I got to thinking (dangerous I know), I have a Mod 70 Safari express in .375 H&H, which as you probably know, only holds three down. Rather than spend $1200+ on new bottom metal and a new stock it SEEMS I could use the below set up for only $200. The detachable mag allows for a COAL of 3.615" and the .375s COAL is 3.600" and I can get the mag in .300 WM which uses the same case head size, belt and all.

Now of course I would never use such an arrangement on dangerous game or probably even plain game, this would just to have something different.

So, is it possible/will it work (with tweaking if need be)? Dumb idea or dumbest idea? Thanks.

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com...e_300wm_5_round_3715

Most firearms used in hunting the most dangerous game have detachable mags.

Our military and police use them all the time if done properly I see no problem with it.

Intriguing.
The fact that it is a straight-line, vertical stack, with feed lips will make for more reliable feed.
That mitigates against any "lost my magazine" factors.
And you can even get 10-round as well as 5-round spare magazines.
Minor elaboration: It is also offered for 3.715" COaL and 5-shot .338 Lapua Magnum.

MDT Metal Magazine - .338LM 5 Round

"Our metal magazines are manufactured from high strength steel, and finished with Cerakote for ultimate durability. The magazines are offered in .300WM and .338LM calibers. .300WM. - This magazine can also be used for 7mm, 30.06 and 6.5x55 calibers. Feedlips may need to be adjusted. For use with a 3.715 magazine well."





That makes it even better.
And now I have to think about which of my Winchesters would be most pleasing with one of those rigs.
Ugly is not a factor.
Thanks for the headsup.

Accuracy International mags as well:





"MORE INFO

The Stealth Style Detachable Magazine Bottom Metal from PTG is the perfect upgrade to your tactical rifle. By adapting your bolt action rifle to accept Accuracy International AICS magazines, you can quickly change the variety of ammunition in your gun for different target types. These trigger guards are CNC machined from aircraft-grade aluminum and feature a durable black anodized finish. This fits Winchester LA or FN Police Special LA. This is designed as a drop-in for most BDL- style trigger guard inlets. However, due to variations in stock manufacturing, some minor inletting (can be done with sandpaper in most cases) may be required. This Detach Mag Bottom Metal accepts .300WM or .338 3.715 Mag Boxes. Note nose profile in second picture.

Available with a .300WM / .338 3.715" magazine or without a magazine. See options above.

All Winchester bottom metal is ONLY compatible with post-64 Winchester manufacture date

Make sure of the proper application as all sales on PTG Bottom Metal are final, absolutely no returns. If you need inletting, we do offer that service for an additional charge."

Riflecrank Internationale Permanente

I think that too many people make a big deal about removable mags. As long as they feed correctly it doesn't matter to me.

I think its a great idea. If they can take the recoil of the 338 Lapua, the ought to be able to take the 375.
May not be quite as handy for packin your rifle in your hand , but you can prolly figure out some way that works well.
I've never had a problem packin a 788 Remington, 527 CZ, or SMLE 303 BRITISH.

Darn it, You guys where supposed to tell me its a horrible idea and it will never work.

I am going to order it and see how it works, I have tentative conformation it will work with control feed Winchesters and if not I am sure I can recoop at least some of the cost on ebay (no returns accepted from PTG.)

I saw that a while back and was pretty impressed.

Do something like a 458 win/lott with this set-up and you've got a pretty awesome stopper package IMO.

Will be watching this thread like a pervert behind the bushes...

Now someone here just has to buy on in 458 lott run a few hundreds through it.

Then write up a full evaluation with charts and graphs from shot one to the last one.

Then we can make comments on it.

Well I won't tell you it's a horrible idea. Since the KISS principle is my primary guru in the bush it would not be a choice for me. Also ease of hand carry in the field is high on my list of must have, detachable mag would not work within those parameters. If brush, your pack, or anything else releases that clip in the bush....you best be carrying some extra mags.

