I have been trying to make my hunting rifle battery more functional to better suit my needs. I have decided that I want focus on my three main hunting rifles: a Husqvarna model 1640 6.5x55, a Krieghoff Ultra 12gauge/30-06 bockbuchsflinte (O/U combo), and a Winchester model 70 375H&H.

I have more or less finished the alterations to my Husqvarna it still needs a Brockman pop up peep). The Krieghoff needs no work. This leaves the Winchester.

I have posted on here before asking about reboring or rebarreling the rifle to a larger calibre as it is too heavy for a .375 in my opinion (9 lbs 15oz with unloaded, without scope or rings, but with bases). I have decided however that based on my hunting needs a .375 is more suitable for me than a larger bore. So I want to reduce the weight to 9 lbs or less (preferably 8.5). Can this be accomplished simply by cutting the barrel to 20 inches and slimming down the factory stock ? Or would it require reducing the contour of the barrel?

I like the idea of a thinner barrel but then I get into the cost of a new barrel, refitting sights and barrel band, rebluing, needing an entirely new stock, etc. which is currently out of the question.

So I am thinking of having the barrel cut to 20 inches and recrowned, then trimming down the stock myself and having it recheckered. I have no stock working experience but I do have plenty of patience and am confident that I can do it.

Is this idea resonable? How much weight can I actually ecpect to get rid of without weakening the stock too much? Or am I better off trying to find something lighter to replace the Winchester, such as a Whitworth?

Looking forward to hearing everyones opinions and advice.

Buy one of the synthetic stocks that came with the stainless steel model.

That may be enough to make it work for you.

George

Mine was rebarrelled and went into an Echols Legend and now weighs an even 9lbs all up.

George,

I was scared someone may suggest a synthetic stock. I'd rather stick to Walnut if possible, but I suppose that form follows function and that may be the easiest route to take. Would a synthetic also require me to cut the barrel to retain good balance?

jsl,

Do you mean 9lbs including scope? What is the length and contour of your new barrel?

I just took the stock off a Model 70 Classic SS in 300 RUM. Does anyone know if that would fit his 375 barreled action?

I've been thinking about fitting mine into a standard classic stock. Those safari express stocks are pretty dense, probably a significant weight difference, and the slimmer design will make it feel lighter too.

I put my P64 M70 375H&H into a syn stock. With a 1.5-5 VXIII it weighs just under 9lbs. Light enough to carry all day long but manageable recoil.
This pic shows it wearing the Kahles

Biebs and Dean,

I do like the idea of fitting it into a standard classic stock, and would be interested in one if it would work.

Blacktailer,

What type of stock did you use?

quote:

Originally posted by Canadaboy:
George,

I was scared someone may suggest a synthetic stock. I'd rather stick to Walnut if possible, but I suppose that form follows function and that may be the easiest route to take. Would a synthetic also require me to cut the barrel to retain good balance?

jsl,

Do you mean 9lbs including scope? What is the length and contour of your new barrel?

yup, 9lbs with scope. the barrel is a no 4 pac nor with a 1.75" shank and it is finished at 23". the stock has EDGE fill and is properly reinforced. it balances just ahead of the front action screw. personally, what I like about the Legend is the cast built into it as well as the somewhat open grip. it is very comfortable to say the least. minus the dressing it barely shades 8lbs.

I thought about getting one from CDNN and getting a few rasps and making sawdust...

The best way to reduce the weight of a .375 H&H is to trade it in on a 9,3X62, preferably a Blaser professional.

Dave, is that with one barrel or two? :-)

Sell it and build a 375 B&M that weighs 6.5 lbs with equal performance in a 20 inch barrel!

Michael

Well based on the advice so far I am considering selling some other stuff, and getting a new Heym barrel, a reblue (the factory blue is wearing off already anyway, even though it's only a year old), and putting it in an Echols legend stock. I'll have to make some sacrifices to do it, but that's life. I should end up with a great working gun, which is all I really want. It will likely take me a few months to raise the cash to do it, so in the meantime I am still interested in more opinions and suggestions.

Before:
Stainless synthetic winchester 70 classic. With -12 burris Black Diamand it wighed in at 11+ pounds in a hogue over molded stock.

