Dear CZ,
Make mine Kevlar, please.

Yours truly,
Rip

A friend of mine had a CZ 458 crack in the same spot.

Ozhunter,
Was your friend's .458 an American style stock of "fancy" American black walnut,
or was it the "Euro-Lux" hogback or straight-comb?

Whatever it was, it must have been cross-grained through the grip.

I suppose the Turkish walnut, "Euro-Lux" walnut, and Australian walnut might be better than the American black walnut.

However, none of them have a chance if they are cross-grained through the grip.

Marble cake in the grip is a no-no.

This was only a 404 Jeffery.
The .505 Gibbs next to it has stood up to more pounding.

Since I first posted that pic, there has been a rash of stock blank pics here showing straight-grained wood with grain flow arching nicely through the grip.

If I have a choice from here out, it is synthetic for me.

I pity the poor souls with wood fetish in their pinky fingers.

shootaway and Gee-Haw-Ass are on ignore,
so please don't anybody post any shootaway quotes about "loose screws"
unless it is about shootaway's loose screws in his noggin.

Nor any quotes of demands by Gee-Haw-Ass about whether the rifle had been thoroughly checked over,
cross-bolted, pillared, and properly glass bedded by a "gumsmith"
before it was ever fired.

None of that matters if the direction of the wood cleavage planes is nearing perpendicular to the long axis of the wrist.

Czech Walnut - Deciduoso Crackulottus Lignobrittelous. Plastic mo betta ...

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Czech Walnut - Deciduoso Crackulottus Lignobrittelous. Plastic mo betta ...

Plastic mo betta!

This 404 Jeffery only saw 2200 fps with 400-grain Woodleighs and H4831, only 40 shots.

My plastic-stocked M70 404 Jeffery has over 400 rounds through it with:

400-grainers at 2400 fps
380-grainers at 2525 fps
340-grainers at 2700 fps.

Is CZ-USA importing complete, stocked rifles, or do they stock them in-house?

In short, are these stocks supplied by CZ-Brno, or by CZ-USA?

The Safari Classics start as an action imported from Czechoslovakia to CZ-USA in Kansas City, Kansas.

The barrels on my .505 and 404 were made by McGowen.
Fine barrels. Mine are 1:10" twist, both of them.
Not a custom order, that was the standard twist by CZ's execution.

The wood of the "American-style" stocks on the Safari Classics is "American black walnut."
ESP makes me think the stocks are manufactured in Missouri, and shipped nextdoor to KC, KS.

No jackasses requested, but any Missouri mule with the facts is requested to "show me."

quote:

No jackasses requested, but any Missouri mule with the facts is requested to "show me."

Sorry RIP.....

I agree with Shootaway, the cross grain in the wrist would not have been an issue if you had the action screws tight.

quote:

I am sure he just didn't tighten his guard screws.He should pay closer attention to the basic or elementary part of shooting and less on the wildcat stuff...

A balsa wood stock would hold up on a 500 if the screws were tight, right?

quote:

The Safari Classics start as an action imported from Czechoslovakia to CZ-USA in Kansas City, Kansas.

I thought so. Had a number of Czech CZ-Brno in the past 20-25 years, and wood always looks much less fancy, less shiny, rougher checkering. And you can knock a lot of things on the head with it, never had an issue with any stock in any condition.

Guess that to have "pretty" and "strong" takes some careful choosing...

quote:

Originally posted by Philip A.:


Guess that to have "pretty" and "strong" takes some careful choosing...

And a fair amount of cash.

quote:

A balsa wood stock would hold up on a 500 if the screws were tight, right?

Probably - since Balsa is significantly stronger than Walnut ...

OK someone please make a stock out of balsa wood please...
Maybe a clear epoxy for the bedding and coating

Make a 5 lb 600 OK for SAFARIKID

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

A balsa wood stock would hold up on a 500 if the screws were tight, right?

Probably - since Balsa is significantly stronger than Walnut ...

