The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Tell me what you think about 350gr .458 bullets for Moose or Brown Bear 45/70 or 458WGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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The three choices that I can think of in 350 gr .458 bullets are Barnes TSX, Speer HC, and Swift AF. There may be more, but the three I mentioned supposedly are tough bullets designed for 458WM velocity. What do you think? Are these bullets too light? Should I be looking at 400gr minimum? Opinions and/or experience please. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | ||
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What platform? Range? If Encore, Ruger #1, or modern bolt gun - would opt for lighter faster bullet at higher pressure. IE - 250 @ 2600 (45-70) or 250 @ 2700 (458 WM). | |||
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Well, I didn't anticipate an answer that included a 250gr .458 bullet. OK, what 250 gr bullet do you have in mind that won't mush out to a pancake, or explode at that vel, in the first three inches of B. Bear or moose, and really piss him off? I don't want to be argumentative right off, but it seems to me that even a 250gr solid would be so lacking in SD, that adequate penetration is doubtful. Anyway, to clarify and simplify, assume a modern bolt gun for 458, and a strong single shot for the 45/70 - top vel in each in other words. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Consider the North Fork 350 grain .458 flat nose soft point. Awsome for what you want. | |||
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I'd use a Barnes TSX FN on moose or black bear or whatever you feel the need to kill pronto like. If I were hunting big Brown bears I'd use one of my own 250 or 300 grain FN solids. You can probably squeek a little more speed out of them in a WM bolt gun depending on barrel length. Keep in mind, I don't hunt, my focus is designing the most lethal projectile possible. A pass through is likely with the FN on Brown Bear. | |||
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Interesting. Here's what is written on the NF website: 350gr "Quick Overview: The primary use for this bullet is in Ruger #1 rifles chambered for 45-70. The lighter weight and subsequent higher muzzle velocities, together with the lower initial opening velocities of the bullet, makes the #1 a viable 200+ yard bear, bore, and elk gun. The bullet will withstand anything that a 458 Winchester Magnum can dish out, but the sectional density may be a little low for initiating up close and not so friendly confrontations with a half-ton of brown bear. That situation would be better served with the 458-400 grain bullet." 400gr "Quick Overview: The main use for this bullet is Alaska. It can comfortably reach 2400 to 2500fps from a 458 Winchester Magnum, depending on barrel length. That combination will smite, with finality, any and all beasts found within that state. Moose and big bear of any size will have met their match. It would also be suitable for much of Africa but, due to the sectional density, I would leave the Cape buffalos to the 458-450 grain bullet." KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Kabluewy 458/45/70???? Where's your 9.3X338s? Ok, bear and moose bullets coming up!       Never ever discount the use of a proper flat nose solid for far more work than just the heavies. In 2008 I shot a griz with my 50 B&M, 470 gr Copper HP at 2200 fps, backed those up with a 485 Flat Nose solid, both did a great job. There are several good 350-400 gr bullets that can be used with great effectiveness for what you want to do, and I would back those up with a good flat nose solid, either a SH Precision from Mac or something similar like the 330 Barnes. Either of which would make a superb moose/bear combo. Today, if I was using my 458 B&M for bear/moose it would be a brass HP NonCon, made by Mac backed up with a matching solid. I have some 300 gr Brass HPs and 425 gr Brass HPs, here is what they can do;  Can't find a photo of the 300 gr 458 brass HPs. Any of these will do a number on bear/moose. Of the 350 bullets, I like the Barnes TSX. Between 350-400 Swift, I like the 400. Would be the same for the North Forks, but either will do fine. But that is the least important decision, it's the back up bullet that needs to be considered, and never forget how much trauma a flat nose solid transmits at impact! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Would be cool to see yout 250 and 300 grainers tested by Michael 
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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My 9.3x338 is sighted in and ready to go. It was so cooperative that there's no challenge there.  Right now it's my go-to rifle for the forseeable future.I have a 458WM challenge now, and want to pick the righ bullet to save time with load dev. Looks like I asked the right question. About the pictures and test results - WOW - Awesome.  Thanks, KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Boomy I think J sent some of those TSX smokers in 45/70. He claims extreme velocity and danger, I have been trying to grow some "brass balls" to test them!  