Lol.

Just kidding. Who would have thought the 9.3 post would become one of the epic trolls of all time?

lol...no its a cart baiting thread.

If I didn't already own my 375H&H I would have already chambered my left handed Ruger 7 Mag to 375 Ruger.

But, I'd never sell my H&H for a Ruger.

But, if Ruger legitimizes a 40+ caliber Ruger cartridge on the 375 Ruger case, my 7 Mag is toast.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
lol...no its a cart baiting thread.

Hey now, I resemble that remark! Hopefully all will forgive my one indiscretion. I had noble intentions...I was hoping to generate some interesting and constructive discussion, but, alas, the Luddites amongst us can't get past the "newness" and "classless" aspects of the 375 Ruger.

C'est la vie,
Canuck

Ok, new corvette VS '63 split window? New Shelby mustang VS 65 GT350? 416 Rigby VS 416 Remington?

Rich
DRSS

oh yeah, one more...gays VS straights? Which gender preference do you prefer for your grandsons?

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by analog_peninsula:
Lol.

Just kidding. Who would have thought the 9.3 post would become one of the epic trolls of all time?

C'mon...be nice. It has gotten carried away but "all time"???....sheesh...it doesn't even come close to all of the truly epic threads about the "45-70 for DG", the "Sierra Match King for Big Game", the "Sectional Density vs Momentum times Cross Setional Area" wars, the "270 for Elk" threads, the "Double vs Bolt", "CRF vs Push Feed", etc, etc, etc......

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
oh yeah, one more...gays VS straights? Which gender preference do you prefer for your grandsons?

Rich
DRSS

Very droll. Maybe a step beyond "good taste", eh? Odd for one that is promoting "class". And a bit of a stretch if you meant for that to be analagous to choosing between a 9.3x62 and the 375 Ruger!

Anyhoo, it would be nice if one could just discuss technical merits and drawbacks with you.

Here's one for you.... 505 Gibbs vs 510 Kayser Express?

For a wildcatter you have an interesting (selective?) way of looking at new technology.

Cheers,
Canuck

edited slightly to better reflect my point.

quote:

C'mon...be nice. It has gotten carried away but "all time"???....sheesh...it doesn't even come close to all of the truly epic threads about the "45-70 for DG", the "Sierra Match King for Big Game", the "Sectional Density vs Momentum times Cross Setional Area" wars, the "270 for Elk" threads, the "Double vs Bolt", "CRF vs Push Feed", etc, etc, etc......

Ah....the Good Ol Days on AR... When everythign on the intraweb was fresh and new.

the h+h is overtapered imho.
keep the same shoulder angle and position but take out 40 thou taper and you will still have 25 thou taper and be perfect!

still plenty of taper, slick feeding and get another 50 fps and still use factory ammo.

I'm now building both a 416 Ruger and a .375 Ruger.
One on a Persian M'98 and the other on a VZ-24.

I also have a M-70 Classic in .375 H&H.....and as soon as I get the .375 Ruger shooting to my satisfaction I'm going to let the M-70 go

I don't need both so one must go.....I really like the .375 Ruger a lot!

Canuck: it was meant in jest. Heck, I was one of the first to bite.



Besides, methinks you underestimate your chain-yanking ability.

I received a lot of PMs over my comment about letting the .375 M-70 classic go.....Too mant to reply to as a matter of fact.....I'll post it here when I do but it's not going to be anytime soon as I have a helluvalotta projects in the fire!

What a conundrum! If you own an old time favourite, you are afraid that a new cartridge will come along and make it obsolete. If you own a new cartridge, you are afraid that it won't catch on and it will become obsolete.

I have an 375 H&H (old cartridge) and a 300WSM (new cartridge). It looks like I will have to get a 375 Ruger and a 30-06 just to cover my bases. (Now there's a cheery thought!)

