OK AR big bore shooters,

I have an interesting dilemma on my hands. I'm off to Africa next year (Sept) and will be going after my usual stuff (Buff, Buff, Buff)

That said, I'm going with Lever Guns, 1895s to be exact. (spare me the angst - LOL).

I'm deliberating between the .35 and .405

Thoughts???

I'd go with the .405 just because it is associated with Africa.

I have heard of an 1895 chambered for 9.3x62.
There is also the 411 Hawk by Zhat, its close to 450/400 ballistics with the same bullets.

Cheers, John

Jeff,
Jorge is taking his 1895 .405 to Africa for buff next year and he has worked up some dandy loads for that hunt. He will likely be along soon to comment.

Go with the .405. If you use every trick in the book with respect to cramming as much H414 powder as possible into the .405 win case including loading to max Mag length minus 0.010 and using a brass borerider solid of 400grs, you can hit 2100fps at safe working pressures of 50Kpsi or so. The borerider will give you an easy 100fps over a traditional bullet design and keep the pressures down too. That aught to be just fine for Buff.

400 grain bullets would be best, but I understand that the magazine length is the limiting factor in terms of getting enough velocity out of them.

I don't know if it's possible or practical to lengthen the magazine's front to back dimension.

Edited to Add: Just saw Rob's post above. Good to know it's possible to get 400 grains to 2,100 fps in an as-is rifle.

What Rob says sounds very plausible, as I have achieved 2050 fps with 400 grain .410 Hornady DGS bullets with N133. This was done before I had the chamber lengthened so I could seat the 400 grain .411 Woodleighs out to their crimping groove. The Hornadys were just for practice until my Woodleigh softs and solids arrived.

There have been many buffs taken the .405 shooting 300 grain bullets at factory velocity of 2250 fps, so with proper bullets , you can load up either 300 , 330, or 400 grain bullets for your hunt.

You could of course, choose to have Grizzly cartridge load some ammo with the brass bullets such as referenced by Rob and forego the handloading effort.

I lengthened the throat of a TC Encore barrel so that I could load 410 gr Woodleighs out .25 inches. I used a Corbin cannelure tool to add a second cannelure to the bullet for crimping. This set up easily hit 2150 FPS with H414.
The mag length is the problem with the 1895 and limits the amount of powder available. No good way to open up the box and get it to feed without a huge amount of work either. I even made some boreriders with a carbide insert in the front meplat to get 400gr bullets as short as possible and maximize powder capacity while still staying within the pressure limitations of the action. I know some guys have pushed 1895's into the 65KPSI range and no Kabooms. However I wonder how loose those guns will get with a steady diet of those loads. Frankly if you can get 2050fps with a 400gr solid, no buff will know the difference with a well placed shot. -Rob

Good info guys...BUT...

Why not the 35 Win. hopp'd-up with 250gr. bullets...wouldn't this get us more velocity (around 24-2500), more foot pound energy and better penetration and range performance than the .405?

I dare say a .410" 300 grain BBW #13 brass solid at 2,300 designed with a .5" tip to crimp would be pretty sweet. CEB could make them custom order but the order would have to be a big one.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Good info guys...BUT...

Why not the 35 Win. hopp'd-up with 250gr. bullets...wouldn't this get us more velocity (around 24-2500), more foot pound energy and better penetration and range performance than the .405?

Jeff, the .35 Win. is too small for buffalo - for my tastes, anyway - and besides that, and more troublesome, even if you disagree with me, it's too small under applicable minimum DG caliber laws in some jurisdictions.

Jeff,
Do you already have both the 1895 .35 and .405 rifles? If yes, great, just put a good recoil pad and peep sight on the .405 and don't look back.

If not, I can point you to an unfired Miroku/ Winchester Deluxe in .405 WCF that could make you a very stylish as well as deadly buff slayer.

A Turnbull 1886 in 475 would do the trick as well, if you needed an excuse for a new rifle. The velocities are about 2190 for a 400 gr. bullet.

Guns are in-house!

Thanks though

If the first shot is right, then expect them to run about 100 yards and die with either..I have shot buffalo witht he 8x57 and milsurp ammo and they ran 100 yards or so and died, same with the 7x57 and some of the lighter big bores. The only problem I see is if they happen to run your way, then you last thought will be Why didn't I try the 600 N.E.!

Looks like CEB is making a 325 grain Raptor in 410. If you are hunting DG with the 405 win this should be at the top of the list.

Jeff:

If you aim is to use the .405 then there is lots of good advice above. However, is you aim is to simply take a buff with a lever gun then I would like to make another suggestion. Do yourself a favor and pick up a Browning BLR takedown in 450 Marlin. They are not expensive. Load it up with a 400 grain Woodleigh Hydros in the tube and three of Michael's BBW #13s in the magazine. Run them about 1850 with some Accurate 1680 (I have data for you) and you'll be good to go.

I don't know about the H414 powder someone suggested above, but I know the 405 Win will get 400gr bullets up to 2050 fps with a heavily compressed charge of H4895.