I just had a 404 Jefferys built on a VZ-24 action.

A good friend, who has hunted Africa twice thinks I might benefit from cutting the 24" barrel down to 20" or so; citing handiness for DG.

Is it worth it, you think?

thanks,

Rich

I have the 375 Ruger Guide Gun and it is a 20" barrel. Very fast to get on your shoulder and swings with ease. Comes up like a good fitting shotgun shooting at flushing birds. Even with a Leupold 2.5-8x36mm scope with low rings. My answer to your questi0n is that you would benefit from it in tight quarters shooting dangerous game.

May we ask what your desired MV is,
and your intended bullet weight?

2100fps with 400gr bullets.

I have a 20" barrel on my 416 B&M and love it.

when I want to push it i am showing 2300 fps with a 400 gr CEB solid. pressure running right at 60,000 PSI.

Have taken elephant buffalo and kudu with it.

I say go for the 20" barrel

Whatever floats your boat. I have a 24" barrel on my 500 Jeffery and I like it's balance and the way it handles. I personally wouldn't go shorter than 22" , but that's just me.

Rich, I'd leave it at 24" for a more classic look. If you want short and handy, get a Ruger 20" in 416 Ruger.

If it shoots well at 24, I would leave it alone. If it is just fair and you want to do it, go for it. I like a short barreled gun but only with a heavy contour barrel. The barrel contour would influence my decision greatly.

If I KNEW that I was going into the thick stuff,
especially desiring just 2100 FPS MV, I'd pick 20"
bbl for the handiness aspect.

Rich, with the classic 404J 24" barrel length is classic combo but for me balance of the rifle between the hands is of utmost importance as I am sure it is for you. I do like short barreled rifles and my Ruger 416 and 375 have 20" barrels. You might consider a compromise at 22", I sure would if the rifle balanced well and you would still not have that short barrel look, it would handle well in the brush. It's quite objective to me the difference of a 20-22" barrel is in comparison to a 24" when I am in thick stuff.

My choice for a DG bolt rifle would be a 20 inch barrel and I would also shorten the LOP by about 1/4 - 3/8 of an inch as well.

Benefit from what? For me the balance and fit is everything so why make it shorter? My 400 H&H has 25 inch barrel and I have never felt to make it different.

quote:

Originally posted by CZ:
Benefit from what? For me the balance and fit is everything so why make it shorter? My 400 H&H has 25 inch barrel and I have never felt to make it different.

I agree.

I happen to like short barrel guns. My 375H&H Brno 602ZKK and my CZ 550 Magnum 416Rigby both have their barrels at 21". No Particular meaning to the 21 just wanted it near 20. I'm probably not the only one since I have a 458WinMag on an 03 Springfield that was built by A&M probably in the 50's and it has a barrel that is 16" and is obviously original. Have no idea who it was built for. My last safari was made with the 416Rigby and the Elephant I took with it had no objections to it's length. One of my favorite shotguns for birds was also short barreled from the factory and they advertised it as such playing up the short and handy aspect. Remington used to include in their ballistics listings a formula calculating the loss for every inch of barrel you cut. It was insignificant in overall performance. I have found the short barrels to be very handy in Africa especially getting into and out of vehicles ( I never put my rifles in any truck rack preferring to hold them at all time). I actually prefer the looks also. I would say if I have the choice I prefer a very stiff barrel in contour and like none of the really slender profiles. As I have said before ,just one old mans opinion and you are perfectly free to disagree.

I've only been hunting for about 45 years so I know that I'm a relative newbie here but I've never had an issue with a barrel being to long on my hunting guns.

All my regular hunting guns have 24" to 26" barrels and I've never wanted them shorter.

you guys are right. I will leave it alone...