If the cost is getting your goat, you can buy the Sunny Hill bottom metal for around 450.00 and have a good gunsmith, or do it your self, add piece of walnut or laminate to fill the approximate 1/4 gap on the bottom of the stock around the mag box. Then you can hunt with it and beautify it with a McMillan stock or nice Walnut stock in the future. I personally am having two of my M70's done like this at this very moment, a 375 H&H and a 458 Win mag.

So an AI .338 lapua mag won't work with a .500 A2 without some dremeling. Give me enough time and I just may get around to trying .458 WM or Lott (unless someone wants to send me a free rifle or failing that, some ammo. haha)

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/6191092681

Also, despite them having dozens of sets of bottom metal and dozens of the mags I selected in stock, my order is backordered.

Well it will look like shit but as RIP said.

"The fact that it is a straight-line, vertical stack, with feed lips will make for more reliable feed."

With the inherently more reliable single stack feed and more capacity, I think it offsets any theoretical flaws.

I would just carry it with the front of the mag resting on the crook of my elbow like my tacticool rifles.

The mag release appears to operate like an AK's, which seems to be doing fine in the mag retention department.

Throw a bird cage flash suppressor and a bayonet lug on that biscuit and even Mr. Ray Atkinson will want one!

I did something like that for a long range rifle in .300 H&H using an FN mauser action. Inletting is critical for the magazine to feed properly. That's why I sent mine to McMillan to stock. It uses standard Accuracy International .300 Win Mag magazines. They are made for H&H length cartridges.

But for a rifle you will be carrying around and stalking big game with I think the fixed staggered magazine is the best way to go.

This is with a 5-round AICS magazine. A ten rounder is WAY too long in my opinion.

a very good idea up to the time you loose the magazine ....

I bought a Remington 788 in 1975 and thought that I'd better order a spare magazine since I could lose it so easily. The gun has well over 10,000 rounds through it and has been hunted in 7 or 8 States and I still have both magazines. In 1983 I bought my second rifle, a Savage 110CL with a detachable magazine, it's on its 5th or 6th barrel and third stock but I still have its original magazine.

I have at least 9 rifles with detachable magazines and I've never lost a magazine.

Frank,

maybe just me but i had a few hunters that lost theirs ...

I think the detachable mag argument is just like the push feed VS CRF...THEY both have flaws...these are mechanical devices and NEVER will be 100%. It's basic human prejudice and bias towards what YOU like that drives those arguments.

I've had Ruger's and Rem's pop there bottoms and dump the rounds...I've had clips fall out of several brands...I've had blind mags get hung up stuffing rounds in them, and single/double barrel rifles/shotguns not open quite enough to reload. I would rather have a loaded detachable mag handy than fumble with loose rounds stuffing blind or pop-open bottom metal.

I do agree with Frank and RIP...and cheap Savage Axis center feed mags are amazing at holding the rounds and feeding, but you definitely need to replace that plastic clip holding piece with alum or steel.


MOST of the porky's could be traced to a simple fix/solutions and practice, practice, practice.

Remember Murphy's law...What CAN happen...WILL happen.

You have to find the problems in ANY feed system no matter what it is BEFORE it IS a problem and be sure it WON'T become a problem at inopportune times.

Simple to say...much more difficult to achieve.

Luck

Ive never seen one detachable magazine rifle in a Safari camp for Dangerous Game in my 40 years of going to and sending folks to Africa..I don't see how that could be a fluke, and Ive never met a PH that recommended a detachable magazine..

It's a horrible idea and will never work...

Perhaps Stradling will chime in, I believe he had a rifle put together for an Australian Buff cull hunt that used detachable mags.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Perhaps Stradling will chime in, I believe he had a rifle put together for an Australian Buff cull hunt that used detachable mags.

More buffalo shot in Australia with detachable magazine than all the other rifles combined....years ago of course, the SMLE 303.

As a side note and years ago I count the number of pigs, Roos and emus I shot while bouncing around in the back of either a WWII Jeep or the first Suzuki 4 WDs. This is rough shooting and a lot of hanging on for dear life

I have used about everything up to and including 460 Wby.

The standout.....the SMLE in either 303 or 303/25. 30/30s were shit as too hard to reload while bouncing about.

