19NOV11
Second range report posted below.

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11OCT11
New question. How do I disassemble the Mark X bolt for cleaning?

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13SEP11
I recently got my 1st Big Bore, an Interarms Mark X in 458WM, and need advice. It was a blast to shoot but 510gr SP's @ 2040 were a handful. 12 was my limit.

What is the proper technique for shooting a large caliber, heavy recoiling rifle? Where exactly on the shoulder/pec does the butt go? How squared up or bladed should the torso be? Head position? Foot position?


What shooting sticks for the range? 2 point Vs 3 point? Brands?

I would like to replace the Whitworth recoil pad with something a litle more forgiving but similar in style.

I will post pics of the rifle after I get some time to take them.

Thanks guys,

Hizzie

12 of any big bore is going to be a handful for most unless the rifle is so heavy that recoil is tamed to something like a 30.06 etc. Standing and rolling with the punch works best but many of us just like shooting off the bench to see how our handloads perform or how good we can shoot on target with the gun.
My own light Mauser in .404 is not overly pleasant to shoot off the bench and after 5 in a row I will show bruising the next day in the crook of the shoulder. Perhaps a better pad than the ventilated version the rifle came with from Africa may help but the best solution, and helps with cost too, is the cast bullet. These can be cast same weight as the jacketed bullets but are loaded down a bit where there is still a good thump but at a tolerable and enjoyable level. Generally easy to get to shoot to same POI as full power loads in bolt actions so good practice for the real thing.

Absolutely no shame in finding multiple full power loads hard to handle but if going to use the rifle on game need to ensure a fear of the recoil is not built up. Cast bullets provide a great alternative for plenty of shooting and the full power load recoil won't be noticed when shooting game.

I pull the rifle in as tightly as I can into my chest just off of my shoulder, if that makes any sense. I use both hands to pull the rifle in also. I then "step" into the rifle, meaning I lean forward with my front knee slightly bent and my back leg extended back quite a bit. I hope that makes some sense. I seldom shoot off of a bench, that is why God invented men . Don't feel bad about stopping after 12 shots either, somewhere I have a video of an ex-boyfriend who started crying after 3 shots off the bench with my old 458 Winchester magnum.

I shoot offhand or with a two legged set of shooting sticks.

Thanks to those who already responded. What would I use to take care of the stock? It is lovely and I would like to keep it that way.

Pics as promised.

Pics for the Interarms Mark X experts.











There does not appear to be anything under the scope bases. Any info would be great. The only reference to Whitworth on the rifle is the butt pad.

Very nice looking rifle you have there, enjoy it.

nice rifle....

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
nice rifle....

Thanks Jim. I thought you'd like it.

Steph-thank you.
Crying after 3 shots? Did you have to open doors for him?

nice rifle.. and a great starting point

Congratulations on a fine rifle!
I have a Whitworth in 458, upgraded to Lott, so I know about the recoil in this rifle. It is light for caliber for most.
Suggest replacing the pad with a soft Kick EEZ or similar pad, while saving the original red rubber. Shoot from sticks or a atanding rest ( I made mine). You can add weight to the stock, but I wouldnt, as it destroys the balance.
Finally, try shooting 400 0r 450 gr loads to start off. I dont like removing lead from my barrel, so i dont use cast bullets.
The trick with a heavy recoiling rifle is proper fit, proper hold, and practice. Starting with light loads and building up. reaction to recoil is mosttly mental. You have to convince your brain it doesnt hurt too much. You dont feel recoil during hunting. good luck! thats a really unusually prretty stock for a mark 10

Nice rifle! Congratulations & have fun.

quote:

but 510gr SP's @ 2040 were a handful. 12 was my limit.

12??? You are a much stouter man than I sir. How much does your rifle weigh?

LWD

That is a fantastic looking piece of wood and I understand your wanting to protect it. If I understand your question correctly you are contemplating a protective finish and not referring to cleaners for the stock. I know Durakote has a clearcote finish that does not require baking. If you already have an airbrush or HV/LP(high volume low pressure) sprayer it will only cost $20-$25 delivered.

There is also Cerakote but it requires baking your stock at 180 degrees for a few hours. Of course you can always send it to them and have it done for around $100 if memory serves me correctly. I would even consider having the action and barrel coated then you would have a lifetime barrier against all things bad.

I researched an identical rifle as yours for a friend and found that Interarms and Whitworth are the importers for that rifle which is made by Zastava in Yugoslavia. I did not find a lot of info on the rifle but owners seemed to rate the rifles highly. You have a quality firearm that should give you a lifetime of service at an affordable price. We need more manufacturers like them that offer quality and value.

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:

quote:

but 510gr SP's @ 2040 were a handful. 12 was my limit.

12??? You are a much stouter man than I sir. How much does your rifle weigh?

