I was reading a few articles by Harold Wolf on the .500 Jeffrey in some Hatari Times magazines.

I wonder why one doesn't see more of them. From what he says, it looks like a great caliber for the heaviest of game, including elephants, and it can easily be made in a regular mauser action, and its working pressure is only in the 50,000 psi range.

why isn't is utilized more often?

Because it takes the highest level of gunsmithing skill to get a .500 Jeffery to feed reliably. There are probably only 10 to 20 such gunsmiths in the whole USA, and there are few clients willing to pay for the time, effort and skill it takes to build a proper .500 Jeff.

500 Grains

I would seem to me that if there is one certain way to set up a Mauser action to make a .500 jeffrey feed properly, then all one would have to do would be to duplicate that set up exactly. Does anyone know what that setup is.
Anybody have a Mauser .500 jeffrey?

I think I would use a Ruger #1 for the 500

http://antiquesandguns.com/rugerone.html

Rather buy a custom action that has the feeding coverd..

Doesn't anyone here admit to owning a .500 Jeffrey?

22wrf,

Each action must be hand tuned to achieve proper feeding. It is possible to set it up on a production basis but there are not enough .500 jeffs purchased to justify such a setup. Hence the hand fitting by an expert.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Doesn't anyone here admit to owning a .500 Jeffrey?

I've got one. A very nice takedown built by Duane Wiebe. Won it here on a raffle at AR.

Of all the .50 caliber DGR cartridges, the .500 jeffery is the most difficult to get to feed reliably. I have a .500AHR version of the .500 Jeffery with a less rebatted rim and it is not a reliable feeder due to a whole series of problems I won't go into here. There is not enough of a demand for them for anyone to make the tooling necessary for reliable high volume production, hense, the ones you run into are all one of a kind. Finally there is nothing the .500 jeffery can do a .500a2 won't do better( mostly feed reliably) other than a trip down nostalgia lane.-Rob

I have never built a 500 and have never seen but one. It was built by Sabi in So. Africa and has no feeding problems. They seem to be able to get it right. I've heard several others who are able to do it. Harald Wolff doesn't seem to have a problem with it.I really don't understand the problem myself. It would seem to be a rail/ramp combination that should be easily overcome with a little study. Gunsmithing is not Magic or even Art to me merely common sense,good engineering and good machining. I am speaking of function not appearance. For some reason I seem to never have these feeding problems with my guns. Maybe I'm just lucky. Here is a Sabi 500 Jeffery

...Harald Wolfe's rifles are NOT .500Jeffry. They are similiar to the .500 Jeffery, but with some differences (?). You'd have to contact Mr. Wolfe for the specs.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Because it takes the highest level of gunsmithing skill to get a .500 Jeffery to feed reliably. There are probably only 10 to 20 such gunsmiths in the whole USA, and there are few clients willing to pay for the time, effort and skill it takes to build a proper .500 Jeff.

Dan,
there's probably 200 than CAN do it... I myself won't do another, but all three feed perfectly...

it's not a question, totally, of skill, but mostly "wontto"

SABI replaces the magazine box with one of their own design.

I have had one for just over 20 years custom built here in Australia on a pre'64 M70.
Purpose built for elephant and certainly has the horsepower for taht job.
The feeding issues are simply the large diameter of the case and having an action which can handle the girth and feed reliably into the breech whilst releasing the round from the magazine.
We solved the problem by presenting the top cartridge as a central feed. In order to make this viable the action was inlet on each side for a leaf spring pinned to the action at the rear with a small tit on the forward end engaging the shoulder area.
These springs stop the rounds from popping out of the action/magazine and as the bolt pushes the rounds forward the springs are pushed back into their individual recesses to allow the fat body to slide past into the breech.
The rifle has a pregnant floorplate allowing 3 of these fat cases in the magazine.
The trigger had to be extended to allow for this modification.
Very english style overall with steel trapdoor grip cap; folding foresight hood; large ivory front bead; ebony foreend cap; extra recoil lug on barrel mid foreend; Rigby cocking piece peep sight.
Another deviation from standard is a folding V rear sight held in place when up by a small strong spring. This allows uninterupted use of the peep when required.
Mercury recoil reducer and magna ported. the magna porting does an incredible job of helping reduce muzzle lift without the full blown noise of the brakes.
Although we went quite traditional in looks this is a rifle purpose built to be practical as well. Gunsmith reckoned I was one of the very few people around who wanted a"feather weight" 500J. But as most will agree there is an awful lot of walking involved for elephant. My belief has been that I would rather carry a 9.5lb rifle all day that kicked abit then a softer shooting 12+lber!
This is a shooter as well with 1.5" groups at 100yds and all touching at 50yds open sights.
Sorry I can't post photos but hope my description is clear.
APB

Jeff, I would be shocked if there were 200 smiths in the U.S. who have ever built a .500 jeff before, never mind make it feed reliably.

quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
...Harald Wolfe's rifles are NOT .500Jeffry. They are similiar to the .500 Jeffery, but with some differences (?). You'd have to contact Mr. Wolfe for the specs.

