The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Questions about .500 A-SquareGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have had a PH action on order from MRC forever now. I talked to the people at MRC today and they said that it would be another three or four months which is exactly what they told me three or four months ago  Anyway, if it does come through, I am trying to figure out what to do with it. I had originally thought about a .505 Gibbs but I don't really care for the Gibbs. It's really big, eats a lot of powder and, as a consequence, kicks like hell. I got to thinking that a .500 A-Square would be a lot more practical so I told MRC to change my PH action to a Rigby bolt face. For those of you that have a .500 A-Square, could you give my your thoughts? How do you like it? How about brass? Do you just buy 460 Weathery brass and size it up or do you buy .500 A-Square brass? Is it hard to get .500 A-Square brass? Is it really pricey? Any information you could give me would be greatly appreciated.Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | ||
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I like mine, very versatile and easy to load. Fireform 378/416/460 Wby brass and presto. Don't know about properly headstamped brass, have never used it. Plinking loads using 535 gas check bullets @ 1500-1900 (or faster, Jeffe takes them to 2400), 570 Woodleighs @ 2450 or 647 milsurps @ 2300. More bullet choices if you go with .510 caliber than .505. Also, the 505 case is excessively large unless you are really going for max. If I built a Gibbs, it would be a 510 Gibbs.  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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The .500 A2 is very easy to feed and supply. The nostalgia quotient is non-existent, but the utility is very high. FWIW, I'm very happy with mine. Do you really want to pay more than $3/case for brass? More than $1.50/bullet? People say, "well, you only shoot 30 or 40 round a year", but that's certainly not true in my case. I enjoy shooting my rifle and will pop off 15 - 20 rounds per session. I have nothing against the traditional .50 caliber cartridges. They're great and I hope people continue to make and shoot them. But the .500 A2 is very convenient to own and shoot. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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I got cast 590gr .506" bullets going over 2200fps with zero leading in my 505 Gibbs. They cost me about eight cents apiece to cast, size, gas check and lubricate. They also feed like factory. I always question the deal about larger selection of bullets for the 505. How many different bullets would you actually buy and use? By casting I can shoot as much as I like, and I can always download for practice. The Gibbs case is 30% +/- larger capacity than the 500 A2. Physics tells me that is a lot lower pressure at the same MV or a lot more MV/ME at the same pressure. But, that's just me. Rich | |||
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Rich, In all fariness, how does the 500 A2 compare to the 510 KX? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Just for fun, take a close look at the ballistics of the .495 A2. Art Alphin has been quoted as saying that if he had it to do over, he would only have done the .495. See what you think. | |||
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.500a2 and be carefull of what Art says.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Dave I do have mine for almost two years now. F/form 460 Weatherby cases for it, shooting 570 gr Barnes XLC and 600 gr Rhinos for softs and 600 gr Dzombo bullets for solids. Downloaded both to 2230 ft/sec. More than enough penetration, will shoot ALMOST trough a broadside ele, and a little down on the recoil. Mine is no fancy gun, Bruno ZKK 602 action with synthetic Armtech (SA) stock and 21" barrel. Droped mag, takes 4. Love mine Francois Marais PH Namibia sfm@iway.na | |||
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I have the 458 Lott and it doesn't shoot your bullets as fast as you can but it can kill them just as dead. | |||
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Viewing cartridges to restart (600 OK, 500 A-Square etc...) I ever feel the 458 Lott I have is a cartridge small and little powerful, and even inadequate to hunt species dangerous  jejeje.Oscar. I am Spanish My forum:www.armaslargasdecaza.com | |||
