Kevin and Edd's .400 Tembo has a reported case capacity of 107 grains of water gross: .404 Jeffery necked down and shortened to about 2.750" with altered shoulder, and other specifics unknown. Anybody got a cartridge drawing?

The .375 Ruger brass by Hornady has a gross water case capacity of 101.1 grains, as measured by me.

A .375 caliber bullet displaces 27.9 grains of water for each 1.000" of cylindrical length.

A .395 caliber bullet displaces 30.9 grains of water for each inch of full diameter shank.

If we neck the .375 Ruger up to .395, we gain about 1 grain of water capacity for the increase of diameter for the .305" long neck of the .375 Ruger:

(30.9 - 27.9) x (.305) = .915 grain of water

The .305" long neck grows to .322" as it is necked up and expands into the 30 degree shoulder of the .375 Ruger.

The .395 Ruger has an 81.5% of caliber neck length, versus the 81.3% of caliber neck length of the .375 Ruger, assuming we allow the length of brass for both to remain the same max of 2.580". At least a slight improvement, no worse. Maybe someday we will have .375 Ruger basic brass from Hornady and we can give the .395 Ruger a full caliber neck length. That would require brass that is 2.653" long.

Anyhow, .395 Ruger brass has approximate case capacity of 101.1 + 0.915 = 102 grains of water gross.

Now if we load the .395/340-grain bullet out to 3.540" COL instead of a max COL of 3.340", we effectvely gain (0.2")x (30.9 grH20/1.00") = 6.18 grains of water.

A .395 Ruger loaded to the same box length as required by the .400 Tembo will have a 1 grain advantage over the .400 Tembo: 102 + 6 = 108 grains.

Here is a 3.600" long .395 Ruger dummy, second from left:


You get my drift:

A .395 Ruger can easily meet the persnickety standards of the .400 Tembo, in the same rifle size.


But wait: The .395 Ruger can also be loaded short (3.340" COL) and get a little higher pressure in a shorter action than required for the .400 Tembo.

.400/350-grain bullet (SD = .313) from Barnes or Hawk (???)
or
.395/340-grain "Trio" (SD = .311) superiority from GSC:


Not a hard choice.

Kevin and Edd are sadly behind the times in thinking they need SD over .330 for a monometal soft or solid.

They are also being a bit squeamish about pressure, velocity, and recoil.

The .395 Ruger could be loaded down to their squeamish requirements, even with 3.340" COL in a Ruger or Mauser standard length action.

The .395 Ruger could also be loaded up to .395 GSC levels with a 3.540" COL in something like a Pre-64 or Classic Winchester M70.

Finally made my mind up:

.395 Ruger: RIP to collaborate with prof242
.395 GSC: Development by Gerard
.395 Tatanka: RIP in charge

A trio of cartridges for a trio of bullets by GSC.

BTT: Yep, best thing since sliced bread: .395 Tembo

Even if you build it in a 3.340" COL rifle, you can single shot load it to the 3.600" COL for non DG application and keep the box full of 3.340" COL loads for DG.

Light, short, and handy and can be loaded down to .400 Tembo standards, for even the most persnickety "underkill" rifleman.

If I understand this correctly, I could buy a 375 Ruger Hawkeye, have the barrel rebored for the 395, do a bit a reaming of the chamber and have a 395 DG rifle that shoots GS 340 grain flat nose bullets which should, at a minimum, reproduce all the characteristics of the 400 Tembo. All very inexpensively.

Right?

quote:

BTT: Yep, best thing since sliced bread: .395 Tembo

you mean 395 boom stick is the best thing since sliced bread...

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:
If I understand this correctly, I could buy a 375 Ruger Hawkeye, have the barrel rebored for the 395, do a bit a reaming of the chamber and have a 395 DG rifle that shoots GS 340 grain flat nose bullets which should, at a minimum, reproduce all the characteristics of the 400 Tembo. All very inexpensively.

Right?

IBT,
Just make it a switch barrel, and you can have a .375 Ruger and a .395 Ruger-Tembo, which can do the Tembo-Mamba to Doctari's tune.

No .395 rebores are offered unless you get it going.

McGowen barrels are due anytime now, surely before the .375 Ruger gets SAAMI certified or whatever the heck SAAMI does.

I would not order a .375 Ruger reamer until Hornady has the press release of the official specs, just so everyone is on the same page, even though we have already read that page.

boom stick,
You have forfeited any favor with the .395 Family due to your gross neglect. I retract the .395 from any nomenclature with the initials "BS." You abandoned this gift from the .395 Family, and left it for prof242 to keep alive. The .395/.375 Ruger is henceforth to be called the ".395 Ruger-Tembo."