Macifej Don't have to hunt to realize what a bullet can do my friend! I would go with one of your 250-350 FN solids anytime and be perfectly content I would hammer up front, and penetrate through the other side, and whatever was left in between would be rubbish!. Pass thru Likely? Most Likely in Fact! Outcome? Dead bear! M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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KB My choice for this sort of job in 9.3  M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, What's the verdict/bottom line about the Barnes banded solids, regarding barrel wear and tear? Do the bands do the trick? Also, shooting the 350 gr Barnes TSX and the 330 gr Barnes Socom solid, would point of impact be close to the same for both bullets? What about Barnes 450 gr TSX and 450 gr Solid? Edited: I've had second thoughts about the question - same point of impact. I'm thinking that if there's a difference it will be elevation. So say I'm using H4895, I could probably adjust one or the other load a few grains until the POI was close at say 50yds. Regulate the loads, so to speak. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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KB Zero issues shooting the Barnes, no barrel problems, I have emptied many a box of Barnes Solids and have yet to have a problem with wearing a barrel out. Yes, bands are great improvement, and the nose profile is superb. But there are several more excellent FN solids to choose from too. In my 458 B&M rifles (equal capacity to 458 Win) the 350 TSX and 330 Barnes Banded same POI. I have used the 450 Banded and 450 Swift many times to same POI. I have not tried the 450 TSX in my guns, but I am quite sure there would be zero issues with POI and can be achieved pretty easy. When I was shooting 458 Win, it was standard 450 Barnes/450 Swift. Like you say, if there is an issue it can be adjusted slightly and come together at 50 yds. I want POI close at 50, if it's an inch in elevation at 50 I do not get much concerned and can easy work with that. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I am a big fan of the A-Frame...but on the species you are talking about, I think any of these offerings is going to work just fine... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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I think 350 or 400 would be perfect. I've worked extensively with the 45-70 and found those two weights to be phenominal performers. Taking the 400 only to 2200 fps and the 350 to a tad over 2300, I haven't been able to catch a bullet yet. Yes, using GS FN's. Pushing them to 2700 fps you get a nice .600 ish meplat FN that wrecks havack on the internals. Everyone knows I like the expanding FN for just that reason; massive trauma and shock. I don't want the bear to go a few seconds before expiring.  I'd say go with NF or GS 400 FN's, S&H 350's, and Barnes 330 BS FN's lastly (not a fan of the X in this app). Just my opinion. -Extremist "Pain is weakness leaving the body" -Instructor Victory in life is dying for what you were born to do. "I hope you live forever" -300 "Never judge an enemy by his words, he might turn out to be a better shot then a writer" http://www.gscustomusa.com | |||
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Curiosity question based on the above performance of the .458 330gr Banded Solid at 2331 fps – Would this be sufficient penetration to take side/frontal brain shot on elephant and broadside/frontal chest on cape buffalo? | |||
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m3taco An excellent question. One I have been asking myself since the little bullet came out. According to the test work yes it would do it. In comparisons to lot's of other solids that are proven, it's better than a lot of them, and not far behind it's bigger brothers! It's all about nose profile and meplat size. But even still, myself, it's hard to wrap your mind around that fact, especially with such a light bullet. I can tell you only what I would do and I would feel comfortable with, Buffalo, absolutely yes, side brain, yes, frontal? It is a superb bullet and design. It has the penetration! But like I said, I still have a hard time getting my mind wrapped around the facts. Even at less velocity in 45/70 it does very well. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Man! Maybe Folks like Randy Garrett and Linebaugh have been right all along! Interesting work for sure. Ironically, look at the similarities in nose profiles...    Interesting penetration information: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/Penetration.htm http://www.garrettcartridges.com/420.asp http://www.garrettcartridges.com/071701.asp http://www.garrettcartridges.com/050100.asp Last two paragraphs -Extremist "Pain is weakness leaving the body" -Instructor Victory in life is dying for what you were born to do. "I hope you live forever" -300 "Never judge an enemy by his words, he might turn out to be a better shot then a writer" http://www.gscustomusa.com | |||
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KB I inadvertently turned this around into a discussion concerning solids, sorry for that diversion. My point being that even in AK moose/bear, I like to back up first shots with a solid, considering the fact that if your animal does not drop at the shot, for whatever reason, your next shot may be in need of extreme penetration, possibly from the rear, in which that might challenge the very best of expanders! It works well for me. I think that anymore discussion on that subject should be taken to the TBP thread. And not pollute this one with it. Hope this was of some assistance to you. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Etremist458: Meplat/profiles may be similar but the velocity is still 400+ fps slower. Not sure if the extra weight of the Garrett loads makes up for the velocity delta. Maybe Michael458 would do a side be side comparison as his testing is probably some of the best privately done and un-biased info posted for public review/critique I think I have ever seen posted. My hat is off to you sir!  