LWD

About 8.5lbs. I ordered some 405gr FPSP's @ 2200fps from Wisconsin Cartridge Corp for practice/general use.


Sid-I do not want to clear coat it. I just want to clean and maintain the wood to preserve its beauty.


Jeff-This is definately the start of something for me. Sunday was too much fun and there are soooo many big calibers and rifles out there.


Thank you to all the other comments and advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Hizzie:
There does not appear to be anything under the scope bases. Any info would be great. The only reference to Whitworth on the rifle is the butt pad.

I'm assuming by this comment you mean you have looked for a name under the bases but it drew my attention and I respectfully offer the following advise. Get those bases securely cemented on. Unlike many, I do not use any loctite product on scope base screws but instead use a two tube epoxy cement on the underside of bases plus some on the screw threads and in the action threads. This creates a water tight seal stopping any potential for corrosion under the bases and provides a mounting interface almost as strong as solder. The bases, screws and epoxy can be removed once softened with some judiciously applied heat if there is ever a need to. Non-cemented bases and loctited screws have no place on my rifles or any others I have ever mounted scopes on and that has been many over the years, all never giving trouble with shifting or loose bases.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Hizzie:
There does not appear to be anything under the scope bases. Any info would be great. The only reference to Whitworth on the rifle is the butt pad.

I'm assuming by this comment you mean you have looked for a name under the bases but it drew my attention and I respectfully offer the following advise. Get those bases securely cemented on. Unlike many, I do not use any loctite product on scope base screws but instead use a two tube epoxy cement on the underside of bases plus some on the screw threads and in the action threads. This creates a water tight seal stopping any potential for corrosion under the bases and provides a mounting interface almost as strong as solder. The bases, screws and epoxy can be removed once softened with some judiciously applied heat if there is ever a need to. Non-cemented bases and loctited screws have no place on my rifles or any others I have ever mounted scopes on and that has been many over the years, all never giving trouble with shifting or loose bases.

Thanks. I will keep that in mind when I change the bases to Warnes.

Hizzie- Get a F990 pad installed on the gun and cover it in leather. I described how to do this in another post recently. It will make a huge difference and make the gun look more elegant at the same time.
BTW red locktite on your scope bases works perfectly and wont result in stripped screws later on.-Rob

I have always liked the Whitworth Mk X and have had a bunch of them. I kind of pull back with the front hand, and push down, and away with the grip hand, but not real hard just enough to steady yourself offhand. Also just for style points, don't wear the flip flops while shooting a classic type rifle!

Hizzie,

The MK X'S/Whitworths are a lot of rifle for the money. I think you'll be very happy with it. As advised change out that recoil pad and your good to go. The only other thing I noticed was the scope bases are Weavers and probably aluminum or at least I'm 90% sure. The concept works fine but on heavy recoiling rifle you need steel bases. The cross slot in the aluminum bases will widen eventually under recoil. I know this because at one time I triedto lighten every rifle I owned and the Weaver system was the lightest on the market at that time. The Weavers are still fine but use the Weaver or Leupold steel bases. Don't let anyone tell you a scope is not appropriate on a 458.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Hizzie- Get a F990 pad installed on the gun and cover it in leather. I described how to do this in another post recently. It will make a huge difference and make the gun look more elegant at the same time.
BTW red locktite on your scope bases works perfectly and wont result in stripped screws later on.-Rob

Rob-I was leaning towards the Pachmayr Decelerator D752B in red to maintain the look of the rifle. You got any pics of this leather covered job. I looked at pics of the F990 online and it appears to be less than elegant in its styling. Thanks for the tip of the red loc-tite.

I wil be replacing the Weaver bases with Warne's before I mount an optic. It will be a RDS as an expirement.


Mark-thank for the tips.


jstevens-Never flip flops at the range. Hot brass on the little piggies would definately make them go wee-wee-wee all the way home.

Great rifle. I have owned at least 9 Interarms Mark X's over the years. They're the best Mauser based rifle on the market for the money. Very nice wood on this gun
.

My recommendation would be to leave the rifle alone as is. The handling on these British styled stocks on the Whitworths are hard to beat. To improve your shooting and reduce recoil, shoot only from shooting sticks standing or shoot off-hand standing.

A .458 was never meant to be shot from a bench. Ouch. Standing off-hand you'll get good with this rifle with practice.

Congratulations, Mike

Mike,

I shot it offhand and have no intentions of benching it until I have to. That butt pad MUST to go. I actually have 2 bruises on my shoulder/pec. They are in-line vertically and just far enough apart that when you look at the butt pad and my bruises it is obvious that the top and bottom corners of the pad are biting me. It is not spreading out the recoil forces, it is concentrating it in 2 spots.