AFter:
MPI ultra light kevlar stock, barrel cut to 20" and recountoured to a slimmer profile. All excess metal removed from the action and radical bolt fluting. Finished weight with the 1.5-5 VX III with brockman popup peep and talley qd rings was 7.5. Was well worth the work done to it.

want a light weight 375?
sell the winchester, get a ruger in 375 ruger, and keep going.. MANY (sissies) complain about the 375 ruger being too light

you can go to pacnor and use the weight calculator to see what 4 inches of cutoff barrel would be....

http://pac-nor.com/cgi-bin/pnb/bweight.cgi

a 24" # 3 weighes in at 3.23 (assuming .365 bore on a 375 groove)

20" comes in a 2.93 ..
4.8 oz ..

and if pushing 11# is your problem, barely over 10 isn't a help

If your Winchester is a pre 64 it would be foolish to mess with it, as its worth a lot of money as is..Like Jeffe says, sell it for three grand and buy yourself 3 Rugers or have yourself a nice Mauser 98 converted and custom stocked with the money..

Its no trick to come up with a 8.5 lb. 375 on a 98 mauser actions, I just sold one that had a 26 inch barrel and weighed 8.5 on the nose. It was an English rifle. I sold it for about what your 375 is worth..

If its a post 64, cut the barrel down, and hollow out the stock, maybe drill out the magazine box for a couple of ounces..and at 20 inches you could even turn the barrels down some, but don't get carried away on that.

You have a lot of options, just shop around until you find something that fits you. The 9.3x62 is a nice alternative, but as much as I love the 9.3x62, it loses out to the .375 anyway you cut when you get beyond about 200 to 300 yards.

All that said, I don't see anything wrong with a 10 lb. 375, it sure will make you a better shot off hand and for snap shooting..Light guns tend to be hard to steady in snap shooting, especially when your out of breath from a climb or run..I'm 77 and still pack the heavy guns by choice.

Don't worry I'm not about to butcher a pre 64!!! If thats what I had I would leave it in original condition. My rifle is one of the new South Carloina (F.N.) guns, so It's probably worth about $1,000 now that its been used.

I have weighed the current stock and the barreled action, and calculated the weight of the bare barrel. Based in these numbers I have calculated that a sandard Echol's legend stock and a 26 inch #4 contour Pacnor would bring it to 8.5 lbs on the dot. A Legend stock with Edge fill would bring the weight down to 8 lbs.

I think I may go for a 25 inch #4 and the standard weight stock. I agree with Ray's comments that too light is not a good thing when it comes to accuracy and that weight out front helps in offhand shooting. I think 8.5 lbs without a scope and a 25 inch barrel to keep the balance a bit forward would suit me well. Now its time to get a quote from the smith to see if its feasible.

Have you looked at a lighter scope and mounts?

Some of the scopes out there are real fatties.

I handled a Cabelas anniverasry 458 Win MOd 70 and it was a very nice weight. The stock was MUCH slimmer than my 375 and I think the barrel had a slightly slimmer profile (or so it seemed) and combined with the .458 bore it was quite nice.

The butt stock in the current Mod 70 375's is pretty thick. I think their objective was the spread out the recoil over more square inches to the shooters shoulder.
Might take off the recoil pad and drill some nickel sized holes in the butt stock and take out some wood. If you do this carefully and do not get too close to the wrist it should not effect the stock strength. I would consult a gunsmith. Not sure how much weight you might save????

The forend is where I noticed the most difference. It felt very nice and was slim right up to the receiver. As a matter of fact it felt a lot like a Dakota 375 I looked at at the same time.

I have the same problem with my .375 Model 70. but I've just about decided to leave it alone and do nothing. After all, I survived my 2011 safari carrying it. If I go back in 2013, I think I'll just practice hiking around home while carrying a 10 or 12 pound weight over my shoulder on a sling.

Besides, it's no more unpleasant to shoot than my 30-06. I'm not saying it doesn't kick harder. It's just that it does not kick hard enough to hurt like the .458 and .300 Weatherby. That's something I don't want to give up.

Yeah, I humped my Mod 70 on two trips all over Tanzania and wouldn't change a thing. I'm 69 now and I like it just the way it is with a VX III 1-5. It's a tack driver and steady as a rock.

How accurate is the rifle? If so-so, then sell it and buy a 416 Ruger.
That'll get the job done anywhere. And they only weigh 9 lbs with a scope.

Another thing I thought about doing is instead of messing with the weight of the rifle, increase the kick by re-chambering to 375 Weatherby. that'll make that 10 pounds seem juuuust right!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Sell it and build a 375 B&M that weighs 6.5 lbs with equal performance in a 20 inch barrel!

Michael

Mike,

Here's a shocker for you.