On a slight tangent, I have heard it said that the 416 Remington Magnum was designed to give 416 Rigby performance in a standard action. Could it not also be said that the 375 Ruger gives 375 H&H performance in a standard action? Maybe this has already been said and I had just stepped out for coffee.

quote:

On a slight tangent, I have heard it said that the 416 Remington Magnum was designed to give 416 Rigby performance in a standard action. Could it not also be said that the 375 Ruger gives 375 H&H performance in a standard action? Maybe this has already been said and I had just stepped out for coffee.

The comment about the 416 Remington isn't true.....it's based on the .375 H&H length but the .375 Ruger is still about the same as a 30-06 length

quote:

Originally posted by analog_peninsula:
Canuck: it was meant in jest. Heck, I was one of the first to bite.



Besides, methinks you underestimate your chain-yanking ability.

It was all taken in good humour, and my reply was in-kind.

Thanks for the compliment on my chain-yanking skills, but it is outside of my natural style. I can see I may have trouble convincing anyone of that now though.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

What a conundrum! If you own an old time favourite, you are afraid that a new cartridge will come along and make it obsolete. If you own a new cartridge, you are afraid that it won't catch on and it will become obsolete.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,

my wildcatting efforts (read 1988-2000 Precision Shoot9ing Magazine for a partial review) are all about worthwhile velocity increases or ridding the world of belts. I know we is having fun here, but the bait is too tasty to resist and the hook is hidden.

My idea of worthwhile wildcats include a 22-284, a 22-378Wby Imp (that was a ninety day fit of madness), a 6MMedusa (9,3x64B necked down and blown out...sort-of a 2 1/2" long 6-284) 257 Banshee (6,5x68 Shuler necked down and blown out), 475-70 (cylindrical 45-70 case in a Siamese Mauser, a 375 maximum Dan Wesson bored to 44 magnum and cut down 30-40 Krag cases cut cylinder length for shot cartridges or to 1.610" for 320gr hard cast bullets.
Converted a S&W K22 Magnum to 25 Hornet, that was fun. The only reason for the 510KX was do replicate the 510Wells Express with out that stupid, irritating belt. The 550 and 475 Gibbs...someone I thought was a friend gave me 100 505 Gibbs cylindrical cases...and another friend loaned me his 505 Gibbs to play with with the proviso that I give him some fire-formed brass when I was done. That was documented here a year ago. Oh,yeah, I also did a 25BR about eighteen years ago...another case of tilting at windmills...went after the 6PPC...utter failure...those guys don't want to experiment...they're just a bunch of trigger pullers. Last count, I have thirty-six reamers here; including a 50-110 Win.

You got me man...Chieu Hoi!

Rich
DRSS

isn't it interesting that some of the biggest rifle makers and ammunition makers plus hundreds if not thousands of wildcat experts have been trying since about 1912 to come up with something really better than the 375 h & h.

and their efforts have ALL failed miserably.

the latest rage of trying to get magnum performance out of standard length actions was started by winchester with their miserable 458

why would they foist this off on the public when they had a perfectly good 375 magnum length action in their line of products?

either to have something "new" to sell or because the accountants said they could save 25 cents per rifle.

well they got what they deserved -out of business and good riddance !

the latest "new" offering is from tc in their new 30 cal tc cartridge that is available in two bullet weights ..... all of 15 grains apart.
wow, isn't that significant ! and loaded with a secret powder not sold to the public so you'll never be able to duplicate results that the factory ammo gets.

why anyone would buy such a caliber beats me when a 300 win mag will far outdo it in a wide range of bullet weights - not just two.

maybe tc should have stuck to making bb guns or muzzleloaders or whatever it was they made before they deciced to get into the rifle business with hornaday.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:


the h+h is overtapered imho.
keep the same shoulder angle and position but take out 40 thou taper and you will still have 25 thou taper and be perfect!

still plenty of taper, slick feeding and get another 50 fps and still use factory ammo.