The whitworths handle recoil amazingly well IMO..so your good to go on that end..

The secret to shooting a big bore of any caliber is pulling the gun into your shoulder cup hard with the trigger hand and snug with the forend hand..Thes creates a push, not a slap. I hold the rifle as hard as I can without setting up the shakes.

Shoot your gun mostly off hand or on a standing bench rest or with a recoil reducing rest, that will ease the situation considerably and help you get used to the added recoil..

I don't like sticks, but most folks do. I just shoot better without them but I have practiced my whole life shooting off hand..If one can shoot well off hand then one can shoot from any kind of position or rest as a rule.

Unfortunatly in my case the sticks have been my waterlou, I'm not allowed to use them by the PHs but they graciously afford me their shoulder for difficult shots if a tree or rock isn't handy..

Beautiful. A well deserved congratulations on finding a real beauty. I know you will grow to think of this as your go-to in no time at all.
I agree with Rob about the f 990 and the addition of leather. Be sure you keep the "Whitworth Pad" I have decelerators on all my "keeper" Whitworth and Mark X rifles. I think I will try the leather cover for effect.
Do not do anything to the rifle or stock for at least a year of shooting. I too would change the bases to either the Warne, Talley or Leupold steel. It will work for you long term. I would recommend locktite and forget the epoxy for now. You can always add it after you have experience with the rifle and know without doubt what you want.
As far as the care of the stock, don't worry about it until it is time to worry. You can fix anything that happens which is the beauty of wood. Of course just wipe it down after handling and or if wet.
As far as recoil goes. You shoot lighter loads until you become comfortable then you can play with heavy loads or get one to change to Lott or 450 Ackley. I have one of each and try to sneak up on them once in a while- those puppies can punish if you want or enjoy that sort of thing. You have the recoil block already and with a good bedding job you shouldn't have any concerns even with full house and heavy for caliber loads. As mentioned above the stocks on these express rifles are so well made and handle so well it is a serious change to add weight or do much else to them.

A very nice rifle with standing offer to buy if you decide to sell.


Frank

Frank-

I was hoping you'd show up. I read quite a few posts researching info on Mark X/Whitworth rifles and you stuck out to be an expert on the matter.

Is this "just" a Mark X, a Mark X Express or an actual Whitworth rifle?

Also do you know what the factory front sight height is? I want to make sure the sights regulate to the load I will be shooting and knowing what height the sight is will let me know what size to order to raise/lower impact. I also want to replace the missing hood.

F990? It is just so ugly. Anybody got a pick of 1 with the leather?

Thanks,

Hizzie

I would never consider myself or any other individual an expert because there is so little info available and there are so many variations of this Mauser. There is no such thing as "Just" where these rifles are concerned. I have a couple of Mark X's that outshoot most of my Whitworth marked rifles. I would love the wood on your rifle versus some of the stocks on some of the Whitworth marked rifles I own. It is really to be based on the individual rifle as to the value you will place upon it. I have read varying opinons on which came first.
In my opinion, the Whitworth was a variation of the Mauser which was built specific for African Safari. The Mark X started with the same Mauser basics and then started with variations and marketing ideas to deliver the Viscount, the Alaskan, a Mannlicher, Marquis, Cavalier and who knows. Some had cheekrests or not, some with express sights or not, some with front sights or not. Lots of changes.
I think of the Mark X as those with straight forward sights or no sights. The express rifles have express sights and sling band on the barrel. The Mark X's are availiable in a Miriad of calibers where the only Whitworth Express Rifles I have seen are in .375 and .458. I have been told there were some made in .300 and 7mm but I have never seen one.
Bob Hagel I believe included a chapter in his book about the Interarms Mausers and variations.
Another person I have read is Charles Helm who posts here and over on Nitro Express. He has some good posts on the rifle.
I don't have specifics on the sight heights. I know that a couple of my rifles which had actually had the express sights filed for poa had non-original sights on them. I think you are going to have to work that one out for your rifle specific. If you do plan on changing some of the items to fit your needs You might consider the HH barrel band sight with night sight. It is offered by NECG (you have to ask) which more nearly duplicates the African hunting ideals for these express rifles.

Enjoy.
Frank

Frank-

Thanks for the input. The Bob Hagel book, which one?

Did you mean Frank De Hass? Bolt Action Rifles

BTW, my safety does lock the bolt handle when engaged.

ive got a 7 rem mag express rifle, bought as a barreled action from collectors firearms in houston, new unfired.... i stuck it in a boyd's laminate thumbhole stock.... it's a safe queen...

Do you think 100 rounds is enough?





At least I'll have plenty of brass by the time I start reloading.

Great looking rifle!!