Rich

How you like your rifle to " hang " for.lack.of a better word is imo your single biggest criteria. My 2 416 Taylor's and my current 458 Win Mag were set up as fighting rifles. They balanced perfectly between the hands. No muzzle hang. They were are ideal for instantly getting on target but were more dicey for the longer shots as they will bobble around quite easy they have 18",19"+20" . The 24+25" barrels or my Interarms and CZ 375s, 416+458s settled down easier for more precise shots. Not that I haven't done some nice shooting with the short barrel rifles. Lots of practice really helped that out.
I prefer short barrel rifles, my first 458 had a 19" barrel, my 500 A-Square had a 21" both.of my 416 Rem mags had 22"

One thing I've learned is the rifle I have with me is the one that takes the most game. Short barreled rifles are just easier to have with all the time.
I chopped the barrel on my 6.5 Creedmoor from the factory 26" to 18.6" finished. I lost over 200 fps velocity but gained huge handiness. Didn't loose any inherent accuracy. It was a win win.
The only slight hesitation I have with the 400 Whelan is it seems to need 23.6" of barrel length. . But, as it will be more of a hunting as opposed to a fighting rifle, I think that will be fine.

Danny told me, on the 510 wells, that anything past 18" is the owner's choice, but little is gained

You guys are talking about a 6 inch spread 20 to 26 inches, my pocket knife is about that size for goodness sake..

I have never felt like there was anything but BS and conversation for a difference. I like 20, 21,22, 24 and 26, have used them all and liked them all. I went back and fourth of many years swearing by one then another, then one day I woke up! ..I don't believe a carbine offers anything in the thick bush over a 24 or even a 26 inch barrel, you cannot predeterming a limb or branchs location, a 15 inch barrel can catch on a limb...I do like a shorter gun of 20 to 22 inches in a saddle scabbard as they don't tend to poke the horse and they don't tend to grab a tree if I'm chasing something..other than that one suits me as well as the other.

In most cases a 26 inch barrel handles better for off hand and running shots, but I have seen 20 inch barrels that had just a tad more beef and they handled equally as well...Just my call and speaking for myself only.

quote:

I have never felt like there was anything but BS and conversation for a difference

Ray: I would respectfully disagree. In Zimbabwe I was behind my PH putting the final stalk on a herd of buffalo in the thick brush of Tiger Bay by "hoovering". This involved placing our rifles across our abdomen and inching forward by periodically lifting our butts by placing our weight on flat feet in front and palms to the ground in back. My 20" barrel Ruger Alaskan easily cleared the brush that the 416 Rigby CZ 25" barrel of the PH's rifle was continuously hanging up on. The 100 fps that I lost due to the shorter barrel sure seemed like a good trade.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
you guys are right. I will leave it alone...

Rich

I have 24" barrels on all of my big bore bolt guns, as well. Cheers. Chip.

Personally, I don't like short barrels. Learn how to carry a normal length barreled rifle in the crud. That said, there are exceptions, and I'm hunting with a chopped rifle this year.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I just had a 404 Jefferys built on a VZ-24 action.

A good friend, who has hunted Africa twice thinks I might benefit from cutting the 24" barrel down to 20" or so; citing handiness for DG.

Is it worth it, you think?

thanks,

Rich

WRONG!


There are extremely rare occasions when one might benefit from a short barrel - like hunting in the thick jungle of Central Africa.

We talked about this so many times with PHs who spend all their life hunting dangerous game.

Not a single one has ever complained of the length of the barrel of his rifle.

For someone that shoots buffalo at 165 yards, why would you be concerned with barrel length?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Danny told me, on the 510 wells, that anything past 18" is the owner's choice, but little is gained

this guy has made more big bores that any of us will ever own..

I put a 25 inch on my 416 Taylor way because it wasn't 24 or 26 and hangs and swings very well for off hand shots.

I own rifles with barrels between 16 and 27 inches.

The one I have in my hands at the time is my favorite.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
For someone that shoots buffalo at 165 yards, why would you be concerned with barrel length?

I shoot them at any distance I get the chance at.

My longest one was over 300 yards - across a river.

Bullet went through his heart, as he was facing us at an angle.

Took two steps and dropped dead

I don't think barrel length in itself makes that much difference for big bores. The most important thing is balance, and that depends on the stock design mare than anything. My big bore bolt actions (416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs) both have 23 inch barrels, just because I think that is what will work, and my gunsmith designed stocks that make them balance. In the end it is personal preference, and you can make anything work from 20 to 26 inches. You get a little more muzzle blast from short barrels, but for big bores, the velocity required doesn't need a long barrel. For smaller magnum calibres (like my 338 Win Mag) a I believe a 24 inch barrel is needed, other wise you end up with excessive nuzzle flash, loss of velocity and a lot more noise than necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
For someone that shoots buffalo at 165 yards, why would you be concerned with barrel length?