I did it with a .458 Lott to
make a 10 shot culling gun; so yes it can be done.

There's more than a bit of tweaking involved. First off you have to inlet the bottom metal in. That's not easily reversable. You also need to nip
out a bit of metal front and back on the mag box cut-out on the action. Then you modify the mags, because the .300 mags have shoulder locating ribs. Depending on your blacksmithing skills it might be easier to cut one of them out.Next the mags springs need a cheater spring to help the hold
the nose up.
Hang in there, you're getting close. Next, the single stack mags aren't exactly a match made in heaven for feeding on a CRF action so there's more than a little tweaking and bending to get those two singing out of the same book, and it'll never have the smooth feel the rifle
has now.

So, yeah you can do it. No it's not a simple reversable process with no downside. I wish I hadn't done
mine.

Sako TRG-s rifles can use the TRG-42 magazine by merely inletting the mag for the S-rifle's release.

Pretty sure the S was factory chambered for .458win and .375 H&H. Know for a fact it was chambered for .338 Lapua, .30-378wby, and .338/378wby. S mags hold four rounds, three in super-mag ctgs. The TRG 42 mags hold 7 in std mag and 5 in the Rigby based magnums. More spendy than the AI mags, but if you own the S rifle, no floorplate to replace. the S mags fit flush with the stock.

Times are a-changin'...We've gone from double rifles only to bolt guns to semi-auto, CFR's to push feeds, now det-mags...they ALL have their little or big problems and are NOT 100%...arguments and personal bias aside...you ALWAYS have a choice as to which feed you prefer, and it's YOUR responsibility to see that it works to YOUR level of hide protection.

Looks like the dust-ups over push-feed vs CRF has now added in the det-mag.

I very much like my SMLE's in 308, 303 AND 458 American...The 458 Am has 6 down, the 303 and 308 10, feeds ALMOST 100%...more like 96-97% depending on the nose profile and type of metal,...at least as well as my 1903A3 and M98's and is a hell of a lot easier to reload than any of my floor plate/blind mag cannons...and I can even drop a round in on an empty mag and it not hang up.


Dogleg...How did you do the 458 Lott...I used a 458 WM reamer for my Ishapore SMLE and the mag would only handle a COAL max of ~3.07"??? While you could chamber for the Lott and load to that 3.07" max COAL, the ACTUAL usable case volume is the same as the 458 WM. I load to ~45KPSI and use 458 WM cases trimmed to whatever length best fits whatever bullet I want to use and have the crimp in the bullets crimp groove...that varies from 2.30" to 2.50". Thanks for your information.


Absence of det-mags doesn't mean det-mags are absent...on safari's...just that the de-mag facts aren't necessarily spread all over the net...I'm guessing that there are a bunch of folks that do safari's that don't spend a lot of time on the net OR on AR.

Of course...I would dearly love to have one of those 100% custom shooters...just too cheap and no need now.

Luck

A sporting rifle and a culling gun are two seperater issues IMO, one does not apply to the other..

I have never seen the need for a 10 round magazine while hunting for dangerous game, before you can fire 10 rounds you will have been a tasty morsel or a pile of ugly stuff.

I can't imagine what justifies such a rifle, in a hunting situation..they are ugly, bulky, prone to jams, clips can fall out leaving you with your thumb up yur arse..

Sometime when you have a lot of time on your hands, ask me how I really feel about it..

Not to prolong this agony or totally disagree with anyone...BUT... a few years past I read an article somewhere that was written in a humorous way that had me in stiches viewing it in my imagination...concerning an African buff and his PH that had a merry dust-up in and around the bush with a recalcitrant critter that refused to go quietly into that last good night...trying to load up and not get hooked or stepped on or trip in the process.

Something like 11-12 rounds were used in a 375 and a MUCH larger cal with the first round being off just a small amount and the rest hitting points that should have put the little beasty down but didn't.

That story came to mind immediately at the first post, and reminded me that MURPHY is always hanging around waiting to slip it to you.

I'm betting BOTH of those hunters WISHED they had more that 4-5 rounds available at the beginning BEFORE that roundy-round began in earnest.