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martinez:
Beautiful. A well deserved congratulations on finding a real beauty. I know you will grow to think of this as your go-to in no time at all.
I agree with Rob about the f 990 and the addition of leather. Be sure you keep the "Whitworth Pad" I have decelerators on all my "keeper" Whitworth and Mark X rifles. I think I will try the leather cover for effect.
Do not do anything to the rifle or stock for at least a year of shooting. I too would change the bases to either the Warne, Talley or Leupold steel. It will work for you long term. I would recommend locktite and forget the epoxy for now. You can always add it after you have experience with the rifle and know without doubt what you want.
As far as the care of the stock, don't worry about it until it is time to worry. You can fix anything that happens which is the beauty of wood. Of course just wipe it down after handling and or if wet.
As far as recoil goes. You shoot lighter loads until you become comfortable then you can play with heavy loads or get one to change to Lott or 450 Ackley. I have one of each and try to sneak up on them once in a while- those puppies can punish if you want or enjoy that sort of thing. You have the recoil block already and with a good bedding job you shouldn't have any concerns even with full house and heavy for caliber loads. As mentioned above the stocks on these express rifles are so well made and handle so well it is a serious change to add weight or do much else to them.

A very nice rifle with standing offer to buy if you decide to sell.


Frank

Great advice.

As far as recoil goes, avoid shooting from the bench once sight in is done. Shoot offhand. Also buy a Limbsaver slip on recoil pad. They're ugly but they're only $35 and for bench shooting they make a world of difference. Take it off when your shooting offhand, or showing the gun to someone lol

I like the toenails in the pix.

Recoil management. I have shot many of the boomers and this is the technique I use as it was taught to me. I have shot 32 rounds in competition shooting my 450#2.
It works with practice.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=745103114#745103114
Mike

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
Recoil management. I have shot many of the boomers and this is the technique I use as it was taught to me. I have shot 32 rounds in competition shooting my 450#2.
It works with practice.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=745103114#745103114
Mike

Thanks Mike. I really appreciate it. I will definately try it my next range session.

quote:

Originally posted by kld:
I like the toenails in the pix.

Really? Thanks for your well thought out input.

If you have to spend some bench time with a hard kicking rifle to sort out loads or sight in I usually shoot 2 three shot groups with it then pick up a 22/250 or 223 and shoot a couple groups. Get's you back in good shooting form and producing nice tight groups and helps to stave off a flinch.
Once your bench work is done try shooting from various positions like it may be on a hunt(standing, sitting, leaning on a tree branch) do some fun shooting like water jugs, gongs, propane tanks or whatever.
This kind of shooting gets you very accustomed to your rifle and any quirks it may have will show themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
If you have to spend some bench time with a hard kicking rifle to sort out loads or sight in I usually shoot 2 three shot groups with it then pick up a 22/250 or 223 and shoot a couple groups. Get's you back in good shooting form and producing nice tight groups and helps to stave off a flinch.
Once your bench work is done try shooting from various positions like it may be on a hunt(standing, sitting, leaning on a tree branch) do some fun shooting like water jugs, gongs, propane tanks or whatever.
This kind of shooting gets you very accustomed to your rifle and any quirks it may have will show themselves.

Propane tanks? Where can I find some armor piercing incendiary ammo in 458???

Well I guess propane tanks with propane in them would be fun but we just shoot old tanks that they won't re fill anymore due to wrong valve or rust. I just take them out to my range and roll them around shooting them full of holes.
The kids really enjoy shooting steel targets that make a sound or that you knock down and water jugs too, must admit I like it too!
Its all good practice.

Round 2

Well I finally made it back out to the range. Unfortunately the range we shot at only had benches and no standing. I fired 14rds of the WCC 405's (2200fps) from the bench before I had enough fun. I did try retreever's technique but alas it did not work for me. Oddly the 405's were perfect in regards to POA/POI for the "fine bead" hold I use. No issues with feeding, extraction or ejection and the floorplate stayed close just like it should. Time to go to the gunsmith for that Pachmayr Decelerator. I will not post my groups indifference to shootaway. Steph123 would just embarrass me anyway.

My shooting partner was sighting in his Sako 300WSM and I lended a shoulder after he complained about the recoil and I saw him using a shot bag to soften the blow. After the 458 the 300WSM just tickles. He did take a shot with the 458 to his credit. His eyes welled up but he held in those tears.

A good day.

Mauser bolt disasembly is easy to do but hard to describe..easy to show you how..

You hook the sear over the bench and push down on it and put the safety on, then then put a penny in that slot. then turn the cocking piece counter clockwise and you will have to push in on that little whatchamacallit to get it to turn past the bolt handle. Hmmmm.Better yet find a local or gunsmith to show you how. It will take them about 5 minutes of their time to show you both disasembly and re-asembly.

As a last resort I can find someone to take pictures of me disasembling a bolt and send them to your email....