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Dave, I'm the least experienced 'big bore' person on this thread. My experience consists of shooting a couple critters in Tanzania with a Harris Talon in 500A2, borrowed from my PH friend. He shot it like it was a 30-06; I watched him shoot meat impala with it from the window of the hunting vehicle. He must be made from tougher cloth than me. While sighting it in standing with a rest, three shots was all I could handle. 'Intense' was how I described it. That particular rifle was very lightweight. My every day 'big' rifle is a .375 that weighs at least two pounds more and I can handle it pretty good. That particular rifle was way light for the caliber IMHO. I shot a 'buff with it (dead right there), impala, and both a Grant's and Thompson gazelle with it. Shooting a 40 pound (maybe) Tommy with it was fun. I dropped down prone and while properly anchored to the ground (meaning no give for the recoil)and fired. I think I ended up bleeding more than the Tommy. Had a good whack over the eye brow, and fingers of the trigger hand anywhere near the trigger guard took decent whacks. Lots of luck finding 500A2 headstamped brass. I tried very hard for awhile wanting to impress my PH friend. He ended up simply using the big Weatherby stuff and neck up. | |||
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I have very little experience with the 500 a2. I have shot one a couple of times. They are quite intense from a recoil stand point. I would never want one that weighed less that 11 lbs and I think that 13 would be about right. Dudley and Clinton Rogers use them and Kirk Merington used a 500 jeffery a lot. They spend a lot of time in very thick stuff with elephants and Buffalo and the extra horse power is welcomed under those circumstances. it is all very subjective but I have had 4 people with lots of experience say that the big 50 cals really do make a difference in stopping animals that are shot coming or going away. The 500 a2 is definitely the most practical of what I would refer to as buffalo and elephant fighting rifles. As for just having one to shoot for fun....... Well each to his own.  If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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If the rifle fits you and is of reasonable weight, it's actually fun to shoot. My rifle weights 11.5 lbs, 12.0 lbs with a full magazine and has a forward (scout-style) scope. Many criticize the A2 rifles, and I'll freely admit they are no works of art (although they are, in fact, works of Art), but mine, on the whole, fits me quite well. The pistol grip shape is un-natural and different from most rifles, which is quirky and takes some use to grow accustomed. The first shooting session left me with a badly bruised and swollen right hand from where the bolt knob battered it. Eventually, I learned to hold on tight with **both** hands and no longer have that problem. A2 quirks aside, it takes 7-10 sessions to grow accustomed to the recoil. I freely admit that the first couple of sessions are a shock and you certainly don't want to start shooting if you have an incipient headache. But the rifle fits you, then you won't get hurt. The recoil is a gigantic shove rather than a vicious slap. Once again, your world will rock when you touch off a round for the first time, but it doesn't actually hurt any. Once you realize that it doesn't hurt, even if you do get shoved around a bunch, the anticipation of punishment vanishes and you just roll with the punch. I can actually rapid fire my rifle quite easily for 3 or 4 rounds in succession without sustaining any undue punishment. I do have my rifle mag-na-ported which I feel helps greatly with muzzle jump and the perception of recoil. I hate muzzle brakes and, barring injury, will never own one. Mag-na-porting has a meaningful effect without rendering the rifle obnoxious to me; I know many don't care for the process, but I'm a fan. I'm not sure that I would put a conventionally mounted scope on a .500 A2. If I did, I'd certainly be exceedingly careful about the eye relief. With 100+ lbs of recoil, something really bad will happen if you get hit by a scope. I have yet to take my rifle to Africa; I had plans for an elephant hunt in Zim, but one of my daughters moved back in and now I'm (gladly) paying for college again. When that's done, I'll be going back to Africa. I've always wanted to shoot a hippo on land, which is the real reason why I originally bought this rifle. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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  ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Imagine that! The coilcek stock (or whatever A Square calls it doesn't fit for sh!t). My 500 A2 with a normal express rifle style stock doesn't do the rap knuckle on bolt handle thing. Doesn't recoil a scout mounted scope. Doesn't require 7 to 10 shooting sessions to get "used" to it, because it FITS properly. Etc, etc, etc! By the way, a 500 A2, Jeffery, AHR, 505 Gibbs, all kick very hard relative to your typical 300, 338, 375, 416, or even 458. | |||