By weight I would believe it, but for a stock of the same dimensions???? I am not going to say you are wrong, I will let the chart say it for me.



From: link

quote:

Strength of Balsa Compared to Other Woods

Species ---- Weight ---- Stiffness ---- Bending ---- Compression
Balsa ---- 8 ---- 72 ---- 70 ---- 75
Balsa ---- 10 ---- 100 ---- 100 ---- 100
Balsa ---- 14 ---- 156 ---- 161 ---- 149
Spruce ---- 28 ---- 230 ---- 260 ---- 289
Yellow Pine ---- 28 ---- 222 ---- 277 ---- 288
Douglas Fir ---- 30 ----- 241 ---- 291 ---- 341
Hickory ----- 50 ---- 379 ---- 638 ---- 514
Oak ---- 48 ---- 295 ---- 430 ---- 366
Basswood ---- 26 ---- 261 ---- 288 ---- 288
Black Walnut ---- 37 ---- 301 ---- 506 ---- 512

About the Chart: Weight shown is in pounds per cubic foot. The strength of balsa varies in direct relation to its density or weight — the heavier the wood, the stronger it is. The above chart was designed with 10 lb/ft³ balsa as the median. In other words, balsa at 10 lb/ft³ has been tested and given a value of 100. The other woods were then tested in the same way and given a figure that is numerically in proportion. By comparing the relative strength figures in the chart, it will be seen that balsa is as strong or stronger, pound for pound, than most of the species shown.

And you know what, with the right treatment that Balsa Stock would end up being nearly as strong as Kevlar and still LOOK better.

Its amazing what one can do with a bit of Everdue mixed in with E90 epoxy and Spectra Woven Roven matting. And the Balsa grain will still show through. Hell you could stain it as you do the above to any base colour you like.

This would be the surfboard stock. maybe a tripple stringer with teak stringers for strength.

Surfs up!
If it floats it would be good as a boat gun.

With my CZ 458 Lott I have a laminated stock with two bolts. I have shot 500gr solids at 2350 fps
and there is no signs of a crack. I have shot about 30 rounds threw it

JBrown,
Your humor is appreciated, which started this balsa bollox.

Your numbers on wood are also appreciated.
Obviously a balsa stock would be light and weak in comparison to walnut.

Hickory has them all beat on all parameters of the woods shown, and the heaviest too, 50 lbs/cu-ft versus 37 for walnut.

Where are the figures on the subspecies and environmental factors affecting strength of walnut?

Walnut may be the best compromise on weight versus strength,
but hickory makes better baseball bats.
My next wood stock will have to be hickory,
slim and trim.

I think an ultralight balsa tripple string stock for 30-06 would be neato

the 638hp 200+mph Corvette has a balsa floorplan.
But, they make sure to get the stock bolts tight!

Rich
DRSS

Does anyone have a good source for replacement synthetic stocks for Ruger 77 Magnum rifles? After using the Hawkeye African for a couple years now the magnums feel like a 4x4 in my hand. Thinking McMillan or HS Precision? I have a 416 Rigby and a 458WM that Id like to restock.

Rob,
None exist.
Shoot your RSM until something goes wrong and then send it back to Ruger, for replacement wood.

Ruger is said to refuse warranty stock repair if anyone has tampered with the factory bedding, which is steel against wood.

The RSM has only one recoil lug, and it anchors in the middle of the forearm.
No recoil lug integral to the action.
Only one "detachable" recoil lug on the entire rifle.
The "recoil plate" bedding system.

The single crossbolt is a "faux" crossbolt.
It does not do backup duty to any recoil lug on the action.
Because there is none.

Most synthetics are hollow or foam-filled in the forearm.

We could expound longterm about how to build a synthetic stock for the RSM.
That would best include a full bedding block from recoil plate lug in the middle of the forearm
and reaching all the way back to the tang,
with a 45-degree pillar in front of the alloy walls surrounding the magazine box,
and all covered over with graphite, kevlar, and fiberglass.