Seems like a lot of trouble to gain 50 fps, that isn't needed anyway!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:


the h+h is overtapered imho.
keep the same shoulder angle and position but take out 40 thou taper and you will still have 25 thou taper and be perfect!

still plenty of taper, slick feeding and get another 50 fps and still use factory ammo.

Seems like a lot of trouble to gain 50 fps, that isn't needed anyway!

its a way t get 375 weatherby performance without the silly shoulder radius and better feeding with the world wide ammo availability

I hope the 375H&H days are not numbered.
March of 2006 I bought my first bolt action high powered rifle.
After years of deliberation on makes and models and calbers plus recent advent of short magnums I deceided that the 375H&H would be my caliber of choice, chambered in a Model 70 Winchester.
With everyone going short I decided to go long.
Hopefully there is a big installed base of 375H&H owners to keep me in bass for a few decades.

I lement the passing of the various winchester firearms but if the M70 it is a good as they say maybe some day they will be made again somewhere in the world.

I saw no mention of the 375 H&H Ackley Improved, especially for those that seem concerned anout "case taper". Plus, with a good barrel, you would be looking at at a good 200-300 fps. velocity gain - depending on bullet weight. i shoot a 375 H&H Ackley Improved in a pre-64 Winchester and love every minute of it....

D-A

quote:

Originally posted by Deer_Assasin:
I saw no mention of the 375 H&H Ackley Improved, especially for those that seem concerned anout "case taper". Plus, with a good barrel, you would be looking at at a good 200-300 fps. velocity gain - depending on bullet weight. i shoot a 375 H&H Ackley Improved in a pre-64 Winchester and love every minute of it....

D-A

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 375 H&H, that changing the case shape will make better! There isn't a cartridge in existance that is easier to make feed in any type action! Top this off with the fact that no animal will be able to tell the difference in the extra 100 fps, over the 2550 fps from a 375H&H with a 300 gr bullet! Nobody needs to worry about the 375 H&H going away, it ain't going anyplace, but to hunting camps all over the world!

QUOTE FROM MACD37 - There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 375 H&H, that changing the case shape will make better! There isn't a cartridge in existance that is easier to make feed in any type action! Top this off with the fact that no animal will be able to tell the difference in the extra 100 fps, over the 2550 fps from a 375H&H with a 300 gr bullet! Nobody needs to worry about the 375 H&H going away, it ain't going anyplace, but to hunting camps all over the world!


I fully agree with you 100%! Even in standard form, I feel that the 375 H&H is the one gun that can do it all - from pronghorn antelope to elk to the biggest bears and anything in Africa that might want to eat or stomp you...

Here is a rifle that I finished a couple months ago that is chambered for none other than the good old classic - 375 H&H....

MacD37,

thanks for making my point that we don't need the 375 Ruger. Perception is the deal, and history. If an old model 70 is the same action in 22 Hornet or 375, why does/did the Hornet cost half as much? Because Winchester could trade on the incredible cost of a british-made 300 or 375H&H and charge more.

I went thru one of the major arms factories several years ago while they were turning out M-16's and AR-15's at the same time, on the same lines. I asked why the civilian AR cost four times as much as the M16 when they were almost identical. The answer after a lot of double-talk: because we have to sell the M16 to the fedguv on a bid/competition basis, and the winning bid we submitted was $216 per. The regular folks out there that want to play "Rambo" or compete in HiPower have no options.

Twenty-five years later we do, and guess what? The government is still buying theirs for less that $285 per, and civilians are being hit to the tune of $700 plus built by the same factory.

It is the same with the 375-length rifles. Ruger, et al, see the big bores as their premium line, and they just HAVE TO charge a lot more. They are also using the line that demand is low, so they have to amortize the tooling quicker. Which is a crock! If Ruger chose to build a "basic" RSM, it wouldn't cost more tham about 50-cents more than a standard in 223. I exaggerate...but, to make a point. They make all their own barrels, and they don't pay the barrel makers anymore to make bigger holes in barrel blanks. They don't pay the foundry guys anymore to cast RSM actions than regular ones. They don't pay (much) more for the walnut stock blanks. They don't pay the stockers anymore to final shape and fit the stock to the barrelled action than if they are making 223's or 7mags than they do to make the 375H&H or Lott.