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I couldn't help myself, Charles. Once I had written "are no works of art", the temptation was simply too strong for me to withstand. I freely admit that I've never met a pun I didn't like.  analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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wow -- you had a A2 rifle now, as well as a 505 gibbs, 500 AHR (did you EVER get the stock thing worked out) and a 577/500? Wow, scotty, if anyone could believe a word you say, you might be impressive. But, you do provide us some entertainment
opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I have to admit it was a good one.  ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Jeff, Cannot recall ever owning a 500/577. Did own a 577 NE light double for a while (2.75" case). Never owned a 505 Gibbs either, but my father did. Close personal friend of the family once owned a 500NE 3" double (it was a H&H to boot). To set the record straight. Over the years I have owned two 500A2 rifles. I currently still have one (having fun right now scrubbing all the Barnes copper out of the bore, I hate TSX bullets!!!  ). I have the 500 AHR too, the stock was worked out many many years ago, and that rifle has killed a few buffalo, as has the latest 500A2 albeit not as many as the 500 AHR. I have actually posted pictures of both those rifles laying on a bison robe with a couple skulls (bison and cape buffalo if IIRC).Currently only own two other big bore, a 458 Win mag (posted pics of it also albeit in working mule state ie no irons and not the final stock) and a 416 Taylor. My daughter is rather fond of the 458. In recent years I have significantly "thinned the herd" of firearms I own. Have a great weekend buddy. | |||
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Man, being pathological must be handy .. I'll pass, though REALLY???? \ Wow, I can't imagine why I would ever have come up with that? No, wait, it might be YOU browbeating me over YOU owning one and KNOWING everything about it., http://forums.accuratereloadin...151088301#8151088301
opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeff, Well you caught me there, I was definitely lying on that one. | |||
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Which isn't anything but acknowledgement of your bad behavoir. You called anothe rman a LIAR and shat upon him to back up your own lies. Scott, you've been caught in a MILLION little lies .. this thread is another one.. you have NEVER owned a 500 jeffery .. you MAY have owned a 500 ahr, which is NOT interchangable, and no, its not close enough. Call a thing what it is. Those that can't be trusted to tell the small truths are most certainly liars with the bigger ones. You've stated MANY times that YOU owned a 505 gibbs, rebored rsm.. suddenly its your dad's .. and YOU 500 NEdoublerifle suddenly becomes a close personl friends. .. but its an HH this time, not the jones underlever you have claimed it to be. Listen up .. its MUCH better when you talk about reality .. YOUR reality ... and the specific facts about them ... if YOU don't own it, don't claim it as YOURs ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Scotts fictious experience with the .500a2 is dismissed. Who in their right mind listens to anything he has to say? Its a great cartridge and its recoil is way over exagerated. Most who actually shoot them find out quickly that its fabulous on game and easy to shoot well in addition to being extremely easy to reload for. The single best cartridge ever to have come out of A-square.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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be gentle guys, he's probably off his meds again... Jeffe, sorry I missed your early post. The only significant difference is mine has no belt. RGB, nothing to add to your last comment RE the 500A2. It definitely works! Rich wait'll I get my two-bore | |||
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You boys are too smart for me! As always when you are full of it my statements come to YOUR rescue!!! I really have never given a shit if you believe me or not, there are literally hundreds of REAL people who know me and the truth!!!!!!!!!!! I hate to break this to you, but you are simply an internet person, aka LOSER! PS "you are right I have never owned a big bore nor hunted anything let alone dangerous game" PPS - Actually shooting the rifle over the last 25+ years and killing a few head of game. That is real world not this internet BS. By all means though you, Rob, and Rich carry on it is most humorous!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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I've told the guys at MRC to put a Rigby bolt face on my PH action if I ever get it and the current plan is to make it into a .500 A-Square. I was planning on doing a Gibbs but the .500 A-Square just makes more sense. However, I really have no desire to hot-rod it. I just want to duplicate the ballistics of the vaunted .500 NE, maybe a 570 grain TSX bullet at around 2100-2150 fps. Anyone have any load data that might accomplish that result? Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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If you read my posts on this thread http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3381074711/p/1 you will find my test results from my A2 Hannibal in .500 A2. The short answer is that it's very easy to achieve your results with H4895, RL15, Varget or IMR 4350. My guess is that somewhere between 105 and 108 gr of H4895 will do what you want, which would be a moderate load in my rifle. Note: as I wrote in the linked to thread, I took two of the A2 loading book loads and shot them in my rifle to compare my results to theirs. I was very fortunate in that my results tracked almost exactly with the results in the A2 loading manual. From the thread: Today I tested the following loads: Barnes TSX 570 gr .509. 115.0 Varget for 2290 115.0 Varget for 2306 113.0 H4895 for 2306 (again; not a typo) 113.0 H4895 for 2302 Barnes Banded Solid 570 gr .509 113.0 H4895 for 2372 113.0 H4895 for 2368 analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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91 grains of IMR3031 with a COL of 3.7" gave me 2190 fps with moderate powder compression, out of a 23" barrel. | |||
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opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Let's try to get this one back on track. I'm thinking if you figure the 505 Gibbs kicks like hell, the 500 A2 might not be the answer. I'm half way between your choices with a 500 Jeffrey, and yes, 600 gr. bullets moving over 2000 fps will get your attention, burning a bit less powder really isn't the solution. But if you just have to get a 50, the A2 makes the most sense in regards to available brass and bullets, and no exotic work to make it feed. While I'm not a huge A-sq fan, the 500 is a very good and practical design. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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I'll vote for ISS's 505 Gibbs due to nostalgia. Jack OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.} | |||
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Paul, CZ seems to handle that sort of "exotic work" rather easily, at least the one sitting here next to the computer does. Since the PH action started on a clear screen specifically for the 505 Gibbs, any of those piddly little cartridges might need the "exotic" rework, not the mighty Gibbs. You do understand that the A2 is going to operate at a lot more pressure for the same ballistics dues to a smaller capacity case. Rich 505 Gibbs: same action, lower pressure, more MV and ME. | |||
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Clinton Rogers ask me to post this for him. He's in the states for the shows and will be in Dallas next week. He has LOTS of experience with actually using the 500 A2 Hi, I use a 500 A-Square as my primary weapon for guiding and I love it - I feel a bit of a traitor to my 458 Lott as it is a fine caliber and has saved my bacon several times before I got the 500. Both are CZ550 but the 500 has a McMillan Stock with Mercury Recoil Reducer (about 11lbs). Not sure if it needs the MRR as I have never shot the rifle without it. Even with the Reducer the recoil took some getting used to but once I got the hang of it (Key: hanging on to it), it feels just like the 458 except a lot heavier to carry around. My Dad (Also a PH in Zim) went with the 495 A-Square first but had it changed to 500 after an oops with the 495 (Another story). You can shoot 495 amo in the 500 (a plus)! Another plus is when fire-forming brass for the 500, you don’t need to trim it as you would for the 495. Altogether a wonderful caliber I think if you can handle it and like to hunt DG regularly or if you just like to feel like you can take on a Trex. If I had to complain it would be that the penetration is too much as it often sails straight through an elephant broad side with enough velocity to travel through a second elephant broad side (Has been done once)!!! We have since loaded our ammunition down to about the same as the 495 and considered using softs on elephant. This would require a premium soft though in the category of the Swift A-Frame who up to now do not make the 510 Caliber. I have not tested it to be sure that it is safe though. We are using the 600gr barnes super solid, & now their 570gr triple shock bullets, both with much success and the accuracy of these bullets are phenomenal. Hope this info is helpful!! If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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