The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Reloading data for 235 Raptor ER & Barnes TSX - 375 H&HGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I'm going to try to find a load for my 375 H&H (Model 70) with the CEB 235 Raptor ER. The CEB site says to use the data for similar weight bullets and these are the loads that I could find with the powders that I have on hand: 235 Grain Bullet........Starting........Max..........Probable Powder....................Grains..........Grains.......Velocity IMR 4064...................63.............70...........2949 H BLC-2.....................80.............85...........2964 H 4895......................69.............74...........2895 Reloader 15................................78...........2920 The gun shoots great with almost every load that I've tried. It loves IMR 4064 with the 300 grain TSX, Reloader 15 with the 300 grain Barnes banded solids and IMR 4350 with the 260 grain Partition. So I'm just looking for any hints on which one to start with to save some bullets and time. Thanks for any information Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | ||
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I've not worked with that bullet in my M70 .375, but I do have a load for the 250gr North Fork bonded core with H4895. I use 72gr and get about 2830fps, the M70 loves that load, very accurate. As to whether 69gr would be safe to start with would be only a guess. Not sure how long that bullet is and therefore how much case capacity you'll have versus my 250gr NF load. Perhaps start a couple grains lower, working up in 0.5gr increments with just two bullets at each load point to save bullets. Not sure if that helps or not, but best of luck with it, I'd like to hear how it works out. | |||
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On the advice of the people at CEB, I very happily used CEB 300 gr solids with 68 grs of IMR 4064 and the CEB 275 Non Con with 69.0 gr of IMR 4064 in my .375 H&H on a cape buffalo hunt in 2013. I am not sure how that translates to your lighter bullets, but I have called CEB several times with questions and they could not have been more helpful. In my rifle, the 4064 and the CEB's were very accurate. | |||
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Frank, My load with the 235TSX was 76gr of RL15. That is a very mild load but it gave me 2900fps ave which was all I was looking for. The Barnes manual list loads up to about 78gr IIRC and over 3000fps. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I started at 78 gr of RL-15 and ended up at 80 gr @ 2925fps. This is using the 235 Raptor ER. The rifle bbl is 20". Accuracy was right at 1 MOA @ 100yds. LX | |||
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Thanks guys, I'll try the RL-15 first. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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With RL 15 I started at 71 gr and worked up to 75 gr. The 74 and 75 gr gave the best accuracy, but the were HEAVILY compressed. Even with a heavy crimp, the bullets oozed out of the case on 1/2 the cartridges far enough they wouldn't fit in the magazine. I can't imagine how you could get more than 75 gr of RL 15 in and still seat deep enough to fit in a M70 magazine. I am trying IMR 4064 now, it seems to have a max charge that uses a little less capacity than RL 15. Use enough gun... Shoot 'till it's dead, especially if it bites. | |||
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In my 375 Ruger I use 82,5 grs Norma 203B (same as Rel-15) and get 1/2" groups and 3206 fps vel (average) in a 20" barrel... AWESOME !! Might be hot though... But I have reloaded the brass with this load for 6 reloads now (and no neck annealing) - still good and no loose primer pockets.. | |||
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I used the same 27" drop tube I used for my 600OK loads. 75gr RL-15, 215 mag match primer OAL with Tipped 230gr Raptors is 3.550 inches. Functions(feeds)flawlessly in mod 70. Hope this helps. I really like that load too! Andy We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
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with that load you could hunt anything on the planet, except maybe hippo and elephant. duiker, tommy, buffalo would all be good to go, at any distance. Eland at 400 yards would be 'meat on table' (assuming favorable wind and a stable shooting rest). +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Here's what I loaded up this morning: The first load is a 235 grain Barnes TSX with 84 grains of BLC-(2). The second is the 235 grain Cutting Edge Raptor Extended Range Bullet with 76 grains of Reloader 15. The third is a 235 grain Barnes TSX with 73 grains of H4895. The fourth is a 223 round with a 36 grain Barnes Varmint Grenade  Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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IMR 4451 is a new powder that is soon to be available. It is showing around a 90 fps increase in the 375 Ruger. You might want to try it out and see what happens. | |||
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I was just asked by a powder distributor to do some testing for them on the new IMR4166 powder but I lacked the time to do it so I turned it down. What's with all the new powders coming out now? Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Frank, There is a discussion on that subject in the Reloading forum. Russ Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I thought that I'd let you know how the testing went. I tried two different bullets with three different powders. The first load was the Barnes 235 grain TSX with 83, 84, and 85 grains of BL-c(2). The top row in the first picture. Three shot groups at 100 yards were 1.8", 0.7" and 1.2" respectively.  Then I shot the 235 grain CEB Raptor Ext. Range bullet with changes of 75, 76 and 77 grains of Reloader 15. They went into groups of 1.5", 0.3" and .75" respectively.  Then I shot the 235 grain Barnes 235 grain TSX with charges of 72, 73 and 74 grains of H4895 which went into groups of 1.6", 0.7" and 1.8" respectively.  None of the loads had any signs of excess pressure and the so I think that I can safely go up in charge weights. The CEB Raptors with the Reloader 15 powder show a lot of potential. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Frank, I just got some of the 230gr Raptors to load in my 375 H&H. Did you crimp any of the loads you tried? I started with 74gr and went up 1gr increments to 77gr for my first outing with them. I did not crimp these and the OAL is 3.63". They seemed to work just fine thru the magazine of my Win 70 action. | |||
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Ed, I didn't crimp any of them. I normally use the Lee Factory crimp die on my 270 and 300 grain loads but on these I'm not going to try it until after I settle on a load. I had to seat the 235 grain Raptor ERs to cover the highest groove to get them to fit my Model 70's magazine with the plastic tips installed. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Why do the folks at CEB put a 1:12 twist limit on this light bullet when there is no limit on their heavier offerings The same applies to their 338 offerings. The lightest has a 1:9.5 or faster limit and the heavier 338"s none ? | |||
