Here's some pics of a Remington Spartan Model SPR22 from the Houston NRA Show, caliber 45-70, available now according to the Remington rep. Sorry about the pic quality. These rifles are pretty "spartan", the adjustments between the barrels are flimsey looking, but this example had pretty wood and probably will be a fun rifle for the money (about $550):

I'd be curious to see/handle one... The pics are hard to tell alot from. It does look a bit "cheap" but then again it could be a fun gun when kept in perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by 458RugerNo1:
It does look a bit "cheap"...

I think it looks crudely built, but at that price point, how much can you expect?

Georger

I'm with Geo, its pretty basic, but the price is not bad. I bet many are sold, heck, I'm good for one just for grins, just have to find out where to get one. I hope they can be bought by my FFL guy through a distributer. I really do not what to have to get one from Wallyworld.

Haha, I like that it's called the "Spartan." Ironic. But for $500 it might be tempting.

quote:

Gringo Cazador: I bet many are sold, heck, I'm good for one just for grins

Billy, there was a waiting line just to handle that rifle and the rep said they were seeing lots of interest. No, the overall finish & construction frankly isn't that great, but for the price there will be lots of buyers.

That's the kind of workmanship that the 45-70 crowd demands, so it should be a great hit.

Undoubtedly someone will ream it out to .460 Wby...

500

We're actually thinking 450#2 !

Les

I wouldn't go out of my way looking for one, but if there is one in the rack at closing time, she's going home with me. Sometimes the ugly ones can be fun.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Sometimes the ugly ones can be fun.

I agree, as long as none of your friends see you with her.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Sometimes the ugly ones can be fun.

I agree, as long as none of your friends see you with her.

George

True. Best done on a road trip.

I like them as a play gun, it looks like it would be more fun than a basket full of puppies.

I saw on Remington's website that the action is limited to 28,000 psi which means a 400 grain bullet at about 1600-1700 fps. Would it be strong enough to turn into a 450 #2?

I got to handle the Spartan SxS, this morning @ the NRA show. It is a small frame, looks like a 28ga or maybe a 20ga, size. The thing felt like it only weighed about 7-7 1/2lbs. A Kodiak 45-70 would make a much better 450 #2, than the Spartan. One thing that I didnot like was, when opening the action the barrels did not always open all of the way. Sometimes it would fall back to where it looked like there would be a feeding or clearing problem with the top of the breech face. I pointed this out to the Remington booth worker. I told him that this was unexectable as it would slow reloading down and be a general pain to deal with. He did go get a note pad and noted my comments about the problem. Maybe they will correct this fault.

Over all, I liked what I saw. For a $500 firearm it looks like fun. I plan on getting one, I just hope that they fix the problem listed above.

The other doubles that I saw were in the WR booth, $23,000 - $75,000

Hog Killer

Is this the Baikal? Same as chambered in 30-06 and 9.3x62?
If so, the pressure max is just SAAMI spec. Not anything to do with the rifle. Liability.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Is this the Baikal? Same as chambered in 30-06

Yep

Hog Killer

One reamed to 450 No. 2 would be tempting. That front sight would have to go. Probably refinish and checker the wood. Crap it looks like another project gun for me. But,might be fun.
Doug

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Is this the Baikal? Same as chambered in 30-06 and 9.3x62?
If so, the pressure max is just SAAMI spec. Not anything to do with the rifle. Liability.

Wouldn't the cartridge case thrust be the limiting factor, instead of PSI?

45-70 (.608 Rim) .302*.302*3.14159*28,000psi = 8,022 Lbs force
30.06 (.473 Rim) .2365*.2365*3.14159*60,000psi = 10,542 Lbs force
If you extrapolate that, it means that you could load the 45-70 to 36,000+psi to get the same thrust to the face.

At 38,000 PSI the 45-70 will push a 400 grain bullet just over 1800 fps. I still don't know how you could chamber it in 450 #2.

Hey guys, this thing only weighs about 7 lbs. That is about 3 lbs. to light for a 450 #2. The frame is only about 2" wide. This is a small, light rifle.

Hot 45-70's will probably give you all ythe recoil you will want.

Hog Killer

Hog Killer is correct. This rifle is just not designed for 450 Nitro velocities.
As a 45/70 it should be a fun, affordable double.
Do not try to make a "silk purse" [buffalo gun] out of a sow's ear [great double for deer, wild pigs, black bear over bait etc, and other game shot fairly close up].

What happened to the Baikal? Has it been released? Even though the Remington is ugly looking ,I would like to get one as a fun gun. Is it going to be just a limited production run? When will it be available?

I would like one but getting one in Australia will be a pain in the ass I suppose .

I have one of their combo guns in 12x7.57R. I good reliaible gun. The rifle barrel well put the first two shot right next to each other put when it heats up they spread out a bit.

It puts slugs and rifle bullets into the same hole at 30 yards with the same site picture.

I have taken turkeys and deer with it and it works just fine.

If the double rifle works as well as this combo gun it well be a fine toy or tool to have.

Iam thinking a fine rifle for hound bear hunting.

Could it handle the 450#2?, or what about the hot Garrett loads???

cr500, this is the Baikal. Remington bought the exclusive rights to all production under the Spartan name.

okay.. it's a 550$ double rifle...

i aint totally jazzed with it's looks...

show me the next one for TWICE that amount?!??!


Aint one...

can get another 45/70 for 4 times that amount....

Hey Jeffe, how was the camping?

