The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores How many of have shot the big five with the >404 Jeffery?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I know its been done and I know there are better choices. But how many of yoy trust doing it? Cal30 If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | ||
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Aside from rebels and government troops in various African states slaying anything and everything that moves with their semi-auto weapons, according to some in the game, the 404 Jeffery has possibly accounted for more dangerous game than any other cartridge. Of course nobody has been counting but it has been one of the most widely used cartridges in Africa since arriving on the scene in 1905. Is it the best choice? Well I wouldn't think of taking anything else but my Mauser 404 to Africa, if others have successfully slain so many with it why shouldn't I. Of course now it is not quantity but hopefully quality. | |||
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I have used the 404 Jeffery on Cape Buffalo, Elephant, and PG and would not hesitate to use it on any of the big five with a bullet up to the task. The 404 Jeffery makes a great all around rifle for Africa...would not hestitate at all, in fact, it would be my first choice..... | |||
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Though I have never been and probably never will be able to visit Africa I purchased one for my own tinkering, as well as a 9.3x62 and I must say I am very impressed with the way they hit with authority . Im a sucker for the oldies that never quit working but have become overlooked. If I ever come across a wooly mammoth or a mastadon Ill be ready for the challenge.  Cal30 If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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Cal, you certainly have good taste in caliber choices! There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Cal, I think the better question would be not how many, but has ANYONE ever taken all the Big 5 with a 404J. The number of hunters here that have hunted Africa I'm sure brings our audience to well below 50%. Then those that have had the fortune, money and opportunity to have taken the Big 5 would be just a small fraction of that group. Then to add the restriction that they would have all been taken with the great (but moribund until recently) 404 Jeffery....I'll bet that number is zero. :-) | |||
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I would think that the 375 HH would have taken the most game. What about the 303 Brit and 8 Mauser? Not arguing what is best but what was in large supply to take the most game. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Bill Thank you for the compliment its nice to see people of your stature take the time to comment. I also have a 7.65x53 Mauser 1909 that has been sporterized that I have a real fondness for. After all that old caliber was doing what todays .308 Winchester is duplicating 60+ years prior. And please dont get me started on the original Newton cartridges. Or the 2 Newtons I own. Its nice to know that we are free to reinvent the wheel as a freedom and to have such choices at this point when we walk into a sporting good store make choices. But it pleases me much more that some people out there bring back the oldies that NEVER quit working. These gents are getting rarer by the day. Cal30 If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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My stature? I used to be 5'10" but I have lost at least an inch, and it's getting worse, with longitudinal coordinates converting themselves unbidden to latitudinal ones when I'm not paying attention ...  There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Blame al gore--its Global Shrinking----  | |||
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I have only taken an Elephant with the .404J and intend to hunt Cape Buffalo with it, so I'm sure it would suffice for all five. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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You may well be right in that the 375 H&H has taken the most game overall in Africa but in terms of dangerous game the 404J is well in the running. It was Pondoro Taylor who made the comment in his book that the 404J has probably accounted for more game in Africa (around his time) and he was generally talking about dangerous game (as I was) when discussing the larger calibres. Two or three of the game departments equipped their staff with 404Js and used them extensively for culling elephant and almost surely other DG game too. Many of the settlers too would have been equipped with 404Js on the cheap trade Mausers. As I said, nobody has probably counted so it is all anecdotal but the 404J seems to have been a cartridge that was around in almost every camp. | |||
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I have taken several buffalo and my best elephant bull with the .404 Jeffery. Great round that will do anything the various .416's will do. Though I have not taken the Big 5, (just can't see shooting a rhino) I don't know where you would be lacking carrying the .404... I think it would be absolute murder on lion and leopard. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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cal30 I have taken deer, pigs, caribou, black bear, some African plains game,cape buff, elephant, and lion, with a 450/400 3 1/4" double rifle and the wife has taken cape buff with it as well. Same ballistics as the original 404 Jeffery. Recently, I also saw shot, and shot some game with a 404 Jeffery Heym Bolt rifle. Two cape buff [ both one shot kills], 4 warthogs, 2 bush pigs 4 reedbock, and a nyala. All shot with 400gr Barnes X bullets at @2200fps. These 40cal rifles work great on the big stuff and are not to much for the smaller plains game. I personally think the 400 double and the 404 Jeffery bolt rifles with the original ballistics, 400 gr bullets at 2150 to 2200fps, are more pleasant to shoot than a 375 H&H. And I believe it kills better as well. That 404 Jeffery Heym Express was a pussycat to shoot. It did not kick, was not loud, [I do not wear ear protection when I hunt], and functioned 100%. It is the slickest bolt rifle I have ever fired. I would not hesitate to paraschute into Jurassic Park with a Heym Express in 404 Jeffery. With a LOT of ammo, of course...  