DARN! See what happens when I'm offline for a couple of days? Name changes, etc. Maybe I'll have to change my name to Tembo.
How about the .395 Max? (Now, now, don't think I'm suggesting this just because my first name is Max ) But then, RIP would say the Tatanka is really the Max.
Someone has to come up with the .395 Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Max,
.395 Ruger = easy headstamp conversion of Hornady .375 Ruger brass, right? This makes it easier than getting .400 Tembo brass right?

It will also extend the "Tembo Mamba" dance routine to shorter actioned rifles like the Ruger M77 or unadulterated standard M98 Mausers.

This takes the Tembo concept one step farther, out-Tembo's the .400 Tembo. Therefore the .395 Ruger is the ".395 Ruger-Max-Tembo."


A chicken in every pot, a .395 Ruger in every gunsafe.

You can call it whatever pet name you like, just so it starts with ".395 Ruger..."

I like the idea of changing a "7" to a "9" and having headstamped brass ready to go. All you have to do is grind a .416 expander down to .395 caliber using your drill press a file and a stone. Then start necking up some brass to get ready to fireform. That brass is just waiting for

barrels
reamers
bullets
and custom dies

Looks like maybe I'll be building a .395 Ruger-Max-Tembo on a Ruger before Stuart Satterlee gets that Magnum action ready for the .395 Tatanka.

"Patience, Jackass, patience ..." the secret thoughts of an action builder beleaguered by rifle loonies ...

boom stick,
You have forfeited any favor with the .395 Family due to your gross neglect. I retract the .395 from any nomenclature with the initials "BS." You abandoned this gift from the .395 Family, and left it for prof242 to keep alive. The .395/.375 Ruger is henceforth to be called the ".395 Ruger-Tembo."

rip...are you breaking the forums "air cat dibbs" rule???

rip...you are making yourself judge and jury is not maffia it is dictatorship...

even the mafia has rules...

ron the "benevolent dictator" berry...

it is not neglect but ability.

this is all for fun and amusement i know and everyone will call it what they want...but it will always be a b.s.

.395 Ruger Max.
Forget the Tembo Mamba dance routine.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rip...are you breaking the forums "air cat dibbs" rule???

The sacred rule of "air cat dibbs" seems to have run headlong up against the ancient rules of....

"Crap or get off the pot."

"Walk the talk."

"Put up or shut up."

"Action speaks louder than words."

"Possession is......



Cheers,
Canuck

the other interesting case to make it on is the 06 cuzz it will be the largest cal you could go without having extremes of headspace or taper on that case...yes i know the 411 and 416 can and have been made to work fine...

yes canuck the openly discretionary limited funds people are easy targets...

but i feel i make up for it in ideas, creativity and loonacy

since i do not have safes full of guns to hug all i can do is come up with wacky wildcat ideas and drive some of you nuts.

If its any consolation, I was poking as much fun at the rediculous rule of "air cat dibbs" as anything else.

No offence if its serious but the whole concept makes me

I am sure lots of people that will spend significant sums of $$ to develop a cartridge for the first time would definitely honor the "air cat dibbs" list when assigning a name!!!

No intention to rain on your parade of ideas, creativity and lunacy, but I am pretty sure that the actual "rule" is: If you want your name on a cart, you have have to be the first one to actually BUILD it! (or commission it I suppose).

Cheers,
Canuck

the most important thing here is filling the gap between the 375 and 416...and having fun doing it...lots of props to rip and gerard for this.

they have done shit and wiped their asses with honor.

yes i got the humor...

the "air cat dibbs" is all fun cuzz if they wanted to have it all to themseles they would not post it until it was done.

i think it is great to have a place to share and better ideas with all the collective experience, genius and loonacy.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

... they have done shit and wiped their asses with honor.

The nerve! boom stick tried to make the .395 his "idea" by association, and now he speaks of honor.

The only reason the .395 exists as a work in progress is because Gerard Schultz agreed to make the bullets and Harry McGowen agreed to make the barrels. The first glimmerings of the .395 came in a post on this forum wherein I noted the gap between .375 and .416 as being the largest void in my .223 to .510 caliber rifle lineup.

Gerard Schultz is the first person in the world to create anything in .395 caliber rifle hardware. He is the "father" of the .395. I am the "godfather" of this baby.

I guess that makes Harry McGowen the "mother."


Happy Mother's Day.

The only other family member as yet is Made Man Max, who has ordered a barrel.

