boom stick,
Don't think I'm doing this just because you whined for it.

L-R:
.375 Ruger with Hornady 270-grain SP
.395 Ruger with GS Custom 340-grain HV, loaded long for fun
.416 Ruger with Barnes 400-grain "Banded" brass solid
.423 Ruger with North Fork 380-grain FP solid
.458 Ruger with Hornady 500-grain steel FMJ


Not perfect but good enough for now I hope!!!

thanks riperino!

Talk about pouncing on that cart!!! All over that like a wildcat!!

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=265

the 425 westley richards has the same capacity as the 375 ruger (.425 is 435"dia for those that dont know) and the base is similar enough so that you could use 425 wr dies and loads to make the biggest dia on the ruger case. the old school w.r. did 410@ 2350 for perspective.

an unrebated w.r. is kinda a neet idea

the 458 ruger would need to be blown out to the minimum body taper to work but verrrrrry iffy even for me. thanks again rip.

imho the 416 ruger will be imho the best factory big bore bolt action d.g. cart to come in nearly 100 years

but the 395 will have more pizzaz and the 411/423 will have the most class

RIP,
Thank you for the time, trouble, and effort spent on those.
I see what you mean about lack of sufficient shoulder on the .458. The .416 looks good with that Barnes bullet, but I think, since we're going to have .395s, that the .423 would be a nice step up.
Oh, as I noted on the aviation forum, they're trying to raise Randy Brooks (owner of Barnes) airplane from a lake. He was flying low when suddenly a wingtip dipped...

i guess the 458 will have the same shoulder blown out as the 10.75x68 (13.5 thou per side)


the capacity would split the diff between the 458 win mag and the lott...what approx 103 or 104 grains...

.423 Ruger

That's dead sexy!

yeah, the 423 kinda draws yer eye like a redhead in a pack of blondes...

fjold i assume you were using the "fat bastard" accent...

Not really needed when the 458 AR is everything needed and then some. Neck the Ruger to 366 & 395. All else bigger, is covered by the AR's.

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
Not really needed when the 458 AR is everything needed and then some. Neck the Ruger to 366 & 395. All else bigger, is covered by the AR's.

yuppppppp!

the only advantage the 416 ruger will have over the 416 a.r. is buying at wally mart

anyone have a .425 w.r. bullet they can send to rip?

the 416 ruger is the death nail for the 416 taylor.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
anyone have a .425 w.r. bullet they can send to rip?

No thanks boomie.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP: No thanks boomie.

Yeah ... send him a 0.411" instead ... at least we have "varmint", medium game and large game projectiles for that one!

Boomie...
If you havent already, do a search for the 435PH ... a 375H&H length 0.435" cartridge using a special run of Woodleigh 450gr 0.435" projectiles. Neck sized using 44Mag dies ... my kind of 'cat!!
Cheers...
Con

RIP,

please take a minute and measure the shoulder and the neck on the 458 Round. Are you getting close to the numbers I got on my 510KX?

Rich
DRSS

PS: thanks for the work on showing real world wildkitties on the Ruger 375!

Thanks for the lineup RIP! Looks like a .423 Ruger might be in my future.

Rip,
The .423 will be and has always been my favorite for whatever reason that really has little merit as they are all about the same in the field, and the .416 bore is more practical.

What is interesting in those cases is the .458, It has more case capacity than the 375 H&H case, therefore it should outperform the 458 Lott since the 375 Ruger outperforms the .375 H&H. Is my thinking right?

the 458 win mag is 95
the lott is 110
the ruger would be about 104 sooo closer to the lott but close

so performance wise being a little more efficient you could expect about 1% velocity loss of the lott so figure 500@ 2275 at the same preasure if the 1 to 4 ratio holds

but it seems the 416 will be a good round (the best factory d.g. cart to come since the 416 rigby imho) and the 423 will be a matter of style...

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/44010427

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/60210427

a good thread to debate the 458 ruger concept

Ray,
Boomie has got it figured pretty close to the way I see it too. A .458/.375 Ruger wiil beat the .458 WinMag handily, but fall short of the .458 Lott.

Here are the gross water displacements of a 1 inch long bullet shank of the following calibers:

.458: 41.6 grains H2O
.423: 35.5 grains
.416: 34.3 grains
.395: 30.9 grains
.375: 27.9 grains

By necking up from .375 to .458, figure roughly 4.5 grains increase for the .458/.375 Ruger = 101.1 + 4.5 = 105.6 grains gross water capacity.

Still less than the .458 Lott gross water capacity of 110 to 112 grains H2O depending on brass source.

I think the .458/.375 Ruger shoulder at .017" step per side on the solitary dummy I made, is marginal but sufficient for a careful handloader: not a best DGR candidate.

Rough step down per side at shoulder-neck for the .375 Ruger cats:

.375: 55 thou
.395: 48 thou
.416: 37 thou
.423: 33.5 thou
.458: 17 thou

This is just measured from the boogered dummies pictured above, therefore an approximation from necked up once-fired brass, and a solitary reloaded .375 Ruger dummy with unfired/deprimed factory .375 Ruger having the bullet reseated and lightly crimped.

The .458/.375 Ruger does beat the 10.75x68mm Mauser by about 3.5 thou per side.

It beats the 400 Whelen too, eh?

