quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
.... To test will tell the truth, to guess is a mistake.

Can I steal this for a sig line?

sure you can...

group size is not the 458s problem, hold over is a bitch in the field..I suggest holding the 458 at a 45 degree angle, close both eyes and pray...I think I know a few hunters that do that on a regular basis!

Just use a scope with a ballistic reticle. These work.

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:

That one has worse tunnel vision than my Monarch 4-16

Monarch3 4-16x42mm mildot on my 338WM calibrated for 265gr AB LR at 2600 fps mv. Groups as shown at 300 and 626 yards. It too works.

I consider range finders, range finding scopes and much of todays tech stuff cheating the animal..its no different than hunting behind a small ranch with a high fence!! At some point due to age or health issues it may be that or nothing and that's fine IMO...Just my opinion and no need to agree with it, as I only apply it to myself, and not afraid to expound on it..
:2
0: etc. etc.....

Well, Ray, I will agree with you, mainly because your position has a place in my new hunting ethic - that maybe we should draw the line at use of electrical stuff when recreationally hunting animals.

Some electrical aids may be no big deal, but making assessments on each and every one of them separately would be a can of worms that could never be sustained as a rule of thumb for fair chase.

I still use a GPS and radio for safety purposes but will not mark wallows with the GPS and hope not to use the radio to tell my buddy a deer is heading his way.

That's a pretty cool ballistic system you have. Does that only work for Nikon? I wonder if leupold has a ballistic app like that. Do you find that going with a light for caliber bullet makes it shoot flatter? Also in theory a heavier bullet would not be pushed around by the wind as much, is this correct?

Nikon done good with their ballistic reticles and Spot On app. Easy to run app to compare whatever caliber/bc's/bullet weight/muzzle speed/ambient temperature/elevation/crosswind combo's.

http://spoton.nikonsportoptics...poton/spoton.html#:4

Ray. You bring up a valid concern over how far to use electrical aids etc. As I ve posted before I ve shot competitively long range in competition to 2400 yd and further successfully for fun at targets of 12” or smaller, under ideal conditions (little wind). My friend held the 1000 yd record for many years. I ve also shot game at some longer distances, and with range finders, hand weather stations, scopes etc this is not difficult and repeatable. But I got bored with it nor did I think it was particularly good to push the limits in hunting. After all, you can setup a computer to do it all.

So went back to basics hunting buffalo up close with a .577 double, two this year, and that was much more satisfying and exciting. One dhaka boy of the three came running towards us, having mistaken the direction of the shot on another, probably because of the echo off a bank. He looked at the PH and me from 10 yd when he saw us, not like “you owe me money” but what are you doing trying to do putting brass sausages into your stick? That was fun, ...just read Judges post about getting into the middle of a fight between lions and buffalo.

Steel. Bullet weight does not determine ability to fight wind drift although an important factor, but the ballistic coefficient is as 4Sixteen pointed out. For LR shooting, .7 to .8 BC is not unusual on .338 and .375 bullets. It s a whole science of ballistics, weather, rifles, bullets, powders, scopes etc but very reproducible with modern programs like Applid Ballistics and Kestrel meters. Lighter bullets are faster and initially flatter but then drop quickly because they typically have worse BC. As a rule, heavier bullet for caliber will have a better BC and long range a flatter trajectory. And better penetration.

4Sixteen, I have two Leopold B&C and one Nikon scope and I agree they are very fast and easy to use out to about 600 yd. I shot a deer with the Lott .458 using the 300 TSX you advised. Thanks for advice. Very comfortable and accurate. Although setup for upto 300 yd, my one shooting lane, it was only 30 yd. very explosive but did not throw it the way a .577 or Gibbs .505 does on impala when occasionally used for PG. not sue I ll change the 1-6 old scope since it’s an all round rifle for Africa and Alaska. It’s taken many bears in Alaska with the previous hunting guide.

So your saying that a 500 grain .458 lott could be a flatter shooting bullet than a 300 grain .458 lott round.

Small groups with a big bore is folley, and akin to a mine is bigger than yours syndrome.