They are called the .500 Jeffrey Improved. The only difference is that because he uses a larger diameter bolt he doesn't have to use a case with a rebated rim. that is the only difference, he doesn't use a rebated rim. Everyting else is the same.

Boha has one and it feeds very smoothly and is totally reliable.

Recoil is stiff though.

The Houston Safari Club President's rifle that was auctioned off at this year's convention was a 500 Jeffery built by Tip Burns in Canyon Lake, Texas.

Here is a link if you want to call and talk to him. TIPS BURNS

Dan,
perhaps that a deifinition thing.. I am not a commerical smith, but I do a decent job, as well as Rob.. I know 4 smiths who build these things, and do a fine job... that makes 6 that I know personally...

I believe the issue that you might have is that there isn't 200 smiths that can get the REQUIRED fees for making a 500 jeffe work, which limits their production.

I don't think there are 200 smiths in the US who have ever built one, regardless of whether they know how to make it feed. I can only name 5 professional smiths in the U.S. who can make one feed properly.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I don't think there are 200 smiths in the US who have ever built one, regardless of whether they know how to make it feed. I can only name 5 professional smiths in the U.S. who can make one feed properly.

Not to be arugmentative, just stating what I have seen and what I know by seeing their work

Here's a list of those I am aware of and/or have met personally, that can and have.

tipp burns
George / emipre rifles
butch searcy
penrod
dennis
d'arcy
hunting cat
Lindstrom
Sisk
karl weber (haven't met- seen his work)
brockman (haven't met- seen his work)
pedersen (haven't met- seen his work)
breedlove (haven't met- seen his work)
AHR/Ed Plumber (haven't met- seen his work)
Casey /pacnor
weisman
weibe (sp)(haven't met- seen his work)

not pros - but works, feeds, etc, just fine
rob
me

I doubt that I am aware of all of the other fellas and companies that make them and make the well, but here's 19 of those I know to be qualified to do them. I would expect there's more than 3 additional pros that can turn these out fairly easily.

and if one makes it a single stack, it's child's play to make it work.

It's tough, I won't be building anymore, but it's not like a 425 WR

jeffe

Some of the names on my list overlap yours, but 3 of the names on your list have produced .500 jeff rifles which do not feed properly, so they are banned from my list.

Have Penrod, D'Arcy and Sisk actually built .500 jeff rifles before? And I thought Pedersen was a barrel maker. Does he set actions up for feeding too?

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I was reading a few articles by Harold Wolf on the .500 Jeffrey in some Hatari Times magazines.

I wonder why one doesn't see more of them. From what he says, it looks like a great caliber for the heaviest of game, including elephants, and it can easily be made in a regular mauser action, and its working pressure is only in the 50,000 psi range.

why isn't is utilized more often?

Very few people will spend $5-10k on a bolt rifle, and fewer still of those that will spend that much can handle the recoil of a 500 Jeffrey. Not to mention I don't know of much available factory ammo, and component brass is hard to come by and expensive.

Most folks that drop big coin on big guns go the double route.

I have a 500 Jeffrey barreled action, I haven't had the time to make it a repeater.

Those that claim making a 500 Jeffrey repeater is no big deal, have no clue what it takes to make one.

Jeffe

could you tell a little bit more about our .500 Jeffrey. Like what action did you use, and how did you get it to feed. what did you specifically do to it. whose barrel did you use. and how did you stock it.

The local trick by two of our gunsmiths in converting the Big CZ's to feed reliably is to weld two spring steel clips into the magazine box (one each side), effectively converting the magazine to centre feed - with the added bonus of getting the round to sit up much higher for the bolt to pick up. Works well. Ron Mostert does the same magazine work on all .458 Lott's that he converts as well. Walter Roth (who is the better Gunsmith IMHO) only does this on .404's, .425's and .500's that he cannot tune to feed perfectly by normal means.

.

I have a left handed Weatherby action that was rebuilt to 500 Jeffery by Sabi Rifles in Nelspruit that I love dearly. There's always gonna be the guys who knock push feed rifles but I've never had a problem and the rifle feeds beautifully..... A hunting buddy of mine further improved it by making me an extended magazine.

I've posted these pics before but here thay are again anyway......