Didn’t intend to open the controversy surrounding a 45-70 vs. other .458 caliber rifles – the point I was intending to make was regardless of the cartridge/rifle combo sending the projectile down range, as long as it could get that projectile to that velocity would it be sufficient for DG. That said – there are hand loads published in current reloading manuals that will get that weight projectile to that velocity or higher in 45-70 (in modern lever and modern rifles), 450 Marlin, .458 WM, 458 Lott and other .458 cartages. Provided that diameter, weight and velocity generates the penetration indicated, is anyone or anything going to be able to tell what cartridge/rifle combo sent the round down range - no. | |||
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There has been a lot of controversy over the Garrett information, most of which I have not paid much attention to. Everyone has opinions. Some of the information is good, some not so good. One of the things he mentions is velocity. Less is good he says. I don't agree. In some cases yes, less gives more, but that is totally bullet dependent, for instance with cast bullets that may upset at higher velocity. Other solids, such as the barnes and North Fork profiles tend to give more penetration with more velocity. So saying one way or the other is not always correct. Also one must compare apples to apples. m3taco Concerning the 330 Barnes. If I would have had that bullet in 2002 in Zimbabwe I would have much rather had it in my Marlin Guide gun than the Cast Performance I had at the time! I am very sure it would have been far more effective. Thanks for the kind words too! I appreciate it. And you know me, I will test anything I can get my hands on gladly! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael458: I think I will be ordering up a couple of boxes of the 330 Barnes for my upcoming (third trip) trip back to Namibia this Aug. The first trip I took 45-70’s, one in a Marlin and one in a #1. It was a very short notice. I picked up a cancelation hunt (off of this site) and left two weeks later. I didn’t have time to work up any really good hand loads. Ended up taking just some 300gr hard cast at moderate velocity and some max hand load 300 gr Rem JHPs. Just PG and the JHPs worked OK but not what I would go back with again. Although the 300 JHPs at 2500fps were kind of….spectacular…on a couple of baboons and pass-throughs on Springbok. Last year I took some more of the 300 JHPs for fun and some 300gr Nosler Partitions at 2000 fps and some 405gr Rem JSPs at a calculated 1950 fps. The 405s were clearly being over driven as the jackets completely separated from the core, but the holes being left in the game you could pass a golf ball through. No pass-throughs but always found on the off side just under the skin of Gemsbok. No blood shot meat at all. The Noslers mushroomed very nicely but at the lower velocity did not pass through on Gemsbok size and up either. A couple of months ago I purchased two Charles Daly Custom Safari’s in 375 H&H and 458 WM. I also picked up a custom built Siamese Mauser in 45-70. Still playing with the 375 and 458 and don’t think I will be taking them this year and to be honest I don’t know if I’ll be keeping them but the Mauser will definitely be staying. If I can get a couple boxes of the 330 Barns and see how they group with the 45-70 and 450 Marlins, I know I can load them up to a least that 2300fps based on currently published load tables. With the stronger action of the Siamese Mauser I should be able to reach 2500fps+ before pressure signs start to show and puts this into the 458 WM envelope. Plus the Mauser has a very deep throat. I test seated some .458 WM 500gr solids seated at the seating band on the bullet and could chamber them with no problem. So…… That brings me back to my original supposition – does it matter what rifle/cartridge combination fires a .458 diameter projectile so long as the given projectile weight can reach the required velocity to achieve the required penetration with said projectile? Thanks again for all the testing you are doing and posting – read some the heat/flack you get when someone’s favorite bullet doesn’t measure up to what they expect. But keeping this on balance, there could very well be differenced in the field performance with actual tissue and bone instead of a test medium, but the test medium should also provide some indications of what to expect in the field too. | |||
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m3taco I have a couple of questions for you. Ok, going to Namibia soon When? Next what sort of animals are on the menu? You are in fact taking 45/70 or 450 Marlin? I have some ideas is why I am being so nosy about your business, sorry! Does it matter what rifle or cartridge combination fires a .458 diameter projectile as long as it can achieve required velocity for required penetration of said projectile??? Good question. Yes and No is the answer. With most expanding bullets the answer is no. Non-Conventional bullets, no I don't think so! Solids, Yes it can be an issue. With SOME solids that come up short on meplat size in 458 caliber, such as the 400 Barnes Buster, we have proven over on TBP that a faster twist rate than what is available in the Marlins and many other 45/70s being 1:18 to 1:20 then they will lose stability quicker in the slower twist than in the faster twist of 1;14 of the 458s. However, we also know that with a proper larger meplat size, such as the Barnes 330s that they can stabilize themselves most of the time regardless of the slower twist rate. Examples:   These of course are the busters tested at the same velocity levels, different twist rates from either 1:18/1:20 to 1:14. Of course 1:14 came out on top, because the meplat size of the Barnes Buster is a bit small and marginal, requiring a faster twist rate for optimum stability. Now, the Barnes 330 banded is a different story, it has the same 65% meplat of caliber that it's bigger brothers have, the 450 and 500 gr Banded solids. With 65% meplat of caliber it can more or less self stabilize at proper velocity without twist rate being optimum.  