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The .375/235-grain CEB Raptor is pretty long with the tip installed and needs that 1:12" Twist, or faster, methinks. Also, it may be too long for magazine box when loaded for best accuracy fit in throat. The Ruger No.1 was used by CEB to develop some great loads used out to 600 yards with that bullet, in its earliest configuration of tip, IIRC. That rifle has a 1:12" twist, and the bullets can be seated longer than allowable in the M70 magazine box. Ruger No.1 is ideal for accuracy with that bullet methinks.  | |||
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I shot these groups today using the 230gr Raptors and RL15. The smallest group was .335" and the largest was .847". Since I started with a new canister of RL15, I started at 73gr and went up to 77grs. At 77grs, the primers started to flatten a little.  | |||
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Nice shooting Ed. I'm not seeing any primer flattening at 77 grains of R-15. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Frank, the 375H&H that I am shooting was rebarreled with a Benchmark barrel and the chamber was cut with a minimum spec reamer. It will generally show pressure before my other Mod70 that is all factory. At 77gr of RL15, I was just starting to see some flattening but the edges of the primers are still rounded. With this lot of RL15, I could probably go to 78gr without major pressure signs. | |||
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Went out and shot some more test loads today. The first group is three 235 grain Raptors with 78 grains of Reloader 15. The hole on the left is a double. The second group is the 235 grain Barnes TSX with the same 78 grains of R-15.  The first group here is the 235 grain Barnes TSX with 75 grains of H4895 The middle group is the 235 grain Raptor with 75 grains of H4895 The right hand group is the 235 grain Raptor with 77.5 grains of Reloader 15  Unfortunately my chronograph (Pact model 1 that I bought in the mid 80s) has died so I didn't get any velocity data. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Tag. Great info here, gents! | |||
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Frank, I noticed you went up in powder charge with your second testing. Are you going to re-try the 76gr RL-15 charge with the ER Raptors to determine if the that's a sweet spot combo for your rifle? Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Jim, I'm trying to get 2950 to 3000 fps with the 235 grain loads so I'm creeping up on the charge weights. I shot more R-15 loads this weekend at 77.8, 78 and 78.2 grains but stupidly left the target hanging on the back board when I left the range. The 78 g and 78.2 g loads both shot into < 1" so I'm going to try 78.5 grains. I just ordered a new chronograph that is supposed to be delivered next Tuesday so once I get the velocity data I'll know what load that I want to use. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Thanks Frank - makes perfect sense... Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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I shot several groups today with the 230gr ESP Raptors (235gr with tips). 76.5gr of RL15 2973fps ES 9 77gr of RL15 2994fps ES 16 77.5gr of RL15 3018fps ES 17 78gr of RL15 3049fps ES 12 (best group .287")  | |||
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Nice shooting. And 4700+ftlbs, to boot. We'll see if my wife likes the load, next year. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Them 375 ESP raptors have posted some great groups. Looks like you found a good load. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I just chronographed the latest loads: 78.2 grains of R15 pushes the 235 grain Raptor at 2901 fps 78.5 grains of R15 gives 2946 fps. No signs of pressure at all. Round primers, no shiny spots on the casehead from the ejector slot, cases fall out of the chamber. etc. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Frank, What barrel length are you shooting? | |||
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What is the bc of the 235 Non Cons with the tips in place. ? Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Ed, It's a Winchester Model 70 (New Haven) with the factory 24" barrel.
CEB says .337 (G1) and the picture shows the tip in place. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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The velocities that I posted above were shot out of a Win70 with a 26" barrel. My other Win70 in 375H&H has a 22" barrel but I have not tried any Raptors in that rifle yet. RL15 can be volatile from lot to lot so that may also be part of the velocity difference. The 230gr ESP Raptors weight 235gr with the tips. | |||
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Oh man..greased lightning!. May I ought to try them in the.378Wea.  DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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I decided to shoot the 235 Grain Barnes TSX with the Reloader 15 powder and using the Barnes manual. Barnes lists a max load of 80.5 grains at 3060 ps. The upper left load is 79 grains of R-15, 2894 fps average, Extreme spread of 6 fps and grouped under 1.5" The upper right load is 79.5 grains averaging 2911 fps an extreme spread of 7 fps, grouping at .75" The bottom left load is 80 grains at 2915 fps with an extreme spread of 16 fps and went into 1". I don't think that the additional 0.5 grains of powder is going to get me the additional 145 fps that Barnes claims.  Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Frank, Just curious, why are you trying to get 3000fps? Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I'm going to hunt Nyala next year and most of the outfits offering free range (low fence) hunting say to be ready to shoot out to 300 yards or more. With a 2.6" high zero at 100 yards the 300 grain bullets that I normally shoot are 11" low at 300, if I can get the 235s up near 3,000 fps, with a 1.8" zero at 100 yards the drop is 8.1". I'm also an OCD type that has to have everything just so. It's a confidence thing with me, I'm a much better shooter if I know that the load is perfect. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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What you want is the most accurate velocity node. You also need a good BC for a 300 yard shot. You should check out the 250TTSX bullet. Even at a full-power yet modest 2850fps and a 2" zero it will be under 7" at 300 yards. What's more, the drift will be under 8-inches in a 10mph crosswind. That 250TTSX at 2850fps would be my 300-yard hunting load with a 375H&H, +/-50fps depending on accuracy nodes and the particular rifle. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Reloading data for 235 Raptor ER & Barnes TSX - 375 H&H
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