As Ive stated before I would prefer a 2 inch clover with a tight bedded Lott than a 1/2 inch group with a full floot bedding job on any DG rifle...I prefer for my DG guns to stay together..and if I can help them I will do so...

Steel. a 500 gr. bullet will shoot flatter as some point than the faster 300 gr. I suspect somewhere beyond 250 to 300 yards, shot fat fast bullets slow down pronto, especially in big bore rifle calibers, but in all calibers to one extent or another, not to mention when te bullet gets there the 500 will do way more damage than the 300 gr...That's the problem with shootint game with the 458 Win and getting the desired velocity by cutting back on bullet weitht and quoting great ballistic foolishness.

Not necessarily hunting dangerous game with my big bores. And long range big bore targeting shooting is fun. Get decent groups at range then you know your're accurate enough. My 458 WM groups as shown with a Leupold 2.5x.

quote:

Originally posted by steel:
So your saying that a 500 grain .458 lott could be a flatter shooting bullet than a 300 grain .458 lott round.

While this often happens beyond the range at which it is wise to shoot game, heavy bullets should eventually carry better than light ones and regain superiority in energy, too.

The obvious example would be the military's lifting bullet weights for machineguns from 150 to 180 grains last century. Though pressures also went up, the heavier bullets extended range by hundreds of yards.

I like an accurate gun no matter the caliber, a 222 or a 600 NE both tickle me to death if they shoot an inch, its not a crime and some Big bores do, believe it or not. My favorite 404 would, and "Sweet Thang" my beat up Jeffereys double would shoot 1/2 AND 3/4s at 25 and 50 yards with 4 shots as would two Searcy doubles, one that butch won nationals with..and get this I shot the eye out of a on coming buffalo, at 35 or 40 yards, and that's a good reason to own a double that shoots like a varmint rifle, only if you can find one..Because of this I dispel the old adage or minute of grapefruit, I wouldn't own that one very long..but Im an accuracy nut..If one proclaims minute of grapefruit he might as well proclaim minute of washtub as he is referring t shoulder shots I assume, and that shot is the size of a washtub! but no guarantee of a stopping shot!

First this:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Small groups with a big bore is folley, and akin to a mine is bigger than yours syndrome.

As Ive stated before I would prefer a 2 inch clover with a tight bedded Lott than a 1/2 inch group with a full floot bedding job on any DG rifle...I prefer for my DG guns to stay together..and if I can help them I will do so...

And then this:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I like an accurate gun no matter the caliber, a 222 or a 600 NE both tickle me to death if they shoot an inch, its not a crime and some Big bores do, believe it or not. ...
... and get this I shot the eye out of a on coming buffalo, at 35 or 40 yards, and that's a good reason to own a double that shoots like a varmint rifle, only if you can find one..Because of this I dispel the old adage or minute of grapefruit, I wouldn't own that one very long..but Im an accuracy nut..If one proclaims minute of grapefruit he might as well proclaim minute of washtub as he is referring t shoulder shots I assume, and that shot is the size of a washtub! but no guarantee of a stopping shot!

A bit of inconsistency in philosophy ?

Rip,
Your a one man lynch mob, I left out a question mark..I apoligise.

Given a choice I like accurate rifles and to me the minute of grapefruit is pure BS, cute but a worthless statement..

I expect my big bores with irons or scope to shoot very small groups at 50 yards off hand. Up close and dangerous I would surely prefer a shot to the eyeball or point of the nose, and if I could not do that at 50 yards then I would wait until point blank to pull the trigger..much happier at 50 yards..I agree 300 yards with a big bore is normally not in the picture, but a wounded bull escaping should be shot at until he is out of sight at least..then the fun begins!

AND THATS THE REST OF THE STORY!!!

Which Military was that, that increased it's machine ammo from 150 to 180 grains?
I missed that in my 28 years shooting machine guns with the Army's ammo, if it was the US.