If any synthetics for the RSM exist, they have been custom made.

I would be happy to hear I am wrong.

CZ's better alternative, only 2 lbs. 10 oz.,
what RSM owners can only dream of:














True drop-in fit on a .416 Rigby:











True drop-in accuracy, with the first load tried, in the rain:

I believe wood is more accurate than synthetic and I don't care what any bechrest shooter says.IMO,wood absorbs and distributes recoil or vibration better than synthetic.

RIP

Thanks. I had never seen a stock offered for the RSM in the past but hope springs eternal!

My main objection is the ergonomics of the factory stock. The Hawkeye is much better in terms of balance and handling.

ROb

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I believe wood is more accurate than synthetic and I don't care what any bechrest shooter says.IMO,wood absorbs and distributes recoil or vibration better than synthetic.

Thankfully you qualified your post as opinion. If your reference to synthetic is simply the classic "tupperware" stock you are pretty much correct. If you are referring to any synthetic then you couldn't be any more incorrect. A designed for purpose composite stock won't have any grain issues and will be designed to spread the recoil and any other actions in a desired way. Laminate stocks are much the same as composite in that things can be engineered in or out of the design.

Ken....

RIP,

After seeing the remains of your wood stock, I am feeling a little better about the synthetic stocks I have to use as I can't afford the lovely wood that many put on their rifles.

I have one in a McMillan, one in a HS Precision, a couple in Hogues, and more than one in Fajen's synthetics.

None have failed ... even when subjected to the likes of a .458 AR ... and when properly bedded they shoot as well as I need a hunting rifle to shoot. For example the .458 AR shot a cloverleaf at sight-in in Africa and the .338 WM on a McMillan shoots 2" at 300 yards if I can pull the trigger well.

Pretty wood is lovely. Nice that there is a more reasonably priced alternative for us poor folk.

quote:

Goodbye Cruel Wood

Well, see ya RIP. It was a good run, I guess.

Oh, wood, eh? Sorry.

RIP,

Being an MD I'd think that by now you should be aware to JUST SAY NO TO CRACK!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I believe wood is more accurate than synthetic and I don't care what any bechrest shooter says.

Ya know shootaway, you're right. What do the benchrest guys know about accuracy anyway? They are like a herd of sheep, always quick to follow the latest fad. Sad really.

Thank God you have not been brain-washed. And thank God we have you to set us straight.

Why don't they make cocobolo stocks for the big guns?

RIP: I like that CZ glass/kevlar stock. Looks like the same one I've got on my 30-06...

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
Why don't they make cocobolo stocks for the big guns?

RIP: I like that CZ glass/kevlar stock. Looks like the same one I've got on my 30-06...

I love cocobolo!
I hear it is quite toxic though and damn heavy but I would want one
My dream stock is desert ironwood.

I broke my CZ stock worse than that in June. I fell 4' off the truck onto it. Broke it through the wrist and up into the mag well. The nice thing about it is I really think it kept me from breaking my hip or pelvis. Worst down side is a big lump on my butt a full 3 mos later and the $700.00USD it cost to replace it in the Kalahari.

RIP,

Eastern black walnut, with proper layout, is every bit as strong as turkish, english, austrailian, etc. Your stock was crap ass California/west coast claro with disgustingly weak slab cut layout.

Claro is good only for 22 RF and that is about it IMHO.

Hope your new stock works out better for you.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:

Claro is good only for 22 RF and that is about it IMHO.

I am no fan of claro, but Weatherby has used it on most of their rifles for about half a century FWIW.

RIP,

How do the B&C stock's dimensions "feel" compared to the McMillan stock?

I love my wood "Bavaria's Best" stock for open site shooting. The McMillan is better for use with a scope (Leup 1-5).

Black Sheep of the Family,

LD

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

I am no fan of claro, but Weatherby has used it on most of their rifles for about half a century FWIW.