Your experiences and thoughts may differ but they are all right by me.

Luck

Ahhh---sorry about the tirade...I deleted that part of it...I have pieces and parts to complete 4 rifles...it snowed again...I can't get into my garage OR my reloading shed to do any work...cabin fever is crawling all over me and I need SUNSHINE and sageratz to kill.

Luck

Snow does that to people but usually only after the melt!! that's called mud!!

Don't need a clip for 5 rounds in most calibers. My 416 and 404 had drop magazines, one had an extended magazine that held 6 down and one up the snout for 7 rounds, but not a detachable clip. The detachable is the culprit IMO...that said I have never had to shoot a Buffalo more than twice and I have shot many of them..I shot one once, the PH shot him once and we lost him unfortunately. The Lions found him, then Saeed found him..both shots were killing shots..Like you said Murphy and bad tracking was the culprit, but he did travel about 5 miles with a 458 Lott solid and a 470 solid in his good parts..Unusual..

Oh, yeah...the MUD...I've been watching my portable shooting bench sinking a little each day over the past couple weeks since the warming up...moved it from 125 yds to 75 yds last year and off it's concrete pad...shouldn't have done that...started to walk out to see just how deep it was and went in ankle deep as soon as I stepped off the hard driveway.

I added a screw on somewhat staggered mag to my Ruger M77 tang 50 Cal Rigby to add one more round, so 3 down, one up now. Doesn't look too bad but it's just not esthetically pleasing to me so just after finishing the rifle I started drawing up some single stack center feed ideas based on my Sav 338 Lapua 6 rnd mag but still screwed on.

These 50 cal loaded rounds weight in at 925 gr each so getting the spring pressure to lift 5 and not squirt them all out at once will be fun. The Lapua mag seems to work OK but it's ~1/2" too long for the Ruger because of the front action screw...~3.35" is just off sardine time.

Think a single stack, center feed, 5-6 round, hangy down thingy mag might be a bit much. ...even for MY strangeness.

Luck

Mag and bottom metal are in hand. it feeds wonderfully...but it only holds one down because of the magazine ribs. Time to pull out the mill bastard files, I think if I bend out the feed lips it should be an easy job to get the ribs filed off. I will try to get to it tomorrow.

Again, this is just an experiment I wanted to try, not intended for serious use. Sure there are easy ways to get 5 down, but they are not cheap. besides, who DOESN'T want a tacticool DGR?

ETA: Mag conversion finished, file was way too slow, I ended up drilling out the rib then hitting it with a burr in an air grinder, the mags hold 6 down and feeds (sluggish, all be it, needs a helper spring or a swap.) Now the project stalls because I am not grinding up my nice Safari express stock for the bottom metal.

It might be cheaper to get 5 down by buying a CZ550. Plus you'll have another rifle.

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-5...5-hh-5-rd-fixed-mag/

So there we were circa 1980 and Styer had their model S in 375H&H with wood or green plastic stock option. 5 shot detachable rotary magazine one mounted in the stock as spare and one in the mag well. That rifle fed slick as snot and it shot plenty straight as did all the Styers over time. The reason they were not popular had nothing to do whether they shot or their mags were bad, the reason was because they were very very expensive for their time !

Amen, ALF.

Wonder if the CZ could be made with a pregnant stock, different bottom metal...OR...???...and add a couple more rounds???

LUCK

My M4/M16 in Afghanistan had a magazine, so maybe it will work on a dangerous game rifle.

Just saying.

There was a guy named Kalishnakov, I think his rifle worked with a magazine as well. Maybe even on dangerous game.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
My M4/M16 in Afghanistan had a magazine, so maybe it will work on a dangerous game rifle.

Just saying.

Only if it holds 30 rounds and fires as fast as you can pull the trigger.