This rifle is a 20" .375H&H M-70 SS. I cut the barrel to 20" fluted it and restocked it with a MacMillian. It weighs just over 8 LBS and comes within 50 FPS of your .375 B&M.

I'm not getting the B&M and exactly what it gives you for the money and the trouble?

winchester wssm rifle - 500 bucks+500 for a barrel installation, most places.. done

sell model 70 in 375HH for about 900 ..
out of pocket, $100.

or,
$1000 model 70
send to a gunsmith to cut and flute, and recoat/blue barrel .. $400 at least
macmillian stock $350

out of pocket over the model 70? at least $750 ...

$650 more ...

and if you don't get the BM or other short length action'ed rounds, then its unlikely it will make a difference to you .. not being rude, just saying if you aren't looking for a light and short bigbore, then its unlikely to be relevent to you...

dang, that reads ruder than i meant it to me...

If you want light weight of Holland and Holland, the first class route would be to give Lex Webernick a call. He has Rifles inc, and has built lightweight rifles for all my family and a few friends. My .300 Rum is .5 MOA all day with a #2 contour lilja.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand the whole "weight thing". I personally like the heavy barreled Remingtons that come in around 9 lbs. I don't think the extra pound or two makes a hell of a lot of difference. I have a sling. And for me, the heavier rifle just holds better.

My Interarms Mark X complete with scope/sling and full magazine and a round in the chamber weighs 9 pounds and I have no problem carrying it at all, even in the Rockies in Colorado.

We offer a Floor-plate & Bow assembly for the Current Model-70 made from 7075 Aluminum for the weight challenged. These units are 40% lighter than steel. I hope to make some followers as well that will be hard anodized for further weight reduction.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
winchester wssm rifle - 500 bucks+500 for a barrel installation, most places.. done

sell model 70 in 375HH for about 900 ..
out of pocket, $100.

or,
$1000 model 70
send to a gunsmith to cut and flute, and recoat/blue barrel .. $400 at least
macmillian stock $350

out of pocket over the model 70? at least $750 ...

$650 more ...

and if you don't get the BM or other short length action'ed rounds, then its unlikely it will make a difference to you .. not being rude, just saying if you aren't looking for a light and short bigbore, then its unlikely to be relevent to you...

dang, that reads ruder than i meant it to me...

No offense taken I am simply pointing out that shortening a standard .375H&H gives you darn near identical performance to the .375B&M. No need to go wildcat if you don't specifically want to. I understand the desire to have something different.

And if you really want factory performance out of a 20" tube get a .375 Ruger or a .416 Ruger. Practicality is the angle I'm coming from. The B&M seems like a lot of trouble for no discernible gains in platform or ballistics.

Of course I feel the same way about the WSM and RCM and SAUM lines so I guess you are right I just "don't get" the whole short action craze. As far as I can tell in real world field conditions they are nothing more than a marketing tool as they don't provide any tangible advantages over the stuff we are already using and have been using for decades or over a century in some cases.

If a guy wants to go out and get a wizz banger short action more power to him I am all for it. It's just not my desire to do so.

Except for the .500 B&M THAT would be a cool little blaster to have in the toy box just because... That would be a really fun little hog popper.

All of my 375s, 404s, 416s end up at 8 to 8.5 lbs. and end up at 9 to 9.5 lbs. depending on scope and barrel length it seems..I think most companies and even some stock makers tend to leave way too much wood on a stock, and some of the ideas on absorbing recoil can be over done such as thickness in the butt. thickness in the forend and in general too much wood...slim, trim, lean and mean is my idea of a rifle, but I don't really mind a long barrel and a bit heavey out front rifle as long as its lean...I like the English style stocks, they got it right IMO, and learned what was needed by the very folks that used them the most.

I can't understand people!!!! It's like hunters put on blinders and ear plugs when it comes to rifle weight OR hikers in pack weight. And this same "question/answer" futzing around continues unabated and constant.

We're talking about a SMALL DIFFERENCE in weight of a few ounces to maybe a pound and a half. If you can't handle that difference in weight, you need to do a bit more exersizing or leave off that last two cups of coffee...that equals 1 lb or more...at least the cups that I drink...or better yet, LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. Putting a jacket in your day pack, a few extra candy bars, or an extra bottle of Avion water, will change the total walking weight by a couple of pounds and NO ONE EVER thinks about that.

I've seen hikers get just totally extreme in reducing pack weight THEN load up ther pockets with candy, and strap on 20 lbs of water while they are hiking right next to a stream or river. It gets totally mindless sometimes.