Except on the 460 and my understanding is that is a marketing thing. French is also on all calibres in the Wby Safari rifle.

In fibreglass I like this

http://www.weatherby.com/_imag...rkv_dgr_snowcamo.jpg

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
I am no fan of claro, but Weatherby has used it on most of their rifles for about half a century FWIW.

When Weatherby designed what they thought was the epitome of a dangerous game rifle, I don't think they had Claro in mind:

http://www.weatherby.com/customshop/customrifle/40706

Wonder why a company like Weatherby would go with a synthetic option for a dangerous game setup?

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
RIP,

How do the B&C stock's dimensions "feel" compared to the McMillan stock?

I love my wood "Bavaria's Best" stock for open site shooting. The McMillan is better for use with a scope (Leup 1-5).

Black Sheep of the Family,

LD

Bro'Dart,
I have one of the McMillan stocks (for BRNO ZKK 602/CZ 550 Magnum), and 3 of these CZ Kevlar stocks made by Bell&Carlson of Dodge City, Kansas.

The CZ Kevlar stock is the best thing since smokeless powder and sliced bread.

Not only is the feel better, with its palm-swell and slimness everywhere else,
but it has obviously proven features that B&C learned to do for Weatherby:

• Black Fibermark® stock with CNC-machined aluminum bedding plate

(copied from Jim's link)

The McMillan is not as good, and you have to order one and wait how long to get it?

Price is about the same.
CZ: $425 for one

Delivered in a few days after a telephone call to CZ-USA.

There is a discount for a quantity of 10.
I did not ask how much 10 of them would cost.
AHR needs to, since they are using MPI.

This CZ "Kevlar" stock is as much better than the McMillan,
as the McMillan is better than the MPI.

The Lux Euro-Hogback is a nicer stock than the Fancy Amero-Fatback, or Laminated Amero-Fatback, aye.
I like the feel and function of the Kevlar just as well as the Lux.
Maybe better.

Slim "Amero-Kevlar."

The Amero-Kevlar-stocked rifle is over 1/4 pound lighter than the Lux walnut-stocked rifle,
and over 1/2 pound lighter than the American walnut-stocked rifle.
Partly due to no steel "F-Chunk" in the forearm of the Kevlar stock.
I think it is lighter and stronger than a standard fill McMillan stock, but have not weighed those side by side.

Forget all the pillars and cross bolts with the Kevlar stock's full bedding block, "CNC machined."

Yes, CZ is out to please. They replaced my broken marble-gripped stock within a week of receiving the "evidence."
I requested the Kevlar rather than go the wood route again.
I am happy I got one of these Kevlars for free,
though I suffered the grief of saying "goodbye cruel wood" and time, trouble, and a waste of perfectly good pillar bedding and addition of two cross bolts to the "marble gripped" stock.
The new 404 will not be limited to 400-grainers at 2200 fps now.
25" barrel with Varget Extreme:

400-grainers at 2425 fps (sub-max pressure)
380-grainers at 2550 fps
340-grainers at 2725 fps
320-grainers at 2825 fps (max pressure)

Governing body of the above pressures is RIP, not CIP,

as predicted for this 9-pound-1-ounce dry-weight, rifle,
that balances on the front action screw,
and will hold 5 rounds in the box, 1 in the chamber,
perfect feeding with any bullet, FN to spitzer.
The standard CZ .375 H&H box is perfect for 404 Jeffery geometry,
by Mauser Cosine Law:

Thank you very much RIP.

I do like my McMillan for scope work. When I can travel again, it is also good for take-down into two parts. Of course, the Kevlar is just as good for that.

The lady who runs CZ-USA is making some good moves.

They will likely come out with a Rutland laminated birch stock on the heavy kickers as well.

IIRC, the fellow who runs the repair/parts shop is pretty nice to deal with. Is that the guy you were referring to?

Thanks for resurrecting the G/D picture. New computer, so all the old pictures are buried.

baby bro'