I guess this proves that I am not totally thickheaded.

this proposed solution is, of course, a good compromise.

IF we can get enough interest in brass to justify Jamison (formerly Bell/Mast) to make a run of brass...

I will spec that the rim is .545 which uses 404 shell holder.

then it's .005, which is less than "golden era" 404 brass.

What does this mean?

in a practical sense... not much. Go ahead and build for the RUM brass and have a local smith open the bolt face once the brass is available. This will NOT changed extractor engagement unless you are phenominaly tight..

If you have one built on a .532 casehead action, in order to use the jamison brass you will need your boltface opened .015 more. This is a less than $50 gunsmithing charge - with extractor cut, if required.

If you have tons of .532 brass, it will not matter, other than a slightly looser fit (you've got nearly this much anyway) on converted RUM brass in the .545 boltface.

Lots of guys are "making" 404 brass from RUM brass... sure seems to work for them, even if the headstamp is wrong

Think this is in the least "unreasonable".. then I would challenge you to look at a 577 trex bolt face.. it's nearly smooth!!!


So, now that the question of "rebated" rim is put to bed by a simple and easy question of money.

I would expect jamison's brass to run slightly under a dollar, if you have an issue with the rebated RUM brass.


When/IF we get the order together (think 5000 pieces) the cases will be headstamped (space) AR ... OR the cases will cost about 20cents more each.

What say you?

jeffe

Just spoke with jamison, he said he'll be happy to make the brass... (unformed shoulder/neck) and will be about $100.

Don't expect we'll get lot of traction on this till after the first couple are built and ruMMing..

jeffe

jeffeosso...

it seems you should take the "bull" by the horns and have a.r. rounds 1 and 2. ar1 is the rum brass a.r.2 is the jeffe brass. just make and approve the drawings so your place in wildcatting er i mean proprietery cart. history is solid. p.s. will there be a 404ar short? i would hate for you to miss that one and have some other ninny steal that from you. p.p.s...what would that do in comparison to the 404 original? that would make rip happy to have a 404ar2...hell just send him one to make him happy call it the 404ar-rip in his name for being the splinter that made it happen. what do you think rip...a short 404 to add to your collection of your favorite cal.

what say you jeffeosso?
what say you rip?

I say shoot the detractors than there is no problem with the rebated rim

BS,
it's in the archives here... it's NOT 404 brass.. it's unrebated rum.. a jeffe invention!!

it's NOT ar1/ar2 ... no difference in the drawing... don't start THAT... it's merely if someone wanted unrebated.. then it's right there

Paul, I think it's ninyism, at this point and level of rebate.. but it's a done deal, provided they pony up to have unrebated...


jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
What say you?

jeffe

I'd day with the .404 Jeff rim and a 1:10 twist on a VZ24 action with a 21" barrel, a 470 AR will be a close quarters DG dream gun!

grains...are you liking the a.r. rounds now? yup that 470 a.r. WILL be popular.

do you plan on making that one?

jeffeosso...what about the 423 diameter...you did not make the drawing or list it on the a.r. future rounds roster?

what will it do in comparison to the 404 jeffery?

BS,

I already have 2 rifles in the Capstick round, plus a 458 Lott, so I don't really need of the AR rounds at this time.

Hey, help the Math/Story Problem retard here, will ya?

Not all of us reload (YET), so I'm LOST.
Will I be able to use my .375 ULTRA brass for anything, or am I now forced to buy new, correctly headstamped brass to go along with new shellholders, etc. to make this conversion?

I really don't understand, so I'm asking for the simplest of explanations.

grains...how bout one for shits and giggles...

its o.k. but i am glad that you see how cool this can be to the average guy who can turn his 300w.m. into a big boomer

Busmaster...
sorry, i meant to be clear on that..
ULTRA brass will work, perfect (rum=rem. ultra mag).. this is exactly how I am building mine!!

you will NOT need new shell holders or headstampped brass .. again, mine are going to be ultra/RUM brass, rebate and all!!!


this is an OPTION if someone wants (and about 30 other people want) we can get unrebated rims.



Myself, I'll just build them on RUM (ultra) brass, and will "upgrade" if we have a ground swell and want to order the unrebated one.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
jeffeosso...what about the 423 diameter...you did not make the drawing or list it on the a.r. future rounds roster?

what will it do in comparison to the 404 jeffery?

BS,
I didn't make the drawing. .416 vs .423... .007 ... one sheet of paper, wrapped around a .416 bullet.

just can't bring myself to do it, with it having next to zip diff from the 404, and the 416ar/...

can be done, just aint
jeffe

let's see..
Dan doesn't want one, right now..

haven't heard from RIP...

and there's very few others that are complaining...


hmm, sounds like plan A (rum/ultras) will be the going assumption

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
let's see..
Dan doesn't want one, right now..

haven't heard from RIP...

and there's very few others that are complaining...


hmm, sounds like plan A (rum/ultras) will be the going assumption

jeffe

Jeffe,
My idea would be to go ahead on up to .585" diameter with both the rim and the head and shorten it to fit in the M98. Then you would have Lapua AR Shorts. LARS: .475 LARS, .458 LARS, .416 LARS, etc.

I thought you knew to count me out.
I am not complaining, because I am not a part of this and never have been. Just trying to shed some light on possible problems that will crop up. I will say no more about the AR Line.

It will be hard to keep shut about the .375,.423, and .458 Lapua however ...

Ron,
no problem.. we've discussed and cussed the bigger rounds... and the why's... and why nots..

.. to those that don't know.. a rebated rim CAN cause problems in two areas of feeding... when the bolt is short stroked and you push on the web, not casehead this is called porpusing and is only experienced with VERY badly rebated rims.

.....and when the rounds are being pushed forward, the rounds tilts as it moves from sidewall to center....

(this can happen with a 308, btw)
if the feeding is not correct the casehead slides DOWN the boltface, and slips under the bolt, causing a jam.

while the later is far more serious, it is easily remedied by a decent smith...

and in the case of the RUM brass, you'll have about.225 casehead on the boltface... .018" rebate should have ZERO impact on feeding, due to stack geometery.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
let's see..
Dan doesn't want one, right now..

haven't heard from RIP...

and there's very few others that are complaining...


hmm, sounds like plan A (rum/ultras) will be the going assumption

jeffe

Yea, I'd go with plan A, Jeffe. As a fellow gunsmith, my wiev of this "problem" with the rebated rim on the RUM is the same as yours. I went over my collection of cases with my calipers, and BOY there were a few lifted eye-brows!

Now, I respect that some people have stiff opinions on this matter, even if they differ from mine - but they will hardly get an ARchambered rifle anyway.

Bent,
I certainly agree with you... and yeah, getting the calipers out will certainly make a person say "hmmnmm"

jeffe