Serious question here guys. I'm trying to find out -- what makes a new gun WORTH paying tens of thousands of dollars for it?

I've seen pictures of those "Purdey" guns, and their catalog, and read about others here and there, but why are these guns able to command the prices they do?

I can see and understand a couple thousand for a good gun, made of good components - up to around 5 grand or so, but to me, $5,000 should be plenty of money to get a nice stock, good solid action, and well-tuned materials.

I don't want to get into a discussion on engraving - that's been done in another thread, and I really don't see a use for engraving either. I'm interested more in function than form, and maybe that's my own answer.


I'll admit some of those Purdey guns are pretty - they're downright beautiful to look at, but are they $20,000 pretty? Not to me - and heck, they may be more, their catalog didn't list any prices.

I figure with some of those companies it's probably if you have to ask you can't afford it, and that's cool - I just don't have that kind of money, but still, shouldn't there be options for us working men?

Ben, I'm with you. I'd love to have a double but it's not in my future for a very long time. If I could get one at a reasonable cost i'd add to the economy by buying bullets etc.

the chef

500grains had a nice post some time ago talking about the length of time it took to make a DR.

Check out this link:

Cost of DRs to build

Interesting post, but how does that compare to a bolt gun?

To be honest in bolt guns I wouldn't even go above $2,000 just for a working gun. Above that range you start talking about qualities that are not essential to a hunting weapon. Examples would be how fine is the polishing and blueing, how good is the wood, how many hours were spent on inletting and checkering, not to mention the metal shaping.

A lot of the top stockmakers get $2000 and up just for a stock, and worth every penny when you consider the craftsmanship put into them. But you don't "need" that for a hunting rifle. So I could justify, to myself, up to $5000 for a good looking, well built rifle just because there is no reason you can't be pretty when you're out hunting. No way I could spend that much for a trued 700 with a composite stock though.

Over that mark though I need to see something really artistic and well done, at 10K and up then you need some high quality engraving to go with it.

Kinda like a Picasso; its just a bunch of colored oil smeared on a piece of starched canvas! Only cost about $5 bucks to produce and those assholes want $15 million for it?

Seriously, its exactly the same. Name brand; well executed and relatively limited quantities produced. Then the competition for the limited numbers available each year sets the price.

for me, no HUNTING bolt gun is worth 10s of thousands.. collectors items MIGHT be, but not for me.

double rifles COULD be worth that much, to someone else. .. but then, again, not to me.

I would rather have 1 $2500 rifle and 10 $750 rifle... but the 750 rifles I would probably build myself

jeffe

Good logic for women too!

what makes it worth it - somebody willing to pay it

This analogy might make sense:

Two months ago one of our local geniuses was using a piece of steel pipe as an extension handle on a come along. He got a long arc kick back that totally shredded his ear. His wife drug him into the clinic. I offered to refer him to either a plastic surgeon or an ENT surgeon. "I ain't going into Boise."

So, forty stiches in a three layer closure and a careful pack job with damp gauze and a Co-Ban wrap to hold it in place, and he was on his way. Even though his insurance covered all but $20.00, he bitched about the bill. "It only took you two hours!" I told him, "those two hours were free, your insurance company is paying for 12 years of training and twenty years of experience."

LD

They get so much for them because they are works of art that people are willing to pay that much for. The Picasso analogy was a good one. The only thing that makes his work worth what they ask for it is the fact that someone else thinks it's worth that much.

You're thinking of a Purdey as a shotgun, the buyer's are looking at them as works of art. They don't want a "nice stock, good solid action, and well-tuned materials", they want perfection, with everything being the best that it can be made. You mentioned that you're more interested in function than form. The people that buy these guns demand both. The function part is a given, these guns are mechanically the best they can be, but they're also perfectly functioning art. Most hunters don't care about the art part, but some do.

.

I'd say up to about $10k, it comes down to the quality of the raw materials, and the amount of labor that goes into making the gun. One can spend $3k on a granite mountain action and $2k on a piece of turkish walnut, add 80 hours at $65 an hour and you're up to about $10k. That's for a plain jane bolt gun to mechanical perfection with good raw materials.

Going into the 10's of thousands is adding labor or embelishments to the metal and stock. That and certain name brands that have developed a following and command premiums due to their rarety.

As far as understanding how things could cost that much, I'd say to an extent it requires an appreciation for the talent to do the work. A master makes a task look easy, but that's because it took 30 years to gain the skills to do a 30 minute job you couldn't copy in 30 hours.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
It has been estimated that it takes approximately 700 hours to build a best quality double by one of the more known makers.