I am not a gunsmith but I bought a rusty old 500 Jeffrey drop magazine box at AISCO in Dar es Salaam. Cleaned it up and then took a 98 mauser action and used a dremmel tool to match the edge of the magazine box to the rifle's rails.

Gave it to a gunsmith in Germany who barreled and proofed it. It feeds perfectly for 3 in magazine and one in chamber. But the gun is in Dar now so I can't give you the box dimensions.

But I can tell you if you have a magazine box right dimensions its easy to get the 500 Jeffrey to feed reliably in a standard 98 Mauser.

The cartridge I have had trouble getting to feed is the 404 Jeffrey.

VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Ted,

Don't tell me things like that - I'm just having a 404 Jeffery made to use as a loaner to clients...... Actually, it's being made by Sabi Rifles so I'm sure it'll be fine......

I finally did get the 404 to feed with generous use of a dremmel tool. Its on a 1909 Argentine mauser action with a lengthened magazine box. I thought it would be easy but it was very time consuming and now the rifle is slow to reload.

What I really don't like about the rifle is that it only holds two in the magazine and one in the chamber. I'd rather have it as a 375 H&H, 458, or 416 Rem or 458 Lott all of which will hold three in the box and one in the chamber and feed easily.

I am not a gunsmith but I think that with both of the Jeffery cartridges you have to not only get the mag box dimesions right but also distance between the back of the mag box and the bolt face, when the bolt is all the way back, because they both have rebated rims.

I had a client on safari with a 404 that had been made by a famous German gunsmith living in Belgium. It wouldn't feed at all and it seemed to want to chop the cartridges in half. He used it as a single shot.

VBR,


Ted Gorsline

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Jeffe

could you tell a little bit more about our .500 Jeffrey. Like what action did you use, and how did you get it to feed. what did you specifically do to it. whose barrel did you use. and how did you stock it.

Enfields are easist, though overkill for length, CZ 550s even the medium length, can work just fine and dandy ... and Alf's pictures show 70% of what you need to do to a mauser.

Steve's single stack (i finially like a weatherby) is by far the easiest way to get there.

I followed the mauser formula, probided by jim weisner to me, on box dimentions, made that up for the enfields, and then alf's pics certainly made it easy to get the 2nd and 3rd ones more "classic"

porposing is an amazing thing, which is THE SINGLE FLAW WITH A REBATED RIM... this is when the bolt is not fully retracted (not exactly a short stroked problem) and the edge of the bolt catches the angle from head to body... and when you push forward, the bullet nose goes up then DOWN and jams. a short stroked bolt jams on the case body/nose up. different problem and 100% of the short stroke is a user error.

do a 510 wells on a CZ and be done with it

jeffe

500
another name you can add to your list is STUART SATTERLEE....hes done a lot of 500J on M 98
REGARDS DANIEL

Guys- a single stack mag is the best solution to ending feeding problems for any of the big DGR cartridges. This includes the .600OK, .585 Nyati, .505 Gibbs and .500 Jeffery ( and its varients). Using a homemade single stack box I once even got a Turkish Mauser action to feed. Without that single stack mag it's a nightmare. Can it be done? of course, but the number of gunsmiths who can do it can be counted on one hand and they are not cheap! How many of them can actually build a mag box of the correct dimensions, versus buy one( assuming they are available)? The answer is not many! Some actions like the CZ 550 generally can't be made to feed reliably without one because they can't fit a std mag box with the correct cartridge dimensions. The tricks with springs, staggered round feed etc. are all poor solutions to the problem and invariably fail when you need them the most! Been there and done that! I'll use a Single stack for these guys anytime.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Doesn't anyone here admit to owning a .500 Jeffrey?

I own a 500 Jeffery smithed by Sterling Davenport. He has done at least 5 that I know of and all are made using a double stack magazine box made by Ted Blackburn for Hartman and Weiss. Since tearing out my shoulder the last of January, I have not been able to handle heavy stuff(which makes taking a piss real difficult) , so I don't know how it feeds yet. The one he had in Dallas Two years ago fed like butter. It takes a real riflemaker to do many exotic calibers. That is why you won't see many production guns made, they take some love and care to make right.

Square Shooter

What action did Sterling use for yours.

I was reading a bit more about them, and it seems that Wolf makes his with the exact same cartridge without the rebated rim. Is that was the 510 Wells is?

What would be the closest in the Dakota Line of cartriges?

I know two fellows who can do this correctly. First, Tom Burgess and second, Steve Heilmann.

22wrf,

the 510 Wells is a 460 Wby case necked up. A simple to build and adjust alternative to the 500.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

100% of the short stroke is user error

That just doesn't sound good

Is there any commercially loaded ammunition for the .510 Wells?