I was generalising it, dpcd, because, as I recall, both the British and Americans finally employed heavier bullets for their machineguns. The British heavyweight may have been 174 grains but I believe the US went to 180. This was mainly for aircraft use, which may explain why you didn't come across it.

Ray,
Is this 4 shot 50 yard group tight enough for you?


My Simson .405 WCF regulation shots by Aaron Little after he regulated it. Looks nice too:

My Lott is accurate. You can shoot it as far as you can handle the bone jarring recoil. I believe it’s up to the individual to learn to shoot it. It is not intended as a long range caliber. 100 yards no problem and 200 easy with a scope. Not sure what dangerous game you will be hunting with it at 300 but the triple shocks should get there nicely. I zero mine at 50/100 which is what most of these type guns zero at for the most part of I remember correctly.

how long is a piece of string?

I have a wintworth 458 win mag purchased it used no idea how many rounds it had shot I cleaned the barrel used a 20 power scope to test my hand loads 450gr barnes will shoot under 1 inch at 100 yds with max load plan to shoot a brown bear with the iron sights at point blank calling varmit call like the bow hunters do. Kevin Erickson

Cleaned the barrel and tested the 300 gr to 360 y. Touching clover leaf at 100 y and at 360 2” group and one at 4”. 14” drop. Not bad for Lott with 6x scope. As I pointed out earlier I was looking for a longer range deer setup and this meets the ticket. And easy to switch to 500 g for Africa. May do a buffalo with it instead of .577 next year. Easier to carry day in and day out.

quote:

What is the maximum 1-2 MOA range of .458

Depends on the rifle and shooter. Bench or freehand. There is no real answer.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by nopride2:

quote:

What is the maximum 1-2 MOA range of .458 Lott

Depends on the rifle and shooter. Bench or freehand. There is no real answer.

Dave

I added the omitted "Lott" in the quote above.
Thus, true, no absolute answer,
but there is a relative answer:
Not as far as can be done with a .458 Winchester Magnum
loaded to the same length and pressure as the .458 Lott.

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
Not necessarily hunting dangerous game with my big bores. And long range big bore targeting shooting is fun. Get decent groups at range then you know your're accurate enough. My 458 WM groups as shown with a Leupold 2.5x.

4sixteen;

What is your load, if I may ask: (Primer, powder ((grs)), brass, COL)?

I'm currently loading the same 350gr Speer for bear. 81 grs H335 at around 2400 fps -- not accurate; 70 grs H4198 looking good at about 2500 fps. COL = 3.26" in my Ruger #1. Primer WLRM and Hornady brass.

Many years ago I shot a bear with that bullet from my Ruger 77 (tang safety), 22" at 2345 fps. Range 70 yards. Damage was awesome!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
4sixteen;

What is your load, if I may ask: (Primer, powder ((grs)), brass, COL)?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Good luck getting any specifics, from 4sixteen, if you do, it will be a first.

posted 19 September 2019 18:25 Hide Post
"You claim that decent accuracy in a Lott is only available for the first 100 rounds with a new barrel".

Yes, long range accuracy is short lived.

It could be because of the high pressures of the max loads and the wear on the bore they cause.



This is about the most hilarious thing I've ever seen in my life

Has anyone figured this out yet?

Nope. We just have pre 100 rounds data and after 100 rounds data on the Lott.
Correlation seems out of reach on the question.

The 100 round remark is nonsense.

Ok so 1-2 moa range?. So you are saying you and your gun can say hold 2 moa to make it simple. So 2” at 100 yards. Buffalo vitals say 24”. Compensate for drop you are good to 600 yards

I feel Im being baffled with bull shit, the longer this thread goes!!

A 505 is a 50 yard gun, and folley for most hunters. It just kicks too hard, slow to recover from shot to shot, and 300 yards in a 12 inch circle in a hunting situation is what Ive seen in the field for the most part...and a few good shots can shoot a 6 inch circle with a rest on a rock or tree at 300...Of course we have to allow for the animals zig and zag and running into the bullet, and those freaky great shots we all make now and then, when we shouldn't even be shooting , especially at DG..

You need to read the sarcasm in my post