HA! .510 Gibbs, New Offering of Hilltop Arms: No Rebate! No Fooling!

12 November 2005, 04:38

RIP Arms, Inc. has already been through bankruptcy before even getting started. It has been reorganized as the new business entity Hilltop Arms, Inc., also known as HA! for short.

DOA Ammo is still going strong as a subsidiary of HA!, so you may RIP in that regard.

Here is the complete lineup from HA!/DOA, but note that one of the two .375 Lapua's shown is inserted just to hold the spot of either the .308 Lapua or .475 Gibbs, that will eventually be added, for a total of 10 cartridges:

And here is a closeup (fish-eyed distortion and all) of the Gibbs based cartridges:

A closeup of the Rigby/Lapua/Mbogo cartridges so you can see the .423/380gr North Fork that killed the Bison bison below with one shot at MV 2525 fps:

It's been a year and a month and this 3 year-old bull is just now getting pins stuck in his nose and getting ready for makeup and a blowdry!

The HA!/DOA line:

A switch barrel rifle and ammo for the Serious Seven:

.308 Lapua
.338 Lapua
.375 Lapua
.416 Rigby
.423 Lapua
.458 Lapua
.470 Mbogo

And a switch barrel for the Triple Threat:

.408 CheyTac
.505 Gibbs
.510 Gibbs ... .510 Punjab ... .510 Jabba The Hut

Just two rifles and Ten loads is all you need.
HA! won't rip you off.

12 November 2005, 06:29

RIP

Just a reminder:

HA!/DOA will tolerate NO REBATE on our bolt action rifle cartridges.

The Lapua and Rigby brass from Lapua and Norma measures 0.585" at head and rim. This is supposed to be 0.590" max by most specs I have seen. This must be a minimum tolerance to make it function even in the occasional tight chamber or bolt face with some mud along for the ride.

.505 Gibbs is supposed to be 0.640" at head and rim. The Jamison .505 Gibbs brass mikes very close to 0.635" at head and rim, and if anything the rim is slightly larger, not smaller. NO REBATE. Negative rebate by a thou or two is the way it ought to be.

For those who miss the manufacturer's rebate, HA! will be giving away a backyard grill gift certificate from WalMart with each switch barrel purchase. After you kill it, you can grill it.

12 November 2005, 08:57

500grains

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Just a reminder:

HA!/DOA will tolerate NO REBATE on our bolt action rifle cartridges.

Here! Here!

12 November 2005, 09:31

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:

Here! Here!

500grains,
Good of you to drop by between elephant shoots, and very kind of you to second the idea. Glad you agree.

If that is the only reaction I can get on this thread, I might as well run with it ...

Only the wantonly reckless

use rebated cartridges in their bolt action rifles if they have any other choice.

12 November 2005, 10:35

boom stick

are you serious that all seven will feed on one switch barrel?

you would only need the 338,416 and 470 though

12 November 2005, 11:48

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
are you serious that all seven will feed on one switch barrel?

you would only need the 338,416 and 470 though

BS,
Firstly,
I regret to inform you that you have been cut out of ownership of 1% of the now defunct RIP Arms, Inc., due to the deal with the bankruptcy and new stockholders. So sue me.

Secondly,
Yessirree, all Serious Seven from one switch-barrel rifle, BUT, the .470 Mbogo being the most difficult of the lot would require a separate bottom metal with vertical stack and integral feed lips that are similar to a Weatherby box. This can be had as a five-down banana box. But the .470 Mbogo will cost you extra.

All the others (Rigby and Lapuas) have the Rigby taper and feed well in the same box, follower, ramp and rails.

Hence, on second thought, this would be a ripoff to customers so we will have to eliminate the .470 Mbogo from the line, and replace it with the .475 Gibbs. Finally you will be able to get .470 NE ballistics (5000 ft-lbs) at way lower pressure than the .470 NE, or you can get that mythical 10,000 ft-lbs with full house loads that the .475 A&M only dreamed of.

Here we go:

SERIOUS SIX
.308 Lapua
.338 Lapua
.375 Lapua
.416 Rigby
.423 Lapua
.458 Lapua
(can't go any bigger with the slick taper of the Lapua/Rigby)

Fearsome Foursome
.408 CheyTac
.475 Gibbs
.505 Gibbs
.510 Gibs

The Terrific TEN is complete.