Added velocity of the 458 B&M load (which is not loaded to it's highest potential in the 458 B&M) gave added penetration, as it should. I know that is a rather lengthy answer, but I think a proper one. I hope that answers the question about the solids. Expanding bullets are not a real issue with twist rates during terminal penetration. But Non Conventional bullets like these seems they could be effected by twist rates. For sure they are velocity dependent to be both operational and stable during penetration.   Something I need to do with the little 300 gr bullet is run velocity up in a Marlin to see if I can increase the penetration and stability, I believe an increase in velocity would do so. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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As a 45-70 shooter, and having taken plains game with it, using the 300 gr. nosler partition, this thread is very interesting to me. I'm thinking of getting a Ruger no. 1, 45-70 to go along with my Marlin GG. If I get a chance to go back to Africa, on another plains game hunt, I'd like to use the number 1. Please keep the info coming on these .458s, esp. shooting them out of a .45-70. Mad Dog | |||
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Michael458: Departing on 25 Aug. Plains Game only….maybe. PH has had a problem elephant he has been trying to get a PAC permit on. IF (BIG IF) that were to happen while I am there then……..have to give it serious consideration. The PH’s property is 500K NW of WDH in rugged low mountain terrain with relatively short (<150yd) shooting distances. Planning on a 45-70 for my fiancé with the 300gr Nosler’s at 2000fps – 5’4”, 120 lbs and can shoot those all day into a 2” circle at 100yds. A 45-70 Remington DR with 405 Rem JSP’s at 1500fps just for fun. My 450 Marlin and Siamese Mauser with some Jae-Bok Young 420gr Crater Lites as hard as I can push them (if he gets them to me in time). If not will use some 420gr Cast Performance wide flat points with gas checks I have on hand - Now maybe some of those 330 banded solids in my 45-70 Siamese Mauser just as fast as I can push them before overpressure signs start to show. I know my 45-70 cases will hold 60gr+ of H4198 with a 325gr hard cast with gas checks at over 2500fps. Plan is for my girlfriend to take her first animal – she really wants a Kudu. Tried last year but rabies had really decimated the old bull Kudu in his area last year. She got on the sticks for a shot at a very nice Gemsbok but it just didn’t settle down enough for her to get a good clean shot and SHE passed. I was very proud of her for NOT taking a shot she wasn’t comfortable with. So, Kudu and Gemsbok on her list and Eland, Red Hartebeest, Gemsbok and Mountain Zebra for me and whatever else may provide opportunities. | |||
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Might you consider consulting Phil Shoemaker since he uses a 458 WM on many of his guiding forays? I would imagine he would be a dependable consultant on this matter. | |||
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I had a very bad bullet failure with Barns X bullets on a buff this yr. I wont use them again. just my opinion | |||
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Can you please elaborate since most people seem to favor X bullets on DG like buffalo? | |||
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Some. Not all. The A Frame is just as good, if not better. | |||
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We do like our A Frames don't we Jet!!!!! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Mad Dog If you have not been over on the Terminal Performance thread go over have a look, there is lot's of stuff there, and if you have specifics ask me! But we have done some 45/70 work and lot's of 458 caliber work with different bullets. So come on over and kick around with us. http://forums.accuratereloadin...541006231#9541006231 Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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m3taco PM sent! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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The quotes below (my words) were intended to differentiate between the 350 spitzer and the 400 spitzer when loaded in the 458 Win.. Just as I said then, I would still prefer the 400 SS in that case because you can still drive the 400 to respectable velocities. I would have no qualms at all with the 350FP for big bear in hot 45-70s or 450 AK or any other similar high speed lever cartridge. Load the hell out of it and go for it. The Swift 350fp is also and excellent bullet. For the same pressure, it can't be driven quite as fast but it performs very well. I have no use for and would not sell non-deforming solids for bear.