How is it regulated? Will it be possible to adjust the regulation?

I agree, for the price, it might be worth it. I have Baikal 12ga. Not pretty, but solid. This could be little gem, if it can be made to shoot to point of aim.

Baikal had a 12ga coach gun that had a 45-70 insert. I knew several guys that bought 2 inserts in an attempt to turn it into a double rifle. They were never able to get barrels regulated. Hopefully, this model will be different. Part of fun of the 45-70 is the flexibility you get when you handload for it.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
That's the kind of workmanship that the 45-70 crowd demands, so it should be a great hit.

Undoubtedly someone will ream it out to .460 Wby...

500g...
do you want some cheese to go with that whine??

Damn, I am tired of the elistist crap... if you MUST have an english rifle and MUST pay AT LEAST 15 times what this sells for, then by all means do so...

just get off your high horse about it

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
That's the kind of workmanship that the 45-70 crowd demands, so it should be a great hit.

Undoubtedly someone will ream it out to .460 Wby...

500g...
do you want some cheese to go with that whine??

Damn, I am tired of the elistist crap... if you MUST have an english rifle and MUST pay AT LEAST 15 times what this sells for, then by all means do so...

just get off your high horse about it

jeffe

Yeah, comments like this really go a long way towards cementing and bonding friendship amongst the bretheren of the shooting set. "Yas, I think your Pertootler double is very nice but it is not in a class with my Doubtful & Terwillinger 'Persuader' - please move your piece of inferior crap into the next gunrack as it may well contaminate my wonderful thumb buster." What an atitude. My own battery contains no less than 4 45/70's at the moment and I long for another in the persuasion of a Browning single shot.
Now, having said all that, the most recent issue of the Rifleman has a story on the Ruger "Gold Label" double barrel. This gun is supposed to retail for about $2000 and looks very much like the classic round action doubles. I have heard rumors for years that Ruger was going to issue up a double rifle and I onder if this be true will it be based on the Gold Label action? If it is anything like my Ruger No 1 - yes, in 45/70 - then it will be a quality piece. If so, put me down for one, and I would prefer it to be chambered for the 45/125 Sharps caliber, thank you very much. I'll gladly take it from there and it will warm the cockles of this old Cajun's heart.

quote:

375 AI: How is it regulated? Will it be possible to adjust the regulation?

Yes it can be regulated. There is an adjustment between the barrels.

I wonder who will the first person to get one of these and get it rechambered and blow an eye or a few fingers off?

I think they would be fun in the calibres that they are being released in. A .45/70 would be a nice black powder equivalent, plus a few fps, woods double rifle. If they are this cheap in Oz (I doubt it) I will get one too.



CR500

I think they are being imported into Aust under the true makers name, ie Baikal. At least that is the last I heard. Spartan is just Remingtons re-badging of the Baikal.


PC

If you really want one, we should see what we can do if we can get five or so guys together.



Jeffe

500grains is a Searcy man, not English doubles.

Just spoke with remington...
SOME are "trickling" in today... but no one at remington could tell me to which distributor... i think these are bound for writers..

there will be two "models".. one blued action, for limited distribution and one nickled(sp) for general distribution.

currently there will only be 30-06 and 45/70...

remington is FLOORED at the response...

no distributors, that i can find, are taking advance orders, as this product has been delayed too many times

as for this under the baikal name
don't look for that to happen, as remington bought the entire rights to production.

jeffe

What the heck, I want one too. A good scope cost nearly $500 and a great one can cost 2x that!

I'll have it engraved by the Brown Bros., case-colored, restocked in fine Eng. Walnut, rust blued and put a Swarovski in claw mounts on top!

It's a $500 double rifle - just have fun with it.

I talked with my dealer and he said good luck getting one for awhile. He says that distributors will be charging a premium for them now and only selling to their biggest customers. He is also willing to bet me the cost of the rifle, that people will be paying closer to $700.

Jeffe,

The 450 NE crowd will be moaning when a bunch of these get re-chambered.

If it can withstand the 30-06 etc. it can withstand the NE stuff assuming the case isn't too big. Hell, make up your own WILDCAT NE, that will really kill the H&H crowd!

A double is only really needed 1/10th of 1% of the time, if ever. So for a $1000, why not?

I put a double order in for 2, one in 45-70 and one in 30-06, this was about a mont ago, they said as soon aa the dealer gets a heads up I would have to make a deposit, as of yet I have not heard back' for $500 it should be a fun gun this way I can use some pointed bullets in 45-70

I don't think there is enough room to rechamber these guns. As Keith said, they are very lightweight, feel like the old cheapo Stevens M-311 410 double shotguns to me. I seriously doubt if anyone will bother to customize one either, they are what they are.

Heh Forrest,
even for my, my ~7# handirifle in 45/70 is a nice handful..


if i get bored with my 45/70 spartan, and i honestly believe it wont go to 450 ne (I don't think it's even CLOSE to big enough) I can always get 2# of tungstun and a 45 rcbs reamer (3.25" 45/70)

but i bet 405's at 1800 will be a good warmup!!

jeffe

quote:

jeffeosso: my ~7# handirifle in 45/70 is a nice handful..i bet 405's at 1800 will be a good warmup!

That handirifle hurt me more than my Lott! (tried not to show it at the time, notice I didn't ask to shoot it again) 405's at 1800 will be plenty enough for most folks in the little Spartan, me included.

Forrest,
me TOO!!!

but i like shooting that little brute!!

jeffe