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Switch-Barrel 400 Bateleur Rifle: Finally a .408 Alternative!!! Login/Join
 
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Most practical, a Rigby-sized MRC Model 1999 stainless,
or a CZ 550 Magnum Chromoly action.
The latter has the benefit of available B&C/CZ "Kevlar" stock.
But even a standard M98 with a lot of work and Wiebe bottom metal will do.
Or, a Winchester M70 with RUM box and Sunny Hill drop floor plate with McMillan drop belly stock available for it, does nicely too.

I actually have 7 of these 8 rifle chamberings, have not done the .475 yet, need to add the 9th, a .416/.338 Lapua Magnum?







The .510-caliber 500 Bateleur above is shown with a Barnes 647-grain plinker and COL of exactly 4.000".
This fits inside the box of a MRC PH action, for magazine-fed repeater function.

Through .475-caliber, the original shoulder diameter of the .338LM is maintained.
For the .500-caliber (12.7x68 aka 49-10) and .510-caliber (500 Bateleur) wildcats, the shoulder had to be blown out to greater diameter,
but the base to shoulder distance and shoulder angle are the same as the .338LM.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The Bateleur Lapua Line (BLL)) is the latest nomenclature, all have been "Released to the Gun Trade." No royalties need be paid to me. hilbily
But I cannot vouch for the .375 Tornado people of Germany, as they claim a copyright on the use of "Tornado" as applied to any weapon or weapon system.
The 9.5x70mm Tornado Magnum is simply a .375/.338 Lapua Magnum.
I dreamed that one up on my own before I ever heard of them. hilbily

From the Lapua Shooting and Reloading Manual:



Lapua started their production of the .338 Lapua Magnum in Finland, introduced in 1987.
Then they did the 300 Lapua Magnum (also 1987 introduction) which involved only necking down and changing the shoulder angle to 25 degrees for the 300.
If it had retained the 20-degree shoulder angle of the .338 LM it would have had too short a neck.

My first thoughts of wildcatting the .338LM was about 1998, and it was the idea of a .416/.338LM, but I decided it was too lame an idea at the time,
to take the .338LM part way back to where it started as a .416 Rigby. hilbily

It interests me now. There is a need to fill in a big gap in the Bateleur Lapua Line. Just like this smiley needs a partial denture: hilbily

300 Lapua Magnum: 1987
.338 Lapua Magnum: 1987
.375 Bateleur: 2005 (aka German 9.5 mm Tornado 2002)
.395 Bateleur: 2007 (aka 398 Lapua Magnum)
.416 Bateleur: 20XX
.458 Bateleur: 2003
.475 Bateleur: 20XX
490 Bateleur: 2010 (aka 12.7x68 or 49-10)
500 Bateleur: 2012
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Here is another gift to the Gun Trade:

CZ started off making their .505 Gibbs rifle with a rubber bumper inside the front of the sheetmetal box. Roll Eyes
Why not replace that with a piece of steel about 0.2" thick instead of a piece of rubber?

The top edge of that steel plate could be precisely shaped to blend into the feed ramp of the action and thus extend the feed ramp down into the box.
This will overcome the problem of wide meplat FN solids not being able to start up the feed ramp from the box.
It will shorten the inside-box length from +3.8" to +3.6".
More than adequate for the entire Bateleur Lapua Line of cartridges. Really long loads can still be single-loaded off the top of the box.

You can see here how even a pointy GSC HV bullet butts up against the bottom of the feed ramp of what used to be a 30-06 FN Mauser M98,
but is now a 500 Bateleur, with 3.501" inside-box length Wiebe bottom metal.
There is a lot of steel yet to be removed to widen the feed trough for this little piggy:







 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The Bateleur Lapua Rifle:

Slick barreled.
Nine different barrels.
Screw off one barrel and screw on another.
If it feeds a 500 Bateleur or 490 Bateleur,
then all the others should feed slicker than greased owl poop.
The 500 Bateleur Standard M98 Mauser in progress is shown above.
Here are some more potential candidates for barrel switching:

500 Bateleur, Weatherby Mark V:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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"490 Bateleur" BRNO ZKK 602:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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"490 Bateleur" Winchester M70:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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".458 Bateleur" CZ 550 Magnum:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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.395 Bateleur
.375 Bateleur
CZ 550 Magnums:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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".308 Bateleur" is a basic CZ 550 Magnum rebarrel.
It was chambered with a reamer from Dave Kiff that incorporates a latest CIP spec 300 Weatherby throat, so it is not just a "300 Lapua Magnum": hilbily