If you consider master craftsmen's fees per hour where would the price be?

Say 65 Dollars per hour just as a ball park figure for a common construction guy here where I live he would command 45,500 dollars for 700 hours of work, so in effect if it is a top gunmaker using master craftsmen you are actually getting a bargain at almost any price.

ALF - you're on the right track for doubles (shotguns & rifles)... although I'd say that 1000 hours is closer to the mark for a sidelock made by a better known maker. The BEST makers (top-5 on the planet) say they put into it how ever many hours are needed. Estimates for those guys are in the 1200-1300 range.

So, start with the hours, then keep marking the price up as high as the market will stand - and that's how they come to cost 10s of Ks of dollars.

They're kind of like buffalo hunts... as long as they keep selling out thier quota - they'll keep raising the price every year!

A base Purdey costs around 80,000 pounds. The amount of highly skilled labor alone is mindboggling. Also with a DR you are essentially getting two rifles stuck together.

Now are they worth that price, I don't know but if I can ever afford a six figure rifle I will be a very happy man and wouldn't hesitate to get one.

1200-1300 hours for a topmaker. How in the hell could it take that long to build a couple pieces of metal stuck inside a slab of wood??

1250 hours. At 40 hours a week of actual work now, not talking about bulljiving that would be like roughly 31 weeks. If someone cant operate on a piece of metal for 40 hours a week, for 31 weeks and stick it in a slab of wood and sight it in then there must be a lot of lollygagging going on and not so much work IMO.

.

In the words of Father Guido Sarducci, "Supplya and demanda".

-Steve

To me nothing makes them worth that much, sorry but they just aren't worth that to me at all. I love a fine gun, but PLEASE, just not worth it. My guns are all working tools, they are soon worn and battered and are carried alot. Pretty guns just don't fit into my lifestyle and guns that I don't use I don't tend to keep for long.

The exact same logic as sells exotic cars. Now your talking money! You get exclusivity, a rarefied new bunch of friends, decent performance, sex potentially and big time bragging rights. They sell every ENZO FERRARI they build for about $450K. Somebody always has enough money if you have a exotic enough product. Are they worth it? Maybe not to you or me, but the buyers are all lined up.-Rob

WHAT IT TAKES TO BUILD A BRITISH SIDELOCK DOUBLE RIFLE:


Make Barrels � 50 to 100 hours:

quote:

A barrel maker takes about 50 hours to make a pair of side by side barrels and 100 hours for an over and under pair. This entails making sure that the tubes are straight, the wall thickness is correct by striking it down to size, brazing the lumps together keeping them parallel and with the correct convergents. Fitting the top and bottom ribs to the barrels, then lapping them out to their proof size and making sure the chokes are to the required size, finally finish them off by giving them a first polish.

Make Action � 300 to 400 hours:

quote:

Actioning a side by side sidelock takes about 300 hours and a over and under 400hours. Because there are so many hours for an actioner to do, it is better that two or three actioners share the jobs out between them, as their job skills will be different and by working together you get a more highly skilled made gun. The jobs range from machining up the barrel lumps, fitting the extractors in the barrels, jointing the barrels, action and forend together, then fitting the locks, lever work, cocking limbs, ejector parts and safety work, making sure that the customers personal measurements are correct. File and chisel the shape on then getting it passed at the proof house in London, then making and fitting the trigger plate, finally making it all work together and getting it ready for stocking.

Make Stock � 90 to 140 hours:.

quote:

Stocking a sidelock takes about 90 hours and an over and under 140 hours. He must fit the action body correctly on to the stock blank, then fitting the trigger plate and the lock plates in. Then fitting all the internal parts allowing them to work inside the wood. The stock is then made off to the customers measurements and shape required. The forend iron is then let in to the wood and then layed on to the barrels until the forend iron is laying in the correct place. They also fit all the snap work and make off the forend. Finally clearing any wood that stops the gun from working smoothly.

Engrave (optional) � 100 to 350 hours or even more:

quote:

Engraving a London style scroll on a gun takes about 100 to150 hours, and Game scene engraved gun 350 hours minimum. He will engrave on the gun whatever you want, from a basic scroll to a deep carving or gold inlay work. But be prepared to pay for the best.