I am still guessing the .375 Ruger shoulder at 25 to 35 degrees, might as well just say 30 degrees, my guess. Nobody has the official spec yet?

thanks rip for the readings...i am surprised the ruger has 17 thou...it is enough and could be fire formed out a bit more to about 20 per side but as is not bad and figure the loss of about 25 fps off the lott at the same preasure.

so because of more circumfrence we are dealing with more headspace than the 411 hawk.



and more than the loveable 10.75x68

its official...there will be some 458 roogers made i betya...

now my idea of the 458 rooger shooting 45-70 bullets out of a short action is back on. shoot 45-70 bullets @ win mag + velocities. rechamber the browning blr 450 marlin to 450 ruger and get 400 more fps! not bad just keep the oal under 3"

I have been pushing for a 458 on a head .532 dia. case with a case length that will fit in an 06 length action for a year or more now. Looks like the Gurus now think it possible. Anyone want to build me one?

465H&H

For the daring: Just rechamber a .458 WinMag with 3.4" box length, and get about a 10% case capacity increase with the .458 Ruger.
Handloaders delight.

However, that would leave a sloppy factory throat. It would be best to start with a new barrel and throat like the standard .458 Lott.

This is a job for a custom reamer. Who will be first? Not me. Too many irons in the fire already ...

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I have been pushing for a 458 on a head .532 dia. case with a case length that will fit in an 06 length action for a year or more now. Looks like the Gurus now think it possible. Anyone want to build me one?

465H&H

we have our first taker!

125 fps over the win mag...

I blame boom stick for this.

thanks

so with our collective genious...

what are the advantages of the 458 rooger over the win mag and lott.

the obvious 458 ruger advantages

no belt

125 fps over the win mag asuming the win gets 2150 and the lott 2300 with 500 grainers at the same preasure.

it has more than "minimal" performance on big game, a quasi stopper.

better feeding.

any others?

As far as a wildcat, is not the .458 AR a better idea? Well, a rebated rim, but a small one at that, and more volume without sacrifice magazine capasity.
?
And really, as a wildcat, how about the .460 G&A Short/.450 Howell?

But it IS the new kid on the block, I'll give you that....

the 458 a.r. is better.

the 458 ruger has got me thinking about one of my favorite wildcat creations...

the 458 ruger has 17.5 thou shoulders with its 515 shoulder dia

but my 404 jeffe necked up and trimmed to 2.65" or 68 mm no other changes has 20 thou shoulders with its .520 shoulder dia. which seems to be the new "exceptable standard" around here...it is basicly a 450 howell or 460 g+a short like bent said but unimproved...use a 404 reamer and a 458 neck/throat reamer and if you want use rum brass resized in 404 fl dies to save cash. it would be slightly more capacity than the lott but the 458 a.r. would be better in almost all aspects.

here is a pic of the 404, 450 vincent long and short. i am guessing the short is about 2.5" the dummy i have is 2.65" at that length there is a cal length neck and the original great feeding shoulder.

After drooling over the .416 and the .423, I believe I may have to sacrifice my .338 Win and have it rebarreled. Perhaps if Ruger/Hornady legitimize the .416 as expected, I'll send the .338 off for a makeover. I've been wanting to try the .325 WSM as a mid-range cartridge anyway...

Hmm, my "new fangled" rifle battery for nearly all things big and small: .270 WSM, .325 WSM, .416 Ruger. Of course I'll keep the .223, .243, .257, and 6.5X55.

Well,
Anybody building a .458 Ruger yet? I might be able to do it by next year.

One little correction, noted from studying the standard CIP chamber dimensions since my posting above: Same throat dimensions for both the .458 Lott and the .458 WinMag. The early Jack Lott wildcat version had a different (tighter) throat.

Just rechambering a .458WinMag to .458 Ruger would be a great conversion for the handloader.

the sad news, from "in-the-know" sources at the SHOT Show is: due to the Rick Jamison lawsuits, manufacturers are about 99% likely to say "no thanks" to even the neatest wildcats shown them. NIH syndrome, Not Invented Here; has taken over most of the industry. When I passed my 550 around, half of the arms and ammo mfgrs thought it was neat, the other half said "unless a factory dreams it up they won't touch it, sorreeeeee....". A prominent ammunition manufacturer said even if I provided them with all sorts of releases it would take them a year to research enough to clear it for commercialization. Fortunately, there is enough documentation on AR to pre-date any attempts to steal it. Still talking, but it's a long hard road. The very fact that people are doing a 416 Ruger is working against the factory ever adopting it. Sad... From what I heard, the best way to guarantee that Ruger would not do a 416 would have been for me to take a dummy loaded round out of my pocket and show it to them with a 15 second video that showed me shooting one.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

IS,
There ya go again worried about commercial success which ain't the point.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Well,
Anybody building a .458 Ruger yet? I might be able to do it by next year.

One little correction, noted from studying the standard CIP chamber dimensions since my posting above: Same throat dimensions for both the .458 Lott and the .458 WinMag. The early Jack Lott wildcat version had a different (tighter) throat.

Just rechambering a .458WinMag to .458 Ruger would be a great conversion for the handloader.

...........Yes ,Ive been going over it ....It would be pretty ideal in my little 458 ,as I want to get 2800 fps from it with the 300 gr X and 315 gr GSC HV ....I guess all that would be needed is a 375 Ruger reamer with a changeable pilot and a go guage ......

Well did you talk about the 458 Lott

Mentioned above, for all who can read.