[Note to Bad Forrest: We cannot go any bigger than .510 caliber even on the .505 Gibbs, given the need for maintaining the slick body taper for the HA!/DOA switch-barrel system.]

But you really ought to have at least two complete rifles on a serious hunt, for backup, so you might as well go fair-to-middlin with one (.458 to .308 on the Lapua/Rigby case head) and "go large" on the other (.408 to .510) on the Gibbs case head.

Note that the calibers of both the Serious Six and Fearsome Foursome both include good tactical applications and big game hunting perfection, from deer to dinosaur.

Note to all:

The HA! switch-barrel system follows the Keep It Simply Smart (KISS) philosophy. It consists of a barrel vise, action wrench, index marks and a cheater-bar/torque wrench.

Engineering Ingenuity Exemplified yankees

12 November 2005, 12:01

lawndart

Hey Bro',
I have an M-203 grenade launcher action in 40mm laying around that I'm not going to get around to having built up for a long time (something about money). You are welcome to mount it under your switch barrel if you want. It would probably work great if you called the coyotes in too closely for effective rifle work.

LD

I do like the looks of some of those cartridges!

12 November 2005, 12:10

boom stick

i will have to take you to court on the 1% with a jury of a.r. peers...

i will take the two rifles and 5 switchbarrels for mental anguish

i do wish you well and hope you become the next lazzeroni

i would like to be kept on as a marketing and development consultant

start making the rifles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

12 November 2005, 12:14

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by lawndart:
Hey Bro',
I have an M-203 grenade launcher action in 40mm laying around that I'm not going to get around to having built up for a long time (something about money). You are welcome to mount it under your switch barrel if you want. It would probably work great if you called the coyotes in too closely for effective rifle work.

LD

I do like the looks of some of those cartridges!

Brother Dart,
Fantastic idea! We will need to get a supplier for mass quantities of cut-rate M-203 grenade launchers (WalMart?) and add a properly configured tactical stock for use with them.

Now, where will DOA Ammo get the grenades? Gotta keep 'em happy, whatever the coyote hunting market demands.

12 November 2005, 12:26

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
i will have to take you to court on the 1% with a jury of a.r. peers...

i will take the two rifles and 5 switchbarrels for mental anguish

i do wish you well and hope you become the next lazzeroni

i would like to be kept on as a marketing and development consultant

start making the rifles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fair enough.

HA! has working protoypes in .338,.375, .416, .458, .470 (Alas!) and .505, and the .423 is under construction.

The .308, .408, .475, and .510 will soon follow.

When HA!/DOA gets all the loads tested, we'll release the whole line at once to the clamoring world.

12 November 2005, 12:29

RIP

ONLY THE WANTONLY RECKLESS USE REBATED CARTRIDGES IN ANY RIFLE!!!

12 November 2005, 12:36

boom stick

when is the projected shipment?

12 November 2005, 13:00

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
when is the projected shipment?

boomer,
I'll have to get back to you on that one. Hopefully before the Spartan .45-70 doubles hit the shelf, and soon after the MRC PH actions are available (assuming our engineers can economically blueprint, smooth, and heat treat the soft spots). Currently actions will be CZ 550 Magnum, Dakota 76 African, and Granite Mountain. I would prefer a stainless true Mauser Magnum, but sometimes you gotta settle for what you can get. The devil is in the details!

12 November 2005, 13:01

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
ONLY THE WANTONLY RECKLESS USE REBATED CARTRIDGES IN ANY RIFLE!!!

12 November 2005, 13:20

boom stick

just be sure to get me those rifles and barrels before i go to africa on my 40th

but the sooner you get em done the more i can practice

12 November 2005, 13:35

boom stick

so all the serious six will have the same length where the bullet meets the lands? (your "getting the bullet out of the case" thing)???

12 November 2005, 14:14

Bent Fossdal

Happy are those who have dreams, and are willing to pay the price to see them come through!!

Impressive, and I am sure a lot of fun!!

But, I am curious....What scenario do you picture in your mind, when a .475 Gibbs feels to small, and it is time to call on the boys to bring the .510 barrel?

12 November 2005, 20:21

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
Happy are those who have dreams, and are willing to pay the price to see them come through!!

Impressive, and I am sure a lot of fun!!