I also have a basic CZ 550 Magnum with a 23" barrel for .338 Lapua Magnum.
But it has the standard .338 LM throat,
so I have no excuse to call it a .338 Bateleur,
Hence the "Bateleur Lapua Line" nomenclature,
for a switch-barrel rifle with nine barrels.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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A ".416 Bateleur" and a ".475 Bateleur" are desperately needed now to fill the gaps in the "Bateleur Lapua Line" of switch-barrel rifles.
One rifle, nine barrels.
Nine posts talking to myself: That is a personal record. hilbily

I blame capoward for this idea ... Jim, see what you have done?
At least I have filled the gaps, and am a legend in my own mind.
Big Grin

Lessee now, which would make the best switch-barrel:
MRC M1999, CZ 550 Magnum/BRNO ZKK 602, Mauser M98, Winchester M70, or Weatherby Mark V ... bewildered

A .416 Bateleur with a .475 Bateleur switch-barrel to start with ... dancing

Then there is the "Buffalo Rigby Line" of cartridges (BLR) started by Mr. Rigby in 1911,
and continued by Dave Estergaard about 1997 with the 470 Mbogo:

The Big Five:

500 Mbogo
470 Mbogo
404 Rigby Improved Plus
.416 Rigby
.395 Tatanka animal

As I was!
Back to the Bateleur Lapua Line!


 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Hi RIP

Based on the description of “switch barrel” and “One rifle, nine barrels”, I was expecting to see literally one rifle, with barrels of the same bolt face, but different calibres being swapped on / off. From the photo essay, you appear to be building a rifle per calibre. While there is nothing wrong with that endeavour, I dont quite see where the switch barrel/one rifle comes in – unless you are proposing that your work is the framework for others to build their one rifle off?
 
Posts: 426 | Location: Australia | Registered: 03 September 2006Reply With Quote
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Hi Bwana_500,

The switch-barrel mechanism may be a barrel vise and an action wrench.
I did not start out with a switch-barrel in mind.
Just now got the idea. coffee
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
300 Lapua Magnum: 1987
.338 Lapua Magnum: 1987
.375 Bateleur: 2005 (aka German 9.5 mm Tornado 2002)
.395 Bateleur: 2007 (aka 398 Lapua Magnum)
.416 Bateleur: 20XX
.458 Bateleur: 2003
.475 Bateleur: 20XX
490 Bateleur: 2010 (aka 12.7x68 or 49-10)
500 Bateleur: 2012
Ron,

You definitely have a good conversation going… I did notice with your listing that you have inconsistencies in your naming convention - specifically 4 Bateleurs using groove diameter and 2 Bateleurs using bore diameter. Shouldn’t they all be named using the same specification?


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4954 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I have a true switch barrel on a lowly Rem700 action. It has a .257 wby, 300 wby, .450 Ackley and a .338 Rum barrel. I blueprinted the action and installed a sako extractor. The barrels were all threaded to the same receiver spec and set up to headspace with the barrels just "hand tight". All the barrels have exactly the same profile and fit into a McMillan stock. It shoots 0.5 inches at 200 yrds in .338 RUM. I have 4 scopes for it one in each caliber and it repeats barrel changes within a inch every time.-Rob


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!
 
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Ron,

I just remembered to ask...

Are you planning to use Lapua mfg/brand formed 338 LM brass or Jamison brand 338 LM cylinder brass for your .416 Bateleur?

If using Lapua mfg/brand formed 338 LM brass are you just going to neck up or fire form the .416 Bateleur brass?

I'm sure you've already tumbled to the reason for my questions but others my not so I’ll post the rational for my question. Our earlier forming of the 49-10 (490 Bateleur) brass using Lapua mfg/brand formed 338 LM brass revealed that the neck diameter at the case mouth is less than the neck diameter of the shoulder/neck junction – same as with the Lapua mfg/brand formed 338 LM brass. But when forming the 500 Bateleur cases using the Jamison brand 338 LM cylinder brass resulted in the same neck diameter at the case mouth and the shoulder/neck junction – as well as the neck wall thickness being 0.0015” thinner; i.e., a gross wall thickness of 0.024” for Jamison brand vs. 0.027” for Lapua mfg/brand.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4954 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by capoward:

… I did notice with your listing that you have inconsistencies in your naming convention - specifically 4 Bateleurs using groove diameter and 2 Bateleurs using bore diameter. Shouldn’t they all be named using the same specification?


Jim,
You are sounding more like Mr. Spock than Captain Kirk. Who says this has to be logical?