After the gun has been engraved it must be hardened to protect the engraving from getting damaged and make the action and parts hard wearing. There are two ways of doing this, colour hardening, this will leave the harden parts with a green and blue spectrum of flowing colours, this is mainly done to scroll engraved guns. Then there is brush bright hardening using a form of cynonide to give a 5 thou deep layer of hardness to which the finisher will polish and this will allow all the engraving to be seen. This type of hardening can be used on scroll and all game scene guns.

Finish � 100 to 150 hours:

quote:

The gun should be stripped by the finisher, about 25 hours, prior to engraving. He will make sure all the metal is under the wood work and seated down properly, then he will make off all the pin making sure they are slotted and straight, and polish the outside metalwork for the engraver to start work on.

After engraving, finishing a gun takes about 100 to 150 hours. This will entail refitting everything together making sure it works freely, polishing most of the internal parts to a mirror finish, taking the barrels to be blacked and polishing them after, checker and oil the stock and forend wood. Then when everything is ready, they assemble the gun and test fire.

Total hours (average): 750 hours

quote:

Originally posted by Steve:
In the words of Father Guido Sarducci, "Supplya and demanda".

-Steve

It's the Five Minute University!

What makes a new gun WORTH paying tens of thousands of dollars for it?

Desire.

quote:

Posted 14 December 2005 00:45
To be honest in bolt guns I wouldn't even go above $2,000 just for a working gun. Above that range you start talking about qualities that are not essential to a hunting weapon. Examples would be how fine is the polishing and blueing, how good is the wood, how many hours were spent on inletting and checkering, not to mention the metal shaping.

Go over to Forrest' post in gunsmithing and you will see why.
Frank

Got two real life experiences to share which hopefully will help with this query.
#1. Always wondered about the hype over pre '64 Winchester Mod 70 until I had one on my first trip to Africa [ a .375 H&H ] and shot an Eland in mopane at about 70 yds on the shoulder. These guys are tough like all African game but not only that this guy was maybe 2200 lbs on the hoof. He took off at the shot and I planted two more into him before he disappeared in about 15yds. I remember distinctly having two empty cases in the air at the same time! Before you all run off and cry BS - I was in the zone and cranking that bolt like no tomorrow [brass was probably thrown 20+ feet]. My situational awareness was as good as it gets and my peripheral vision picked up the brass spinning off to my right
The 3 shots could be covered by my hand on his shoulder when he went down about 100yds away.
Yeah a M700 may shoot more accurately but you will never convince me it can do the same job as my old Pre 64 Mod 70 and that is why they are worth more $.
#2. Bought an old double years ago with same premise. great reputation but what is all the fuss about? .465/500 x 3.25" H&H with great bores but nothing fancy - a work gun. back action sidelock extractor Dominion.
Worked hard at regulating through reloading and took it hunting for the first time.
Jumped a pair of boar pigs with it the first shots I fired at live targets. Shot the first [both running hard at about 50 yds crossing] and remember thinking about shooting the second, then brief moment of front sight picture and the second pig was down also.
Both were 90 degree crossing shots with complete shoot throughs and bullet strikes about 90 yds downrange. Occurred 24 years ago but still have the mental photo image.
"So this is why they rave about doubles" was the first thought I had. That second hog was dead as I thought about it. I was very lucky that the double fitted me as if made to order.
That is why some rifles are worth $10000'S and having seen some of the engraving work of Winston Churchill if I could afford it I would adorn my rifles with his work for the pure joy of looking upon his magic.
APB

There have been a lot of good points made about the high priced rifles. For someone who actually shoots his rifles frequently in hunting situations, and with enough experience, you end up with some additional criteria beyond just price. Take stocks. I like the ruggedness of a good composite stock like a MacMillan. But you will be darn lucky if the one size fits all requirement of industrial production is actually the optimum fit for you. Now this means you are going to go for a wooden stock and have it fitted to your physionomy (which is commonplace by the way in the shotgun shooting sports). Now, a riflesmith who actually knows how to fit a stock to your body probably doesn't work at your local sporting goods store. Also, would you really want to have a custom fitted stock made out of a laminate? So you go for the good wood and the good workmanship. Just about every aspect of building a rifle has an analgous situation. You don't spend the money for the best work unless you are using the best materials to start with. I have had the privilege to handle, shoulder and shoot a number of rifles in the 10K range. They are generally better, in every area, than the rifles in the 3.5K range. In those prices ranges I think it is relatively easy to justify the price difference by just using one and the other a few times. You can feel and identify the differences. Over the 10K price region you start to get into stuff that I can't really measure in terms of utility (although you can add 4K for a good breakdown rifle), only in terms of artistry. There was some provocative advice from 500grains some time back: sell all your 1,000 and 2,000 rifles and buy one 10K rifle. He contends you won't regret it and I think he is right (I just haven't done it yet! It's hard to sell off one's rifles.) But pack to the point: handle and shoot, especially in the DGR type of bolt action rifle, a rifle by a premium riflesmith and then ask the question.