But, I am curious....What scenario do you picture in your mind, when a .475 Gibbs feels to small, and it is time to call on the boys to bring the .510 barrel?

Bent,
When to go to a bigger bore is an individual decision sort of thing, but anytime you can smell rotting meat on their breath (or peanuts) is a good time, as bigger is always better at such times.

However, HA!/DOA does not recommend a fast barrel switch in mid charge.

One of either the .475, .505, or .510 Gibbs will do, and make the switch barrel for it a .408 to serve your SpecOps/Tactical needs around the home.

Remember that the HA! Company's main product is information, but we are working on getting products out of cyberspace and into reality.

HA! motto: No Rebate!

12 November 2005, 20:25

500grains

May I inquire about this pic?

There appears to be a hairless variant of the whitetail deer species represented in the background. Is that variant found in hotter climates where hair is not needed for survival?

12 November 2005, 20:36

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
so all the serious six will have the same length where the bullet meets the lands? (your "getting the bullet out of the case" thing)???

boom stick,
The Throating for each individual calliber will be approximate caliber length of parallel sided freebore, and a 1.5 degree leade. Freebore diameter will be only .0005" greatrer than bullet diameter for the .375 and smaller, and .0010" for .408 and up.

This allows all the long seating you might want, and fine accuracy.

For example, the .375 Lapua has .3700" parallel-sided-freebore length.

.423 Lapua: .4200"

Etc.

For the stodgy, stick with the .338 Lapua, .416 Rigby, .408 CheyTac, and .505 Gibbs in standard spec. by SAAMI or CIP.

Two rifles with one extra barrel for each would be enough for the stodgy.

12 November 2005, 20:45

RIP

500grains,
Very sharp! That is a Mexican hairless Chihuahua deer, a subspecies of Coues deer with very big racks to serve as heat radiators when they are in the velvet in those hot Chihuahua summers. If you look closely through the bison hair, you can see the right horn of this little bison bull is sticking into the jugular of that taxidermy form for the Chihuahua deer.

13 November 2005, 03:41

boom stick

rip...what do you think of the new 338 Lapua 250 gr. BTHP by hornady...brass?

13 November 2005, 03:54

RIP

boom stick,
I like the Hornady Interbond. Got a link to a new bullet? I haven't kept up with everything lately.
Your position at HA!/DOA is assured if you keep bringing us good poop.

How about a good synthetic stock for a Dakota 76 African that costs less than the $800 that they do at Dakota?

13 November 2005, 03:58

boom stick

sounds awesome!

13 November 2005, 04:03

boom stick

our own vapodog says that hornady will come out with the 404 too...rip will be happy...oh yesssss

more 423 bullets to try out for the 423 lapua, 423 gibbs( one you have not listed...cant believe you missed that one)

13 November 2005, 19:53

schromf

quote:
our own vapodog says that hornady will come out with the 404 too.

Vapodog,

Where did you you hear this I just checked their site, no mention. Do you have any details?

16 November 2005, 06:33

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
our own vapodog says that hornady will come out with the 404 too...rip will be happy...oh yesssss more 423 bullets to try out for the 423 lapua, 423 gibbs( one you have not listed...cant believe you missed that one)

Hornady .423/400gr: Another good thing.

The decision is final at HA!/DOA:
SERIOUS SIX
.308 Lapua
.338 Lapua
.375 Lapua
.416 Rigby
.423 Lapua
.458 Lapua
FEARSOME FOUR
.408 CheyTac
.475 CheyTac
.505 Gibbs
.510 Gibbs

Serious Six plus Fearsome Four equals HANGING TEN

Of course the only relatively unusual offering's here comprise the
FORCE FIVE
(as in F5 Hurricane):

.375 Tornado
.423 Twister
.458 Tembler
.475 Typhoon
.510 Tsunami

Actions: CZ, Dakota, Granite Mountain.

16 November 2005, 07:20

boom stick

cant wait to get mine

17 November 2005, 06:47

RIP

O.K., so I don't have enough weather phenomena "T" words so let's just break the Force Five into Terrestrial and Interstellar:

Three from the .338 Lapua Magnum simply necked up:

.375 Tornado
.423 Typhoon
.458 Tsunami

Two based on the Gibbs case:
.475 Supernova: .408 CheyTac necked up: I claim this as my own unique contribution to the good of humanity.
.510 Big Bang: .505 Gibbs necked up: not new, just ultimately practical. I might just shorten the Gibbs neck by 0.100" but it is otherwise a straight Gibbs neckup.