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Question: are "solids" (non-expanding)bullets legal in Alaska? They are NOT here (Ontario - Canada)for game hunting, that's why I ask. I've had good success with the 350gr TSX in both my .458WM and Ruger No.1 Imp. Michael: Regarding the "Buster", I've been very interested in it for my Marlin, but when checking with my supplier a few days ago, they didn't have any in yet. Also, nada on the 330 BB. That one interests me a lot also, if they were legal here, but they're not. I've started testing the 480gr DGX in my .458 and the Ruger for velocity: so far 2254 fps in the CZ and 2202 in the Ruger. Will test for accuracy and expansion/penetration later. It may be noteworthy that Barnes claims the "Buster" to have penetrated a 600lb hog from "stem to stern" from a .45-70 GG. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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Bob I know of no laws against solids in Alaska or the US. The Buster has a tiny hole in the top, pin hole, I suppose it gets by as a hollow point for the bureaucrats. When you test the 480 DGX post it over on the TBP thread. Would like to see what you come up with, then I will show you mine. As for the buster penetrating the pig, I don't doubt that, it could be a very good bullet getting the velocity up some. As far as myself using solids, I do. On almost every single hunt I go on since 2006 I have done so, and very successfully I add. Not on the first shot of course, I use the proper expanding or noncon for that work, follow up shots solids just like you would do for buffalo. What I have found is a lot of the time many animals just do not realize they are supposed to lay down on the spot when hit, even hit well. When that happens sometimes one is looking up the south end of a north bound critter, do you trust even the best of expanding bullets to reach the vitals of a big north bound moose, or perhaps a fleeing 9 ft brownie into the thick stuff? Not me, I will take my chances with a solid in that situation thank you. I have used this very method successfully on bear, I like penetration! Those big flat nose solids hit hard too, they are not just drilling holes. But hey, that's just the way I do it, nobody has to do what I do. What works for me might not be your cup of tea! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael; BTW, thanks for all of your input... and testing! I really mean that. Actually, the last bear I shot with a hardcast (465gr)had a flat meplat of .25". The "trophy size" bear was flattened where it stood facing in my direction, though it never knew I was 70 yds away in a treestand. It was fired from an NEF Handi Rifle .45-70 at 1900 fps. I still have a bunch of those, made for me by a friend in Saskatchewan. They are accurate and probably act like a "solid" anyway. I hit it center chest and the bullet was never found, though I searched for it. There was a hole at the bottom of the sternum where it made exit into the ground someplace, but I failed to locate it. So, I'm all for using "solids" with flat tips on N.A. game, and I expect that if I did use a legit solid on bear or moose, no one but myself would know about it anyway. But thought I would ask. I doubt that the DGX will expand on the game (moose and bear) that I intend to use it on... should I get the chance. I don't doubt it would work on those critters. It has a flat meplat of .25". I'm gonna try and get some of those 330gr BBs, as I think they'd be great in the Marlin. The 350 TSX probably didn't expand very quickly on the bear I shot last fall. I too shot it center chest at 90 yds, and the TSX made exit just in front of the right hip... I don't think it slowed very much. I've look for that one too, but so far no luck. My impression is that it's a tough bullet that would be better suited to moose, big bear or lion. I may be wrong, of course, as a sample of one through a smallish bear lengthwise isn't the best evidence. Anyway, thanks for all of your help and input. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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Bob Most welcome! Hey, that flat nose hits animals hard, and penetrates. Regardless cast or solid. Ain't nobody gonna know nothing unless you tell them! Go over to TBP and remind me later and we will test the 350 TSX at low velocity to see what happens. That will be pretty simple to do. You might be surprised, so might I?? HEH. Very welcome. Hey, I'm off the NRA Show in Charlotte NC in the morning so I will be off line until Monday! Would love to see and meet any of you guys if you happen to be there look me up! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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first shot frontal chest shoot at 50 yds. very slittly off center hit. the bullet mushroom and broke half the front portion off turned left and instead of going thought the chest into the heart went under the shoulder. when recovered the bullet was also bent as well as broke. | |||
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