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I have one of Ed's single shot 585 Hubel express it weight right at 11.5#. I put a new recoil pad on it and limited my shots now it's not that bad shooting 650gr at 2400fps. | |||
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patterning a shotgun can be brutal, even standing on sticks. I recall patterning a 3 1/2" Benelli my father wanted for coyotes with everything from #4 buck to turkey loads. 3"/3 1/2", various chokes, various shot sizes, various manufacturers. It was a long afternoon. | |||
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I suggest to anyone that before they comment on this thread to go go shoot that 12 magnum with a slug or buck shot of a bench rest for groups..then shoot the 416 the same, it seems pretty close to me..I just did it and won't do it again soon!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My .416 is a pussycat compared to a 12 gauge with a slug, or even heavy buck. But it fits me. | |||
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Jeff, I have to disagree on your 12 gauge assessment. He said 3" and 3.5" shells. I have shot relatively light weight 12 guages with 3.5" magnum ammo, pushing out 2 oz of shot. Shoot 10 rounds of that off a bench and see how much fun that is. I don't own any of the really big 50 calibers, but I do hunt with 416 Rigby, 404 Jeff, 458 Lott and 450 NE. A light (7 lbs) 12 gauge with 3.5" mags, is at least in the ballpark with my rifles. One morning in Canada on a goose hunt I HAD to shoot a light mossberg pump with 3.5" mag goose loads. By the end of the hunt, I was very selective in taking shots due to the pain in my tenderized shoulder. Now if you are talking 8 pound 12 gauge with 1 oz trap loads....that is a mild pussy cat in comparison. I can shoot a case of that in hunt, as I have done in Argentina, no problem. Go Duke!! | |||
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I have a remington custom rifle in 7mm rem - Alaskan Wilderness Rifle. The rifle is probably the most accurate rifle I have and I cannot for the life of me shoot it. The recoil is sharp and nasty. The gun is just evil. I have a 458 lott and 450-400 no issues. I have shot a 470 no issues. I have little desire to shoot anything bigger than 458 lott. But there is something about this 7mm remington that makes it terrible and painful to shoot. I bought a browning blr in 7 rem to convert to 375 ruger. Before I dropped it with the gunsmith I shot it and had no issues. So its not the calibre it the rifle. I need to get a new stock or sell the rifle. Mike | |||
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Find yourself a nice used .375 H&H in an Interarms Mark X. It's a pussycat to shoot. If you're looking for a double rifle, then look at a .450/400, also a pussycat. I'm not recoil sensitive, but a .500NE in a 10.5 lb gun will get your attention, but it's manageable, especially for 6-8 rounds. You can't go wrong with the .375 H&H. Best caliber of all time and more dangerous game has been taken with it than any other caliber. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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Mike call Remington and tell them and see if they'll send you a Rem XCR II stock for free. We have a Rem XCR II in 375 H&H that weighs 7.25 lbs with rings and a Leupold 2-7x scope (I weighed it on a postal scale). I was really hesitant to shoot it when I first got it. The XCR II stock soaks up recoil yet it is very accurate. I really don't understand it. I had a CZ 550 in 375 H&H that was almost 3 lbs heavier and the XCR II kicks less. It's worth a shot. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Well, others have stated some good advice. That being the case, I was in a similar boat before buying my first 375 and 416. No one I knew ever owned a caliber that big so it was pretty much impossible to shoot one before buying my own. I had gone up from 30-06 to 300 mag to 338 mag and found the 338 mag comfortable. I could comfortably shoot the 338 with a relaxed grip, just resting the forarm without gripping it. Then i bought my first 375, a CZ. The recoil was a small step up, but not too bad. If i shot it as relaxed as my 338 it would smack the cheek a little, but with a good grip on the rifle it was no problem. The recoil of the 375 is about like a 3" buckshot or slug. a little faster recoil, but about the same strength of recoil. I went to the 416 rigby next in a CZ and after getting very comfortable with the 375, the 416 was surprisingly mild. yes it was a small step up from the 375, but not bad and I was off and running no problem with the 416. I haven't shot 3.5" 12 gauge before, but I would guess since the 3" is about like the 375, that the 3.5" would be similar to the 416. If your completely comfortable with 3.5" shells, I don't think you'd have a problem with the 416. In fact, when I let people shoot my big bores, I tell them to handle it and shoot it like they are shooting a 12 gauge. Some tips as others have stated: -Feel confident that it really won't be that bad, and let it surprise you how it isn't really that bad. -Grip the forearm with your hand instead of just resting the rifle in your hand. It basically ads the weight of your arm to the rifle to help reduce recoil. -Don't put the butt of the rifle into your ball joint on your shoulder. move it in farther just a little onto your peck muscle and curve your shoulder more around the outside of the stock. -don't stock crawl. keep your cheek planted, but your head in a more upright position, at least until you get more familiar with the rifle. this may force your to move the butt more higher up in your should/peck pocket. -Shoot off hand until your get use to it and your fear is gone. Let your entire upper body roll with the recoil instead of trying hold a hard stance. The more you fight the recoil, the worse the recoil will feel. Shooting off a bench, sit in a more upright position. Then work to prone and you got it mastered. For me, recoil doesn't start to get painful until the 458 lott and even then i can shoot about 10 rounds before the recoil subtly starts to take its toll. With the 458 I have to think about every shot, with the 416 I don't have to but it still gets me every now and then when I get too lazy with it. The 375 now i can be completely lazy with. | |||
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Find JBM Ballistics on line for a recoil calculator. Including recoil velocity. I use and recommend EvoShield Shooters Shirt. The pad part molds permanently to fit your shoulder and spreads the force over a broader area. I find it far more effective than a PAST. EvoShield makes all sorts of protective gear for sports. Click on Outdoors on their site. | |||
