Not sure whether to post here or in the Gunsmithing Forum:

It was my understanding that the Win Mod 70 action was "just a bit too short" to handle the 416 Rigby. However I see that the Win Custom Shop offers it chambered in two of their African configurations. Anyone have experience with the Rigby in the Mod 70 in terms of feed, reliability etc? If it works why don’t we see it more often considering the popularity of the action and the Rigby?

Thanks
Paul
Win Custom Shop 416 Rigby

Many guys think that the 416 Rigby is too big a cartridge for the Model 70 action. USRAC's Custom Shop has indeed managed to make the Model 70 Classic work with this cartridge, via a significantly altered box and follower system, plus extensive loading port and feed ramp work. I've seen one example of a USRAC/CS M-70 416 Rigby, and it looked OK.......

The only true best-grade Model 70 in 416 Rigby that I've examined and have actually handled was a full-house custom pre-64 Model 70 that D'Arcy Echols built in his 'Classic' grade for a client. I looked this rifle over at SCI very carefully a few years ago at Echols' booth, and it was a beauty. Since Echols won't send a rifle out the door that doesn't work and function 100%, I'm sure it worked better than well.

AD

The new classic is a tad longer than the pre 64 win...so thats a plus...

I have seen several English guns in .416 Rigby made on std 98 Mauser actions...MY friend and PH has a lovely westley Richards in 416 Rigby on a 98 Mauser action...He would part with it and its been shot a lot and never has he had a failure...so I suspect it can be done....

Sometime my fingers outrun my brain, common at my age...
His name is Paul Zorn and he would NOT part with it...see above post..

it's a question of $$ to effort...

a winchester 416 rem, runs 900 bucks, and then you start paying $$$$$ for alterations.

a ruger, which is a high quality rifle, can be had for 1300...

assuming that you keep the barrel, and have it rechambered, there's only $400 to play with, for gunsmithing and work, to be even.

and when you throw in the cz for 750, it's a hard economic question. It's HARD to justify the economics of doing a m70 to rigby... unless you have alot of time and machines on hand.

If you assume the reality of it, that doing would have directionally 1500-2000 dollars in gunsmithing fees to get the model 70 right (that's 30-40 hours at $50.. or 80 at $25) which is fair, you soon find that just buying a 1500-2000 granite arms, vektor, etc, action and working from there.. or even a dakota, you are economicaly further ahead...

oh, and that ANY other action except the ruger and winchester would hold more than 2 down.
opps, forgot that you COULD rebarrel any 378/460 based weatherby as well, but it would hold 2 down.

I think that's really why

jeffe

Personally I would not want a .416 Rigby on an m70......period I don't really care who made it. I also would not want a .500 J on an m98 even though there a sweet thing when done by a good smith, I just think it's pushing the barrow. For me a .404 J is the biigest thing I would put in an m98 and I feel thats bordering on being to much.........this is just my opinion however

I must apologize for providing erroneous information. That Echols 'Classic' I mentioned was in .416 Rem. Mag., not .416 Rigby. D'Arcy has never built a .416 Rigby on a Model 70 action. He currently uses the large Hartmann & Weiss Mauser action if he builds a .416 Rigby.

My memory must be slipping!

AD

Winchester IS NOT Offering the M-70 in .416 Rigby. They tried that rifle/cartridge combination a few years back with the results outlined in the previous posts. I realize that Winchester's web-site says they offer the .416 from the custom shop. About 3 months ago I called and talked to Leslie Dengler, who runs the custom shop. According to her the web-site is incorrect and needs to be updated. I was ready to order a Custom African Express myself...

The .416 Rem mag on an m70 now thats a nice thing.........do others think that things like the .500 J on the M98 action is pushing the barrow ??

PC,
i have a 550 express in a 98.....

and a 500 jeffe on a enfield...

heh

jeffe

Jeffo,

I know heaps of people do it......I have a.585 Nyati on a Brno .375, fits yeah, but I feel it's pushing the barrel. I have a .404 on an m98 on the way and I feel that stretches the friendship as well.

I just think the magum action is the go for these types of rounds and the bigger magnum actions for the stunt guns, Nyati's etc.

With some clever gunsmithing, one can trick an action to accept an overlength cartridge. I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Dave

.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
PC:

Why would you feel the 585 is pushing the barrel on a Brno 602 action when the 585 is way shorter than a 375 H&H ?

The 602 was for the longest time the only commercial true CFR Magnum available. If you cannot build it on a 602 action it cannot be built !

Alf,

I know what your saying.....maybe it's my silly mind, I just don't like the thin lip of metal left on the cz/Brno action bolt when you have the gibbs rim in there....it's just not a pefect situation, and youd don't have much metal on the bolts face left when you do some bigger rounds on the 98 either. I am awating my 1909 M98 .404 J which has only the stock work to go and I feel the m98 is at it's limit with the .404 regarding big rounds and saftey. I also here so much about 1909's being old metal and prone to setback and blowing up yada, yada on this forum, thats where I have developed this train of thought.

Alf help me work through this and convince me I am wrong, I mean a .500 J on an m98 to match my .404 would be sweet ........I do not have the gunsmithing knowledge of people on this forum and realise my thinking could wrong, I will accept correction

PC,

I think it should be fine and Waghorn thinks it is OK.

Are you worried about action set back with the big diameter case.

I think Seyfrieds Nyati was on an old Mauser.

Of course you could aways make one up on a 460 Wby Snow Camo DGR rifle, that would be an easy conversion. Being 500 Jeffery you would definitely have to get the Snow Camo stock or alternatively one of the flash wood stocks with the inlays

Actually in all seriousness I think the 404 would be as hard or harder on the action because with brass availability and lower recoil you would probably mean you would have it loaded to higher pressure than a 500 Jeffery.

Mike

.

MIke 500 & .404 J's in desret camo weatherby's........people here would cruisfy me

Alf, those are just great rifles !! Love that .404 J when I get mine done I am going to try and take some good pics of it to post here. I think it will be to your likeing.

PC, why not make up 404 and 500 in this Wby

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/stephen1965/10-06-05_1314.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/stephen1965/10-06-05_1313.jpg

Tasteful Mike !!

PC,

Have you ever see the Weaterby Guides that were out in the 60s and 70s. I had a few and gave then away. They are collectors items now.

Chock full of game pictures and of course the flash Wby. They also illustrate how the shooting scene has changed as you had all the celebrities and actors being presented their rifles.

The real great rifles were the birds eye maple with the fish scale checkering.

A lot of the inlays in those days were of animals.

The only negative from that period up until 1995 was the rifles were the counterparts of the Cheve Corvette and Dodge Viper but had Made in Japan written on them.

Mike