I shoot them at any distance I get the chance at.

My longest one was over 300 yards - across a river.

Bullet went through his heart, as he was facing us at an angle.

Took two steps and dropped dead

I have found when hunting some thing the idea is to kill it.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
For someone that shoots buffalo at 165 yards, why would you be concerned with barrel length?

I shoot them at any distance I get the chance at.

My longest one was over 300 yards - across a river.

Bullet went through his heart, as he was facing us at an angle.

Took two steps and dropped dead

I have found when hunting some thing the idea is to kill it.

Exactly!

I shortened my .458WM barrel from 25" down to 21" and it has completely changed the rifle - for the better. It is so much more handier in the thick stuff now..
I'll never have a long barrel on a big bore again...

Cheers,

Russ.

My 404 Jeffery, and 450/400 3 inch have 26 inch barrels. All else is heresy!

Agreed Rusty.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
For someone that shoots buffalo at 165 yards, why would you be concerned with barrel length?

I shoot them at any distance I get the chance at.

My longest one was over 300 yards - across a river.

Bullet went through his heart, as he was facing us at an angle.

Took two steps and dropped dead

I have found when hunting some thing the idea is to kill it.

Exactly!

Do you think a shorter barrel would have helped?

I cut my .416 Rem bbl down to 22 and much prefer it. It has killed buffalo from 15 yards to past 300.

Several years ago I talked to a PH who was booking hunts at the Dallas Safari show! As we talked the theme turned to rifles for follow-up. The PH laughed and told me of his follow-up rifle which was a pre-64 Mod 70 .458 Win Mag which he had the barrel cut back to 18 inches, and placed in a black synthetic stock. He said he used this rifle to follow wounded Buffalo, and Lion into tight cover. He laughed again and told me his trackers and other members of his hunting party named the rifle after shooting it once, they call the rifle the “ BLACK BITCH” because of the recoil and muzzle flash from the short barrel.

I personally prefer a double rifle for such things, but also had a double rifle built on a Browning BSS action chambered for 30-30 Win for use while following bear and MT. lion hunting dogs, and another one made the same way chambered for 41Rem Mag to go along with a 41Rem Mag Ruger Blackhawk belt gun. Both worked very well in tight bush, and/or climbing into high trees to get a shot at a treed bear or lion.

Though I prefer longer barrels on my double for hunting I see little reason for barrels over 24 and 26 inches. Longer barrels are simply not needed for proper ballistics, or for balance. A double rifle can be made to balance with any length barrels! The 28 and 30 inch barrels on double rifles and shotguns are simply a hold over from the black powder days when the long barrels were actually needed to get the velocity needed, but with modern powder, and shot cups in shotguns, and modern powder in rifles the long barrels are simply not needed for any practical purpose other than personal choice.

......................................................................

Rich,
Leave them alone at 24 inches, that will be just right. If you cut them off the gun will have more recoil and noise plus a shorter sighting radius, something that nobody has mentioned yet. Bob

Makes no difference at all as to handiness, unless you're on a horse, in a vehicle or inside a building. Longer and heavier barrels do hang better and thus make for more stable aiming and shooting. Plus, they tend to make a man-sized rifle feel and balance better. And short barrels make for louder and sharper muzzle blast as well.

Mine are almost all long - 24-26 inches.

I'm so used to 26 and longer barrels that a 24 feels short, a 22 chopped off and a 20 hopelessly deformed.

After shooting 30 or so rounds thru the 404J and its 25" barrel, and the 460 G&S/450 RUM at half an inch longer, I am going to leave well enough alone. They balance well, swing easy, and hang very steady.

I appreciate the advice here from all of you.

I am still thinking the 9,3x62 might look better shortened to 21". There is a very fine figured mannlicher stock at www.walnutgrovegunstocks.com that Chris has about ready for me to pick up next week.