APB, I believe you, and your post is one of the best I've read on AR since its inception.

Fundamental paper accuracy is only one aspect of rifle performance. That rifle has to feed and function above all else, or you can find yourself in a position of real trouble.

American gunwriter Wayne Van Zwoll said it best: "If it won't feed, it's junk!".....

AD

Yes excellent post. Makes me very excited to get my DR. Will definitely sell off my lower value rifles to make room. I wouldn't want to make that big beautiful DR jealous.

I've got one custom rifle now in .300 mag that cost me just over 3k when I had it built. It does have a laminate stock, but it's cut to my measurements and it feels good, and it's on a tuned and trued Remington 700 action, and it's functional for deer - and shoots and handles very well to me. I haven't seen another anything like it in South Alabama.

I'm just batting around the idea now of getting another custom bolt gun made in .416 Rigby and selling my Ruger #1 to a friend up in Maine, and I'm just looking for some feedback mostly.

Ten or fifeteen years ago if you asked me about a rifle that cost much over $1000 I would have told you I could wish, but I seriously doubt I would get much more than about $1500 invested in a rifle.

But old man time and inflation have had an impact on my gun safe. A year or so ago I actaully looked at what I really had and realised that some of my firearms had seriously appreciated, and that some would take a minimum of three to four times what I paid for them to replace. Several I must admit were built rifles and I paid I as I built so what the final costs actaully totaled didn't register.

Some observations:

The cost of good stock blnaks has skyrocketed. What I paid $100-125 back in the day now costs $500-600.

Macnining costs, two big drivers here is the actaul costs of machinery. A mill costs almost three times what it did just a few short years ago, the cutters are 2x-3x more expensive. Second is labor that has tripled also.

Raw materails, I was digging through old reciepts a few months ago, I paid $80 for a name brand match grade target barrel some years back, currently its double that.

All of the above considered does that get me into a + $10,000 rifle? Frankly, no but it will eat up at least 40-50% real quick.

I have always tried to buy the best guns I could afford, still do and I developed expensive tastes and bad habits when it wasn't so expensive to do so.

Rolling into the 10K plus rifles I can easily picture topping this mark with the above conderations factored in. Back in the 1970's and early 1980's a good double rifle could be bought for $3000-4000 ish. Now straight up that was a princely sum back then. Today the same rifles would easily top 10K and 15K is closer to the mark. And looking through old gun catalogs A H&H rifle could be bought right after WWII for under $750 NIB.

Above the mid teens dollar mark it gets into embellishments, and the time and cost of labor to accomplish dictates price. Adam Smith and the invisible hand have not passed over the gun world, and the same supply and demand principles apply to firearms.

Once you get above about 15-18K I question what value I am getting. But that leaves me without a hope or a prayer in this day and age of getting a brand name double, A Dumoulin, Westley Richards, H&H, Purdy, Searcy they all start at above what I want to spend,.

This is kinda like looking at a Stienway piano and balking at the price, yeah you can buy a Baldwin for a lot less, if you start looking at details though you will find the Stienway has no plywood, is hand made, and there is a reason most orchestras around the world use Stienway's even though they do cost 3x as much as the Baldwin.

My attitude on firearms is buy the best you can afford, over the years I have had to seriously curtail activites and scrimp and save to pull of a few purchases. My first Colt, which is a second generation SAA, cost the me $285.00 NIB, laugh now at that sum but I scrimped and saved for months to pull off that purchase.

Another big factor is today we are a liitle spoiled. If you look what your Grandfather paid for a firearm, a months salary was what it took to buy a rifle, and roll that back into the 1800's four to six months wages were common to buy a good firearm, price out the cost of a Sharps or Ballard rifle when those were built. These were over a years wages to purchase. If you factor in a years wages today, these expensive rifles really haven't changed much in real value over the years, I am not sure what the national average on wages are today but take that figure and see what it buys you.

Edit: on last thought I had on this, I would have a few few really nice firearms that are 100% guns, than a safe full of lower end stuff. I could easily get by with 4 firearms in a pinch, 1 pistol, 1 medium-big bore, 1 deer class rifle and 1 22. I will never do it, but all of these would be fairly pricey. Even the lowly 22, a Ruger bolt action 77, with a decent scope is close to a $750 package today.