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Stock configuration vs recoil: You tube, "Brian Shoots" and "Brian Shoots 2" Here are the two Youtube videos of shooting my 577NE (24g a.FH). I made the stock high and straght relative to the bore. (See how the scope is pretty high.) The rifle comes strait back with minimal muzzle rise. The load is mid-range for a 577 NE. 700 grain bullet at 1800 fps. Rifle weighs 14.5 lbs. Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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I have got a pile of rifles. I have pretty much everything from a 17 HMR to a 500 NE. The rifle that I have that will put a mark on my shoulder before any other is my 270. It doesn't kick the hardest or even close to the hardest but it will damn sure put a mark on my shoulder where my 500 NE with the same number of rounds will not. I have never figured that one out. | |||
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I had two big brothers that beat the living crap out of me up to the point they left home(good riddens) so when I became interested in big bore rifles years later I was already pre-conditioned for heavy recoil. | |||
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Well let's see, proper training in gun handling of big bores ( no your not born with this ability), a stock design that recoils straight back and doesn't climb, a effective muzzle brake, a wide butt stock design and a recoil pad that actually works, enough weight , scope with good eye relief or electronic sight. All combine to let me at least shoot stuff like the .600ok, 12 GaFH etc, generating more recoil than most will ever try even once. Get any of the above wrong and pain is the result! It's really not that hard! I've taught 100lb women to shoot .585 Nyatis and its remarkable to hear the " that wasn't so bad" comment from Them. Some of it is mindset too! When people want to learn to do something and are willing to listen,recoil issues just become part of good shooting. Not much more I can add to what's been said above. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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could I get a breif description of the firearm in the pictures? | |||
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The rifle in the "Brian Shoots" video: Made from a single shot Harrington and Richardson, Handi Rifle. It was rebarrelled by Ed Hubel to a "24 Guagw From Hell" which is a 577 Nitro Express 3 inch. Barrel is 27 inches long. I did the stock work. Load shoots a 700 grain cast bullet at 1800 fps. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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As Ray suggests above, bench shooting slugs through a choked, light twelve guage gives you a great perspective on recoil. I would rather shoot my heavy well stocked 577NE off the bench. I can assure you, however, that I won't either of the above off the bench very often! IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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let's agree to disgree opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I think the shotgun thing depends on the gun and the load. I have a Mossberg somethings or another. I would far rather shoot my 416 off the bench 5 times than pattern that Mossberg with 3.5'inch turkey loads. On the other hand, the same loads in my Benelli are a piece of cake. | |||
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3 inch slug load and clay target loads or pheasant loads are not in the same universe. Try it - shoot five 3" slugs through a choked shotgun. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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All these recoil posts are rediculous. You can mitigate recoil easily and if you don't guess what, it's your problem. We've told you what you need to do. Your the one who has to deal with recoil issues and the fixes are well know and work. Put on your big boy pants and deal with it! This tread is a waste of time! Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Mindset has a hell of a lot to do with it, no doubt. I remember in the mid 90's in Alaska, a guy showed up with a 375 H&H. He was terrified of the thing. I happened to have one of mine with me. We were both checking zero. I ended up checking the zero for him. I also pointed out that my oldest son, then 12, had just killed a Cape buffalo with mine . If the gun didn't hurt a 12 year old kid, surely an adult could handle it. That seemed to change his attitude a bit. | |||
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You all have probably noticed that Gerard has posted some good info on powder burn rates and the two stages of recoil over on "recoil of 375" thread under this Big Bore heading. Interesting stuff. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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Recoil is certainly suggestive to an individual..I put Jeffe into a state of shock once again when I said steel buttplates didn't bother me with narrow butt stocks.. They don't, I hold the rifle tight bringing it back into my shoulder before I pull the trigger an it pushies me as oppose to jap slapping me into next wee, but I have for years shot big bore English and German guns wit narrow butts and steel butt plates..I grew up shoot steel butt plates on Win 86 and 71s and sharps rifles and of course all the old Savage rifles in lesser calibers..I like the balance and feel of the steel butt plates and the thin stocks fits better into the cleft of my shoulder..I also have shot man big bores with Silvers pads and most Ihave built had silvers pads and leather covering, they are more severe than metal btw as they have sharp edges to make a nice leather fit..Knowing how to shoot and manage recoil is very important. I don't listen to others, I find out what works for me and pass it on if one is interested.. I dislike other acceptable things in stock design in that I see some stocks that are just too straight and all the recoil comes straight back like a fright train going 90..I prefer a little more drop that works well for iorns and requires just a slight lift to the scope, and gives recoil some straight back and some up also. this spreads out the recoil..I like a slimmer forend than most..I like my guns mean and lean. most have too damn much wood on them. Most of my ideas come from the English who IMO are the masters of the gunstock, not the American classic..Just my two bits. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, This high straight stock thing that I have been talking about, is a new trial and error project for me. Something that I talked myself into. You are right about the disadvantages of the high straigt stock: 1. All the recoil force comes straight back unforgivingly. 2. Poor handling on quick shooting. I call it "no personality". 3. Big pads are slow handling. I was a dedicated english stock guy for years before I high jacked myself with this latest straight stock trend. A drop of 1.5" at the comb and 2.5 at the heel is a nice shotgun/English rifle stock. Remember the slender early model Manlicher Schoener full stock carbines. They were really sweet. Lately I have been into single shot rifle with two piece stocks. I am making a shotgun/english style stock for different barrel on my 577NE single shot. I will try that stock on the 577 barrel too, and see how it goes. Enjoyable hobby!. If it works better I will never admit it of course. Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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