby due to its design or will it simply become another choice for hunters?

Phil

Those Paddlestick stocks have all of a sudden
become very popular - for what you have used
them for and for the Ruger Scout's as well.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
that was my point; will the 416 Ruger take a large percentage of market share from the Rem Mag or Rigby due to its design or will it simply become another choice for hunters?

I believe the 416 Ruger will continue to be 'another choice' for hunters - but this is driven by the action length required for each cartridge. The 416 RemMag will continue to dominate the standard-long action where the 416 Ruger and the 416 Rigby will continue to dominate the standard-length action and the magnum-length actions respectively.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
if so, wouldn't the 416RM and the 416R then operate at about the same pressure with one being able to function in a standard length Mauser without modification?

Just to address the latter question, the 416ruger would function in a standard mauser 98 based on length, but the bolt head would need to be opened up from 0.470 to the larger bolt size of the ruger, .532"....as 416Tanzan mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by setch:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
if so, wouldn't the 416RM and the 416R then operate at about the same pressure with one being able to function in a standard length Mauser without modification?

Just to address the latter question, the 416ruger would function in a standard mauser 98 based on length, but the bolt head would need to be opened up from 0.470 to the larger bolt size of the ruger, .532"....as 416Tanzan mentioned.

Also a little rail work, magazine box work, and polishing the feed ramp, to assure flawless feeding of the 416 Ruger in a military or commercial M98 Mauser based rifle. All things easily accomplished by a good gunsmith having experience modifying M98 Mausers for belted magnum cartridges. The costs should be right off their published list of charges/costs...

While I have always predicted a long and successful future for the .375 Ruger,
the .416 calibers have always been sort of an in-between caliber between the powerful mid bores and the recognized and proven stopping rounds.
They work great, and in my opinion are just about perfect for Alaskan bear guides, but in Africa it seems that most folks wanting to step up from the .375 usually wish to move up to .458 or larger.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
While I have always predicted a long and successful future for the .375 Ruger,
the .416 calibers have always been sort of an in-between caliber between the powerful mid bores and the recognized and proven stopping rounds.
They work great, and in my opinion are just about perfect for Alaskan bear guides, but in Africa it seems that most folks wanting to step up from the .375 usually wish to move up to .458 or larger.

I think this post is spot on.

The only reason I didn't make a .375 Ruger is that I already have a .376 Steyr, .375 H&H, 9,3x62 and 9,3x64. Even for me the Ruger would have been a little redundant. But I was so impressed with the cartridge itself that I quickly saw where the 416 would make a nice addition to the herd. In a Mauser action it is a much handier package than my CZ550 in 416 Rigby.

Neither feast nor fowl...the saga of the heavy mediums (i.e., the >.400 and <.458 calibers)... Historically represented by the .416 Rigby and .404 Jeffery... Flat shooting and accurate like the 9,3/.375 calibers with a 'delivery thump' on DG approaching the .458's... What's not to like - especially if your 'shoulder capability' falls short of the >.458 caliber cartridges...

Sorry I'm not trying to go off subject but I would like to see the Ruger design in a 2.85" basic case just for wildcatting. It will fit any magnum long action already on the market probably with little if any feed work and would make some really cool new rounds. You could get more velocities from existing rounds like the Lott or Rem Mag or run them at lower pressures. No belt and still maintain higher magazine capacities over larger cases. Any thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by Sid-:
Sorry I'm not trying to go off subject but I would like to see the Ruger design in a 2.85" basic case just for wildcatting. It will fit any magnum long action already on the market probably with little if any feed work and would make some really cool new rounds. You could get more velocities from existing rounds like the Lott or Rem Mag or run them at lower pressures. No belt and still maintain higher magazine capacities over larger cases. Any thoughts?

I'm surprised that one of the smaller companies - such as Jamison (now Captech International) hasn't eliminated the 'belt creating step' with their belted magnum brass which would result in exactly this. Very likely it will take a company to create a cartridge for their rifles based off this 'beltless-belted magnum case' before the basic brass will become available. Or someone with deep pockets to order a 10K run of the basic brass.

Again sorry for the off topic comment...

quote:

Originally posted by Sid-:
Sorry I'm not trying to go off subject but I would like to see the Ruger design in a 2.85" basic case just for wildcatting. It will fit any magnum long action already on the market probably with little if any feed work and would make some really cool new rounds. You could get more velocities from existing rounds like the Lott or Rem Mag or run them at lower pressures. No belt and still maintain higher magazine capacities over larger cases. Any thoughts?

Hornady has 2.65" basic brass in this casehead.

Your wish for a longer case would be a little less than the RUM. It's advantage would be -- better feeding than the RUM? or what?

Meanwhile, the 416 Ruger is a great cartridge.

I was thinking more along the lines of less gunsmith work on the millions of magnum actions that already exist. The idea of the ruger shorter and longer versions would cover every caliber up to 470 in very affordable brass. I certainly think the 416 Ruger is a fantastic idea. Having a little more capacity would be a great platform to work with without having to go to RUM or Rigby brass which would add cost to the rifle.

Has anyone out there modified a 98 Mauser to a 416 ruger? If so, I'd love to hear what the donor was and how easily it made the transition.

Setch,

I used a Commercial Zastava action and a Military 98. The Commercial of course required a little less effort . Since I astarted with a commercial .30-06 it required opening the boltface as well as altering the rails. Really, a pretty straight forward conversion.

How many rounds does the magazine hold?

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
Setch,

I used a Commercial Zastava action and a Military 98. The Commercial of course required a little less effort . Since I astarted with a commercial .30-06 it required opening the boltface as well as altering the rails. Really, a pretty straight forward conversion.