I would have no hesitation to shoot 100 each, of the big five, with a 400 double or a 404 Jeffery. In fact one of each sounds like a great plan to me... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I have shot 4 of the 5 with the 404 except Black Rhino, never shot one of those bad boys.. Been shooting the 404 for more years than most live to be...Its a grand caliber my choice of big bores. Is it better than a .416 Rigby, 416 Ruger or .416 Rem? I doubt it, but that big case loaded to 2400 FPS with a 400 gr. bullet is fully the equal of the .416s as loaded by most handloaders and the factorys. The 404 does its business at 2400 FPS and a 400 gr. bullet with less pressure than either the Ruger or the Rem, but not the Rigby which does all this with less pressure than any of the aforementioned, but at the price of a larger action and bigger case and heavier rifle as a rule.. The Rigby can best the 404 by 100 FPS as it can be loaded to 2700 FPS with a 400 gr. bullet as the 404 can be loaded to a bit over 2600 FPS, but 2400 FPS has been acclaimed the magic number for 400 gr. 40 caliber bullets, and I'll buy off on that. Many users of the 404 tend to load the cartridge down to 2200 to 2300 FPS with 400 gr.bullets to duplicate the old original velocities for whatever reason, and it still gets the job done just like it always has and always will. These big 40s are all about the same, great in every respect and about all the recoil I want to deal with. Love that 404...  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Thanks N E 450 and Ray that was the nostalgic answer I was looking for. After shooting mine I can see why shooters fall in love with Bigbores. I am impressed with the trajectory of this critter and If ever have a chance to hunt my elk in Idaho with it at 300 yards hes going down. Ive killed them with much lesser but Id like to see this thing Hammer like Thor. Cal30 If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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I signed up 4 years ago but never posted until now- I couldn't agree more. I had my 404 built on a M-70 Classic SE action. I've owned many other big bore rifles, and still have a couple others, but I had wanted a 404 for over 20 years, and several years ago before the 404 started coming back into vogue I had one built. It is extremely accurate, and just plain great.  | |||
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Well that's a damn good post for your first one Gun 4 Fun, you've certainly hung back for a year or so before posting and certainly before acquiring your 404. Glad you get so much pleasure from it, as I have with mine. They tend to become a part of the family. | |||
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Thanks. I certainly have no plans to ever get rid of it. It is extremely accurate, especially with Woodleigh 400 gr bullets, but the Barnes X's shoot almost as well. I used to live in Alaska, and I may go back up to visit my brother one of these days and go after moose & brownies. It'll certainly be one of the rifles that go with me. It may be more than necessary when things go right, but it sure will be nice to have if they don't. | |||
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I love the 404 with 350 gr. BarnesX or the equivelent in GS Customs bullets for elk, that combo works in the black timber of Idaho or across the canyon at 300 or 400 yards..Never shot one a 400 with the 404 but have shot targets at 400 with good success..An elk shot at any angle at 100 or 200 with either bullet will make few tracks and you could drown in the blood trail. I wouldn't feel disarmed hunting deer or elk with the 400 gr. bullet for that matter as long as you know the trajectory. I have shot a couple of buffalo at 200 yards with the 400 gr. bullets while hunting with AJ Van Heerden in Tanzania who is always comfortable with me doing that. The big bores are easy to hit with at fairly long range and they are not wind sensitive which is a big plus IMO....I normally try to limit shots at deer or elk or plainsgame to 300 yards with any caliber, try to keep them at under a 100 on DG. The 404 and 416s seem to do this quite well. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray I have not done alot of midrange shooting with my .404 but its does seem to shoot way flatter than I thought it would. I right at 2350-2400 fps with mine and (400 gr) and I do believe dead on at 100 yards leaves it only 24" low at 300 yards... I dont have alot of material to go off of to look in the books. The new Hornady manual I bought does not give a seperate book for trajectories like the old ones did. Anyways I did hold over @ 2 feet at a 300 yard target the other day and Elk or deer either way would have been hit in the rib cage. Cal30 If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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Hey Mr. Atkinson, I haven't seen you posting much on the forums of late. Always like seeing your posts. | |||
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Ballistics expert Keith Luckhurst ran some trajectory tests comparing a .404 Jeffery loaded with 400-grain bullets at 2280 fps, a .458 Winchester Magnum loaded with 500-grain bullets at 2090 fps, and a .375 H&H leaded with 300-grain bullets at 2550 fps, all sighted in at 100 meters. According to Luckhurst, “At 250 meters the .375 Magnum has dropped 11 inches, the .404 has dropped 13 inches and the .458 has dropped 18 inches. But at 150 meters there is a spread of only one inch between these calibers, and at 200 meters it is four inches. Most gunwriters would describe the .375 Magnum as flat shooting and the descriptions of the .458 tend to include words like ‘rainbow trajectory.’ In reality, the point of aim for any of the rifles is virtually the same out to 150 meters.” Luckhurst concludes that the .404 Jeffery, with better penetration and less recoil than the .458, a trajectory almost as flat as the .375 H&H, and overall performance similar or equal to the .416 Rigby, is a particularly well-balanced rifle for the largest and most dangerous game. http://404jeffery.blogspot.co.nz/ | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores How many of have shot the big five with the >404 Jeffery?
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