The .395 Racket is growing very slowly.

rip...i give all credit to you and gerard...no usurping here

Quit yer whining. Do something. Anything!

remind me to not give you any compliments

there hows that

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
remind me to not give you any compliments

there hows that

Throw down the shovel boomie, soon as you get that dead horse buried.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=188559
rip, p242... i just found out Montana Precision Swaging Cast Bullets in 395 come in 330 370 and 400 grains...

that would give an s.d. of 366...i wonder how well they would hold up @ 2300 fps or if they need to me kept to 2150ish being lobbed from an 06 based 395

Made for paper patching to fit .401 caliber BP barrels.

They would be good fire-forming slugs for the .395 Tatanka and .395 GSC, would be good for squirrel hunting too, while forming brass.

The .395 Ruger Max needs no fire-forming, just necking up.

Those bullets would still make nice squibb/squirrel-hunting loads for the .395 Ruger Max.

I think the 330-grainers would be fine for squirrels.

at 30-06 case varriant velocities the 330, 370 and 400 grains will be great for hunting ect and "squirrel forming" HA! when that squirrel gets to heaven and found out the nature of its death its gunna be pissed.

these swaged bullets make the 395 a not so expensive wildcat to shoot now.

the 400 grainers will be a hammer! i wonder what hardness they are???

Oh great Boom Stick, provider of ideas. There was no conspiracy to deny you your due (or is that doo doo). I was only kidding in the above post, but...
As far as the lead bullets in 330-400grains, I'm planning on trying to temper them. Might work. Then I'd like to either use one of the new liquid lubes or moly-coat them for practice use (remember my grandchildren?). A 400 grain bullet fired about 1500 fps...Holy cow! I've reinvented a .45-70!

A 400gr .395 bullet at 1500fps will however penetrate better than a .458 400gr bullet at 1500fps. The 395 has a faster twist (1:12") and, no doubt, someone will try to give credit to the higher Sd number. Given that a 45-70 already has enough penetration ability to slay anything that walks the planet, that is quite something.

SD = .366 for a 400-grain .395-caliber bullet!

How could this possibly be good for penetration with a monometal solid??? I used to have trouble getting you to accept your own .375/300-grainer. They were supposed to be so long they would tumble too soon in target, etc.

The 340-grain weight at higher velocity has got to be better for .395 caliber FN solid penetration than a 400-grainer eh?

We may need a 400-grain SP for the .395 caliber just so we can take the world record for 1000-yard smallest group, but surely not for hunting with.

What are you up to Gerard?

I will call Harry Friday and see if the barrels are shipped yet.

Come now RIP, everyone knows that there is nothing that kills better than a 45-70 .458 bullet going at 1500fps. There is a special set of rules for those, that have nothing to do with normally accepted terminal ballistics.

I was merely voicing my thoughts around penetration at 1500fps with lead bullets. There is mild surprise on my part that no one has challenged the premise of superior penetration that a .395" 400gr bullet will probably have over a 400gr .458, both at 1500fps.

O.K., I was stuck in the monometal copper rut.
No doubt the .395/400-grain cast lead bullet at 1500 fps would be an excellent squirrel load.

Using small charges of faster powders and fillers it ought to be possible in any of the .395 Trio cartridges: GSC, Ruger Max, or Tatanka.

Tell you what. If everything (barrels, bullets, action, dies) comes together by this deer season, I will use the Montana bullet for my deer hunt. Of course hero pictures, fired bullet (if recovered), and a 'truthful' story of said hunt will accompany those pics.
Colorado has some hunts where you can get an extra doe license. I think that ought to do it...unless there are those that think I might be undergunned.

O.K., Max, I am on the .395 Ruger Max trail, since I want to use a Satterlee Stainless Magnum Mauser action serial number SSMM00001 for the .395 Tatanka.

I can start on a .395 Ruger Max with any standard M98, M70, or even (shudder) M700 I have lying fallow.

BTW barrels are expected to be finished within 2 weeks. See next thread.

I'm still trying to find a Ruger MK-II in stainless, left-hand. If any of our members know of one in either of the magnum calibers, let me know. The cash is available.

Max,
I thought those grew on trees, found at any gunshop?
Whittaker Guns in KY has plenty, new and used.
They don't list everything they have on the website, for example try to find the .375 Ruger African Hawkeye, but a telephone call would get one delivered to an FFL, cheap and fast:
www.whittakerguns.com

They have a "Clean" used stainless/synthetic M77 MKII in .300 WinMag for $429 listed under used guns, Ruger.

RIP, you are a gem! I've been all over...well Colorado Springs, Denver, Pueblo, and not found one. I'll give them a call in a few minutes.
Max