Chopping a 375H&H to 18-20" basically turns it into 26" 375-06 IMP. You need to rechamber to a 375 RUM or Weatherby to recover the lost velocity/energy, which increases the recoil to a level most hunters can't handle in the first place....the rifles sure look cool...but Jezzz...wake up and smell the roses.

I cut my 375H&H down from 26" to 20" and have been kicking by self ever since. I ran the resulting difference in ACTUAL velocity reduction through QL and compared it to other 375 cal cartridges and the only way to recover the lost velocity is to rechamber it to 375 RUM or do a slightly shortened 375 Rigby.

Or maybe just pull the barrel, cut the chamber off and rechamber to 375 JDJ, then stub barrel it to an H&R receiver at 16.5", then do a 26" 375 Ruger barrel to get back up to decent energy levels.

I had plans to bob my 416 Taylor also, but quickly changed my mind.

I've come to the conclusion it's not a whit about the weight...it's all about talking and strutting your favorite toys. It's cool to brag how light your rifle is and how BIG the cartridge is in that testosterone laced world of the "MACHO MAN".

I'm OLD, TIRE, WORN OUT, BROKE DOWN, BAD KNEES, BACK AND MIND, but have only a little trouble carting around my #13 lb 50-90 Sharps or similar weight varminters in the mountains of Oregon...I can't quite figure out what the problem is with men half my age whinning about a pound or two extra weight in THEIR rifles.

Luck

Perhaps just the American mania with velocity and lightweight rifles at work here.

Its really not an issue of carrying the extra weight being too much, its more about balance, handling, and how the gun feels in my hands. I don't want a ultralight rifle, as that would decrease steadiness in offhand shooting as pointed out by Ray.
With My rifle the balance is good enough without a scope, but the shifts back too far with the scope mounted and it doesn't point as nicely. So loosing weight in the stock would probably help. I don't mind a heavy overall weight or some heaviness in the barrel.

Here is the Musgrave .270 I used in RSA last August, the supressor certainly made it long and barrel heavy, which may have helped balance out the 6.5-18X scope. Neither the lenght nor the weight was an issue however as it actually pointed quite well and was easy to shoot well with.





This is my Winchester .375 H&H, it is 10 lbs without a scope but handles well so I love it. But when I put on the scope it feels heavy, not in the sense that it is heavy to carry on my shoulder or in my hands, but in the sense that the handling feels sluggish. Yes it is probably good enough as is, but if I was satisfied with good enough this would be a very boring hobby. (the group is just my initial sight in of the irons with some factory ammo when I first bought the rifle)



I have definately decided to make some alterations to improve overall handling, and will see where I end up. As for the questions as to why we are constatly debating these issues, I would suggest that it is because it is the best way for young hunters like myself to get up to speed on all of the various theories and ideas and to discover what works best for our needs. I agree that in many cases we are splitting hairs, the big issues can be learned from reading books but the details (the splitting hairs)are better learned through conversation and debate. This board has some very knowledgable contributors, and I feel that a hairs worth of knowledge from each of them will add up to a better understanding of the details of our chosen sport. I would rather learn from their mistakes than have to make my own.

quote:

I cut my 375H&H down from 26" to 20" and have been kicking by self ever since. I ran the resulting difference in ACTUAL velocity reduction through QL and compared it to other 375 cal cartridges and the only way to recover the lost velocity is to rechamber it to 375 RUM or do a slightly shortened 375 Rigby.

I am chronoing 270 gr TSX through my 20" barreled .375H&H @ an average 2700 FPS. Max book load with a 24" barrel showing 2820. I am getting 300 gr loads of the same make just @ 2450.

So while I lost some velocity the actual velocity loss is not significant when we are talking actual real world performance on game in the field. And I'll bet you it doesn't match what QL tells you it should have.

That being said if were to do this again I'd leave it at 22" which is a very good compromise. I HATE 26" barrels on a heavy bolt gun, it makes them feel clumsy and unwieldy IMO.

Well I made my final decision, so I thought I'd just wrap up this thread. I decided that the most reasonable way to get what I want was to buy a different .375. A Whitworth mauser customized by David Yale of Colorado is now in the mail. It has quarter rib rear and barrel band front sights, a 3 position safety, and has been restocked. It comes in at 9 lbs 3 oz with a Leupold 1.5-5 mounted. Plus it is more in the classic british style than the Winchester is, which is what I prefer. In the end I got what I wanted and spent far less than if I were to customize the Winchester.