It is very simple gentlemen! Anything is worth the skilled labor it takes to make it, plus a profit for the time, and materials involved, plain and simple! Double rifles absolutely must be hand made. They are a thing that cannot be made by clamping a piece of steel in a CNC and turning it loose to be made by a smart machine.

When you consider the bench time in any machine shop is a minimum of $70 us per hour. That is for a tool and die maker. A tool and die maker is a very skilled empployee, but he isn't skilled enough to build a double rifle. Here we are talking about a group of people that are few in number, that have the skill required to build a double rifle. In the fine shops where these double rifles are made, these people do not make the kind of money a simple tool & die maker makes here in the USA, but lets just look at the cost of building a double rifle at nothing more than the bench cost of a machine shop in the USA. 750 hours @ $70 per hour = $52,500US = 20 % ($10,500 US) profit for the owners of the company = $63000 + import tarriffs, and Importer's profit, and the dealer where you buy the rifle, and you are getting up there!

All this is priced on skill that is not good enough to build a Best grade S/S double rifle, whithout engraveing! It is a wonder to me, considering what it takes to make a best grade double rifle, that they are not more expensive. The reason one can buy a good BOX LOCK double rifle in the $10K, to $16K range is simply because the cost of the kind of skill needed is far less in places like Saul Germany, or little shops in Austria. However, as the old masters die off, the price will rise, and the quality will go down. One simply cannot build a S/S double rifle that is worth owning, for less than $10K for a OFF the SHELF double rifle, or for less then $16 K for a made to fit, with better wood, and finishing. It takes the same skill to build a field grade that it does to build a best grade, the difference is in TIME, and TIME is MONEY!

I look at it like this, if it isn't worth it to you, don't buy one, that doesn't mean the product is not worth the price asked for it. I will admit there is some gouging for the name engraved on the rifle, but that is the snob factor, and is not necessary to have fine double rifle that is well worth the price one must pay to own it. Purdey is, IMO, not worth the prices they bring, but that can be said of most of the top names, but take the name away, and the piece will still be expensive simply because of the time and skill involved!

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
[
500 grains. I know from reading your posts that you are very experienced. But IMO if it takes this long to do these things, then
1. You move like pond water or
2. You need to practice more
Get real they can handbuild things a lot bigger with a lot more moving parts in less time than this. IMO this is out of touch with reality.

It has to do with the fact that rich people want to keep everyday Joes from buying such things and also that because ones that have the money and want it will pay it.
It's that simple. End of story.

I'm sorry to tell you Jarrod, but you are wrong on this. Certainly there are people willing to pay the top prices for some things, simply because they have the money to throw away, but in the case of double rifles what you call hand made, is not what it takes to build a double rifle. I would say there are no more than ten people in the USA that can built a double rifle from scratch, that is anyplace near the quality of the BRITT, or German makers, and the artizens there are not abundant! We are talking about people who can make a prefectly round ball from a square box shaped piece of steel with hand files. These things cannot be made by machines, and the people who can do this are far more skilled than anyone you would consider skilled with a lath, or mill. I know you don't believe me, but all one has to do is visit one of these shops, and witness it to realize you have never before seen this type of skilled hand work. A good meat cutter is skilled with his knives, but I don't think he would be the guy you would want to opperate on your heart, or brain. A good machinest, and a double rifle maker are just about as far apart as the butcher, and brain surgeon! Both skilled, but neither is as good as the other in his field.

You may believe what ever you want,that is your right, in this case you are mistaken!

I suggest that if you ever get to South Dakota you stop into Dakota Arms and ask for the ten cent tour. They use to be happy to do that. Things might have changed since there has been a turnover of some key people. You will see some top quallity guns being built and a lot of machines used in the process. As a matter of fact I don't recall seeing any files. They make some pretty nice guns and yes they are expensive. Maybe the files are used but they have people that can make a round ball out of a square chunk of steel with a CNC machine faster than you could go out and buy a file. Different kind of craftsman, but very skilled.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
It is very simple gentlemen! Anything is worth the skilled labor it takes to make it, plus a profit for the time, and materials involved, plain and simple! Double rifles absolutely must be hand made. They are a thing that cannot be made by clamping a piece of steel in a CNC and turning it loose to be made by a smart machine.