If he cut the barrel of his rifle to 16" and shortened the stock his .375 H&H might be as handy as an M16. Short of that, the rifle is heavy and not as easy for magazine changes as an M16. Also, the conversion necessitates the use of big, long, heavy magazines, again not very fast and handy. The conversion exposes the workings of the action to the environment and makes it a receptacle for dirt and debris. But maybe a Siamese Mauser or M16 dust cover could be installed. Then there is the nagging fact that the conversation's magazine doesn't feed as reliably as the internal magazine. The conversion is great for a target or varmint rifle where firing is from a static position, often from prone (like my rifle shown above). But I wouldn't do it to any long action big game or stalking rifle.

If that is 3 down plus one in the chamber then I don't see a reason to change anything.

My blaser which hopefully arrives in next 4-6 weeks has a detachable trigger and magazine.

Damn cool.

Mike

3 down and 1 up still works. An experienced African hunter realizes his PH and usually one or two more folks have rifles for just such circumstances. Big magazines are for Iran..

For the most part I think 3-4 down and 1 up SHOULD be adequate and on hunts there are USUALLY more than one hunter....but the arguments are getting circular with the usual either or and not really addressing the concept of a third or fourth or even a fifth solution/answer...just stirring the pot a bit, looking for that OTHER answer.

We ALL know that DG is not confined just to Africa, there is ALWAYS a place for other answers, clips have been proven, there are clip fed large caliber semi-auto, lever action and bolt action rifles, there is NOT always a backup...and MORE IS BETTER IN MANY CASES. Wander around in bear country and a fully automatic 375 PLUS caliber with a 30 round clip might seem inadequate.

Not all people that go to Africa OR hunt DG report their highlights, good or bad, on this forum or what type of feed system they are using...or if shit happened and what it was.

Everyone can nitpick but that NEVER answers the basic question in this case...I believe you should have WHAT you want IF you can find it and IF you can afford it.

Want 3-4 down and 1 up bolt gun, fine, go for it, but don't BS someone that wants 30 rounds fully auto, on a tripod with laser, infra-red and starlight scope plus computer ranging...if you don't like it then let YOUR wallet do the talking, it's YOUR choice to use what YOU want, WHERE you want and WHEN you want and NOT buy into the other technology...IF I had the bread to buy one of those new computer controlled rifles I would have TWO...just in case....I guarantee.

The thing about having a large capacity mag..is the fact that you CAN...NOT the fact that what was done in olden days is the ONLY thing to do in todays world...AGAIN YOUR CHOICE to do or not, and not YOUR place to decide for someone else...would you like it if someone told you, you can't do this or that and you have to wear a pointy hat to do it???

Guess what types of rifles are being used today for hunting wild meat and poaching...pretty much whatever military rifle/ammo that can be had...all these fine distinctions over how many down and up is just for the Safari crowd and nostalgia...sadly speaking.

I want what I want, when I want it...IF I can get it.

On a lighter note, my 450 Bushmaster is fully functional now, scoped but not quite sighted in...the mud still is keeping me from shooting anything but pine cones out about 75 yds....it has 7 down and one up...fired one clip full without a hitch as fast as I could pull the trigger and DEFINITELY GOT WARM...I LIKE IT.

Luck

Ray and I have never hunted together, although I'd like to, but if we had, he'd have seen a DG rifle with detachable magazines.

My Bill Wiseman .416 Rem. has detachable magazines. Four rounds down. Similar to the old Steyrs, with buttons on each side. I really like the system. It's versatile and makes for fast reloads and changes from softs to solids and vice versa. I've never had a problem with it except when I short stroked and that could happen with a fixed magazine rifle as well.

I generally carry a magazine in the rifle with softs and an empty chamber. Top off the rifle when you leave the gharrie and you have five in the rifle. An Army Surplus double grenade pouch perfectly holds two spare magazines, one with softs, one with solids. I have a 10 round slide on my belt that I balance with softs and solids depending on the circumstances.

Let's talk about a reload after you put one, two or so in a buffalo. I can dump the depleted magazine and replace it in a couple of seconds; now I'm back to five in the rifle. How long will it take to fish 3 rounds out of the slide and put them down the magazine one at a time.

Also, I can reload with one still up the pipe should something unexpected happen.

I really like detachable magazines on a big bore. Realize I'm in the minority, but I think I have some pretty good reasons.