But I might just make it simpler for now:

300 Bateleur (.308/.338 Lapua Magnum Bateleur)
400 Bateleur (.408/.338 Lapua Magnum Bateleur)
500 Bateleur (.510/.338 Lapua Magnum Bateleur)

Only 3 Bateleurs, all named by true bore size.
That eliminates some redundancy.

I need a .408 more than I need another .416. Cool
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I have a true switch barrel on a lowly Rem700 action. It has a .257 wby, 300 wby, .450 Ackley and a .338 Rum barrel. I blueprinted the action and installed a sako extractor. The barrels were all threaded to the same receiver spec and set up to headspace with the barrels just "hand tight". All the barrels have exactly the same profile and fit into a McMillan stock. It shoots 0.5 inches at 200 yrds in .338 RUM. I have 4 scopes for it one in each caliber and it repeats barrel changes within a inch every time.-Rob


3 hand-tight barrels on a CZ, MRC, Winchester, or Mauser:
.300, .400 and .500-bored barrels with .308, .408, and .510-groove diameter.

What caliber has a true .200"-bore for that inevitable "200 Bateleur?" tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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How about blowing out some taper for a 416 Rigby capacity but on the Lapua case?
Use 416 Rigby load data. Shoot high BC bullets from the MRC PH mag for a 4 shot repeater.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Just joking about the 200 Bateleur.
Not joking about a 400 Bateleur,
at least no more than that the need for any wildcat nowadays
is just for hobby fun.
Do note that a .408-cal 400 Bateleur could magazine load the
GSC HV in a CZ or Dakota or MRC or true Magnum Mauser box.

boom stick,
I blow out the .338LM only for calibers bigger than .475.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Sizing all the .410-caliber and .411-caliber bullets down to .408 is no sweat, including .41-cal handgun bullets.
Easier than .416 to .411, and there are also quite a few ready-made .408-caliber bullets around. tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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You might like the 40 Newton then since I think the original bullet was the 408 bullet.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Not a big enough step up from the 400 Whelen.
The 1923 original ".400 Whelen" was a .409-caliber,
but I don't want to build one of those either. Wink
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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.408 on the .600Ok case? Overbore/0verkill?-Rob


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!
 
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001Reply With Quote
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A 64% scale belted 50 BMG to 408 or 416 based on the OK case could be a fun mag fed repeater project. A sporting/tactical cart for the CZ platform with 50 BMG trajectories. 15 LB gun?


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
.408 on the .600Ok case? Overbore/0verkill?-Rob


Sorry, Rob, I already have Jamison brass for .408 CT, and am going to have to stick with the 400 Underkill.
Nice battery though, 400 Underkill plus 600 Overkill. The perfect two-rifle safari combo. tu2

boom stick's "400 Overweight": Crew-served is not sporting. shame

The walnut PH stock with crossbolts is finally on the way.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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I'm thinking beltfed .408 overbore-overkill for those pesky pachyderms at long range! The perfect tool for those cross Zambezi river poaching expeditions! Where's my shrike and drill press?-Rob


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!
 
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Rob,
If you neck the 600 OK down to .408 and leave it wide at the shoulder and give it an acute shoulder angle like an Ackley what would you gain over the standard .408 CheyTac?
About 15 to 20 grains of extra water capacity?

Both the .408 CheyTac and .505 Gibbs taper from about .640" at the rim (.636" base/head) to 0.600" at the shoulder.

If you tapered the larger-based, belted 600 OK case (3.000" case length, and .656" diameter above the belt?) down to match the neck and shoulder dimensions of the .408 CheyTac (3.040"case length),
you would end up with smaller water capacity.

But, for the latter you could load the belted "400 Overbore Overkill" using a set of 600 Overkill dies and a modified (cut off at base) set of .408 CheyTac dies.
You could call it the "400 OB Overkill" but that sounds a bit like an "abortion."

"400 Obok" has a nice ring to it, almost as good as the .475 Bibamufu, or was that the .475 BIBAMOFO?
Well if it wasn't the latter, it should have been.
Mother's day is coming up.
The belted .408/600 Ovekill could become simply the 400 MOFO? Wink

I better stick with the standard .408 CheyTac as the "400 Underkill" light rifle express alternate to the 600 Overkill.

Hey! this is the 400 Bateleur thread, the pipsqueak of .408 alternatives.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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I like it .408 MoFo! Where is Homeland Security? I'll sell a few million of them. The fact there is no gun won't bother Big Sis Napolitano!


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!
 
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001Reply With Quote
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