Force Five

.375 Tornado
.423 Typhoon
.458 Tsunami
.475 Supernova
.510 Big Bang

No .510 Jabba The Hutt nor .475 Chewbacca.

The Force Five will be the first offerings from HA!/DOA. The rest of the Hang Ten cartridges are common enough already, and will be simple rebarrels of your basic two HA! switch-barrel rifles.

17 November 2005, 09:57

Michael Robinson

RIP, you have gone from storms to tidal waves to theories of the origination and ultimate fate of stars and the universe.

Now, I have always felt that there were two too many Z's in Lazzeroni, so take my advice with a block of salt.

But leave the stars and interstellar explosions and implosions to the astrophysicists.

Cartridges should be named after men, powders, trains, champagne bottles and the like. Not forces of nature.

17 November 2005, 10:18

Hog Killer

RIP,

I am starting to think you have gotten hold of some BAD NIK-NIK

Hog Killer

17 November 2005, 10:27

boom stick

i like the 510 big bang

17 November 2005, 13:29

Bent Fossdal

At least they are not named after flowers or girlieboys. Still a bit silly. Probably good cartridges, but named like that, I picture future articles in various gunmagazines, like: "what happened to the HA-cartridges?"

Keep it simple, and they will live for ever!

18 November 2005, 06:32

RIP

Thank you kind gentlemen for not taking this too seriously. Blame it on the Germans, who got me started with the 9.5 mm Tornado. Many thanks to the Finns whose Lapua case got me thinking about the .375 Lapua back in the late 90's. It has been slow hobby going but HA!/DOA will bust out on the world scene with the Force Five soon, like forces of nature.

Of course it will be the .375, .423, and .458 Lapua's and the .475 and .510 Gibbs's just to KISS up to Bent. But they can have the secondary pet names :

quote:

Force Five

.375 Tornado
.423 Typhoon
.458 Tsunami
.475 Supernova
.510 Big Bang

.375 Chui
.423 Simba
.458 Dagaboy
.475 Rhino
.510 Jumbo

Or could someone come up with better sounding African Big Five pet names in Swahili, Setswana, Afrikanns, Zulu, Hottentot, etc.???

18 November 2005, 07:26

boom stick

423-simba swahili for lion (by the way, "THIMBA" means lion hunter...hmmmmm)
458-nyati swahili for cape buff (obvious)
475-Kifaru swahili for rhino (i like this one!)
510-tembo swahili for elephant

18 November 2005, 10:30

boom stick

oh...if you dont like tembo, onjamba is a west african word for elephant too but tembo is good

18 November 2005, 10:50

Bent Fossdal

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:

Of course it will be the .375, .423, and .458 Lapua's and the .475 and .510 Gibbs's just to KISS up to Bent.

I have not been a member for a long time here, but as far as I have learned, kissing up to - anybody - does not seem to be any of your habits!!

Have fun!

19 November 2005, 10:10

RNS

RIP
You need to neck that big 505 case up to use a .550" bullet called the 550 Gibbs Magnum and stick a 800gr bullet in it.

RNS

19 November 2005, 14:20

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by RNS:
RIP
You need to neck that big 505 case up to use a .550" bullet called the 550 Gibbs Magnum and stick a 800gr bullet in it.

RNS

RNS,
I know you are proud of your .550 caliber kitten, but Puhleez! Some of us mortals don't "need" anything bigger than .510 caliber. Besides, the shoulder of the .505 Gibbs is barely big enough for the .505 or .510 if the original Gibbs case body is maintained.

Boom Stick,
You have earned your salary from HA!/DOA: The check is in the mail.

.375 Lapua-Chui
.423 Lapua-Simba
.458 Lapua-Nyati
.475 Gibbs-Kifaru
.510 Gibbs-Tembo

We'll have the 76 Dakota African .423 Lapua ready soon.

Now we need to order those Granite Mountain actions for the Gibbs cartridges.

BTW, "tembo" can mean either "elephant" or "palm wine," in Swahili ... that is funny ... sort of like the hair of the dog that bit you, or the juice of the elephant that stomped you ... good enough for me.

Now I must get back to the factory.

"Ndovu" also means "elephant" in Swahili.