When you consider the bench time in any machine shop is a minimum of $70 us per hour. That is for a tool and die maker. A tool and die maker is a very skilled empployee, but he isn't skilled enough to build a double rifle. Here we are talking about a group of people that are few in number, that have the skill required to build a double rifle. In the fine shops where these double rifles are made, these people do not make the kind of money a simple tool & die maker makes here in the USA, but lets just look at the cost of building a double rifle at nothing more than the bench cost of a machine shop in the USA. 750 hours @ $70 per hour = $52,500US = 20 % ($10,500 US) profit for the owners of the company = $63000 + import tarriffs, and Importer's profit, and the dealer where you buy the rifle, and you are getting up there!

All this is priced on skill that is not good enough to build a Best grade S/S double rifle, whithout engraveing! It is a wonder to me, considering what it takes to make a best grade double rifle, that they are not more expensive. The reason one can buy a good BOX LOCK double rifle in the $10K, to $16K range is simply because the cost of the kind of skill needed is far less in places like Saul Germany, or little shops in Austria. However, as the old masters die off, the price will rise, and the quality will go down. One simply cannot build a S/S double rifle that is worth owning, for less than $10K for a OFF the SHELF double rifle, or for less then $16 K for a made to fit, with better wood, and finishing. It takes the same skill to build a field grade that it does to build a best grade, the difference is in TIME, and TIME is MONEY!

I look at it like this, if it isn't worth it to you, don't buy one, that doesn't mean the product is not worth the price asked for it. I will admit there is some gouging for the name engraved on the rifle, but that is the snob factor, and is not necessary to have fine double rifle that is well worth the price one must pay to own it. Purdey is, IMO, not worth the prices they bring, but that can be said of most of the top names, but take the name away, and the piece will still be expensive simply because of the time and skill involved!

I have to disagree just a bit. That $70 per hour isn't just buying skilled labor. Its also buying medical insurance, dental insurance, and possibly a contribution to a 401k plan. Its also paying for other fixed and variable costs per unit, as well as state and federal taxes, costs incurred due to governmental intrusion, and maybe a dividend for the stockholders.

To me, the only gun worth a dam, is an extremely accurate gun.

Good looks on a gun, IMHO are like good looks on a "high maintenance" woman... worthless.

The same reasons many fools pay high dollar for diamonds. Because they can.

Believe it or not, but a lot of very, very expensive custom rifles are disfunctional catastrophies that either won't shoot well, won't feed properly, don't have properly heat-treated or rehardened actions, etc. Many high-end rifles are built as safe-queens that are made for stylin'& profilin', rather than real use. And in many cases, they are built with a multiple defects because the client didn't ask the right questions in advance, and because the riflemaker wasn't a shooter, wasn't a hunter, and didn't know about some of the problematic issue that need to be properly addressed.

Expensive rifles are a lot like expensive women: You have to get past exterior gratification in order to know their real worth.....


A high price tag just doesn't tell you enough about a rifle. Here's my rule of thumb: Never buy an expensive used rifle without knowing about how it was but together, and about its feeding characteristics and accuracy. Also, never hire anyone to build a custom, high-dollar hunting rifle without knowing if he's a rifleman and hunter himself who will shoot, test, and guarantee the function of that rifle in advance. If he's building safe-queens and won't shoot it or test in any way other than firing a test load out of it in his crawlspace back home, forget it. If that 375 H&H was built on a soft 1909 Argentine action that wasn't properly rehardened, forget it.

For me, what makes a high-end rifle truly worth the money is quality components, internal dynamics, balance, feeding, accuracy, and total reliability. That old icon, "benchrest accuracy" isn't enough, nor is "pretty" or "tradition" enough. True best-quality rifles that are honestly worth the money are built from the inside out.

Just because the rifle you're considering looks like it came out of London, circa 1935, doesn't mean anything..............

AD

High end rifles are like anything else thats absurdly priced. They are for the rich. They give them something for the money they have and most of us don't. Shooting a GMA is like driving a Bentley, he can afford it we can't!

There are a lot of guns out there that are extremely accurate, but accuracy is but one component (albeit an important one) of what makes a good rifle. I'll take a 1 MOA rifle that feeds and extracts well, is comfortable to shoot and I can depend on over accurate junk anyday. While I'm not going to say that ALL expensive rifles are worth it (because they are most definetly not!) some however are and therein lies the the trick, you have to know the difference. jorge

There is no strictly rational answer to this question. By that I mean the answer is more psychological than economic.

But I do know that a Holland & Holland Royal grade double rifle is worth every exorbitant British pound that it costs, and more.

And moreover, it will hold its value for as long as it lasts and is properly cared for and people have money to spend.