There's about ten-cents more steel, and about another dollar at most in the components. So, are they less careful or using lesser quality components with lesser calibers, or is the management just using this excuse to put the screws to those who choose to buy one?

Hint: the answer only requires a fourth-grade education.

Rich
DRSS

Deer-Assasin,

how much more did you have to charge the guy for the 375 over a standard caliber/action?

Rich
DRSS

I don't understand the drive to re-do the tried and true. Why don't the manufacturers get with the program and make a rail gun? A 20 cal , 50 gr projo at 12,000 fps would probably take the place of my venearable 375 H&H. Would have to study the terminal ballistics before I buy but I'm thinking it might be the ticket - no recoil and a real elephant/tank thumper fired from the shoulder. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Rich,

I did NOT charge more as I consider the 375 H&H to be "standard"....

D-A

quote:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 375 H&H, that changing the case shape will make better! There isn't a cartridge in existance that is easier to make feed in any type action! Top this off with the fact that no animal will be able to tell the difference in the extra 100 fps, over the 2550 fps from a 375H&H with a 300 gr bullet! Nobody needs to worry about the 375 H&H going away, it ain't going anyplace, but to hunting camps all over the world!

the feeding of the blown out taper with the same shoulder angle will be virtualy the same.

and get lower preasure not necessarily more speed...i like the idea of pushing the 350's faster than the unimproved though...

quote:

Top this off with the fact that no animal will be able to tell the difference in the extra 100 fps, over the 2550 fps from a 375H&H with a 300 gr bullet!

Actually it would probably be a mistake to make your 300 gr .375 bullet go faster than 2550. 2500 fps is the magic velocity for killing dangerous game with a 300 gr .375 bullet according to the people I trust and my experience!

quote:

thanks for making my point that we don't need the 375 Ruger.

No, we don't *NEED* the 375 Ruger. We got by fine without it for many years, so clearly we do not NEED it.

It is simply another OPTION, for some that feel that it's features are desirable to them.

Some people like chocolate ice cream. SOme people like vanilla. And some people like other flavours as well.

One solution (in this case, a cartridge) doesn't necessarily work for all people.



PS Rifle makers business is selling rifles.

Gatehouse is right. If all we had was the 30-06, the 375 H&H and the 470NE, the rifle business would have died 50 years ago. Look at all the fun we're having, and there is ALWAYS another gun and cartridge to try.

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:
Gatehouse is right. If all we had was the 30-06, the 375 H&H and the 470NE, the rifle business would have died 50 years ago. Look at all the fun we're having, and there is ALWAYS another gun and cartridge to try.

what, no 6.5's

p.s. 500ne for me.

the 470 is for those who cant decide between the 450 and 500

I was going to rebarrel my 375 to 458 Lott.

All this has made me decide not to, and rather shoot the 250 rounds of 375 I have laying around...

Then just buy a 458 Lott...

Dr GS

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:
Gatehouse is right. If all we had was the 30-06, the 375 H&H and the 470NE, the rifle business would have died 50 years ago. Look at all the fun we're having, and there is ALWAYS another gun and cartridge to try.

what, no 6.5's

p.s. 500ne for me.

the 470 is for those who cant decide between the 450 and 500

I casually swim past the bait, cleverly pretending not to notice.

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:
Gatehouse is right. If all we had was the 30-06, the 375 H&H and the 470NE, the rifle business would have died 50 years ago. Look at all the fun we're having, and there is ALWAYS another gun and cartridge to try.

what, no 6.5's

p.s. 500ne for me.

the 470 is for those who cant decide between the 450 and 500

I casually swim past the bait, cleverly pretending not to notice.

damn... next time i will use power bait