looooong rummored federal is loading the 404 jeffery...but the question is WHEN???

one of the gun rags says federal is coming out with the 404 jeffery as a comercial cart. my guess is it will be announced at the jan shot show. does anyone have intel on this???

I hope it happens. Not that I would give up my hnadloads but it may spur other manuf. to produce brass & bullets.

/

here is my take on it...

rigby used to command uber premium prices for loaded 416 ammo. now they cant, it now is the 06 of the lower big bores. now the 404 has no other big commercial backers so they can charge the same as they used to and make the same profit they used to on the 416 and when the federal dam breaks there will be a flurry of new 404 rifles being made, custom or otherwise.

the way it was described to me is that since there are no SAAMI standards for the 404 Federal decided to drop the entire idea. Which is why Ruger dropped the idea years ago as well. Hornady also looked at it - and may still be for all I know.

Are there SAAMI specs for the 450/400? Hornady just brought back that old round, I would think the .404j would be in the same catagory.

i guess its about c.y.a.

Oh boy more over-priced factory ammo. The 416 Rigby is superior anyway.

I read that Ruger dropped the .404 because variations in ammo affected headspace and ignition. The rather slight shoulder angle may not not be well enough controlled in all the old rifles to satisfy concern about function.

The .450/.400 is a rimmed round and anyone make rimmed ammo headspace.

spoke with my friend at Hornady: he says they will offer loaded ammunition, brass, and bullets when Ruger is convinced to build rifles for it.

Rich

Ruger may be afraid to build rifles for it if the existing ammo is undependable... Maybe they need to rename it to the .425 Ruger so the old ammo is not a question in it.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
Ruger may be afraid to build rifles for it if the existing ammo is undependable... Maybe they need to rename it to the .425 Ruger so the old ammo is not a question in it.

Hmm! Nostalgia or nuevo!! On one hand is the conjuring of Africa and in the other the promise of SAAMI.

hmmmmm....

this idea does have merrit.

others have "legitimized" other carts as their own 338-06 for example and getting saami standardizing.

if ruger or federal called it the federal 404 jeffery or ruger 404 jeffery there would be no confusion and there could be a standardization of this fine old cart and load it to 400 @ 2300 fps. loads would be good for only for that brass and manufacturer.

anyone want to saami and standardize this cart?????????????????????????????????

maybe lawndart can produce this along with all his 9,3 carts with north forks

There's no need for any confusion, nor for SAAMI to standardize it. The .404 is standardized by CIP. Load the ammo to CIP spec (the CIP pressure standard is the uprated one, not the 16 ton original), and chamber new rifles to CIP spec. What difference does it make if it's SAAMI standard or CIP?

Hornady is loading .450/.400 3" NE and 9.3X74R to CIP standard and Ruger .400 barrels are CIP spec. The .404 can be handled in the same way.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

The .404 is a rimless hull with a shallow shoulder angle that may not have been well controlled or standardized. The aame problem has affected modern .35 Whelen with some lots of brass.
The .450/.400 and 9.3X74R are both rimmed designs. Rimmed designed chambers and ammo are easy to to gage. Anyone can get them right.
I suspect that .404 Jeffery ammo varies.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
The .404 is a rimless hull with a shallow shoulder angle that may not have been well controlled or standardized. The aame problem has affected modern .35 Whelen with some lots of brass.

No, the .404 has worked fine for 100 years. The British ammo worked fine in the British rifles. Likewise the German. Had the design been prone to problems, the cartridge would have gotten itself a terrible reputation very quickly, as it was primarily used on dangerous game. Of course, the inverse is true.

quote:

I suspect that .404 Jeffery ammo varies.

Not if the ammo is manufactured to CIP spec. As I recall, Ruger's problem was incorrect chamber dimensions, not ammo.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Damn, what a shame! The 404 and the could have been used before!

looks kind of like a 416AR from here...the reamer print that is. If I ever get all of my 505 Gibbs based wildcats built, a series or AR cartridges might be entertaining to work with. A 425 Ruger would be nice, but I think the are focusing on the 375 Ruger and possible variations on that theme for 2006-2007.

As Jeffe says, "...AR's ridding the world of 7mm Mags one at a time...".

Rich

the best wildcat is the simplest...

trim at 2.65 and have a cal length neck and still use all the normal 404 stuff but it fits in a win mag length action...

back to the 404...

how much does it take to get a cart saami approved???

I deffinatly don't think that Hornady or Ruger should rest on 1 cart. It's just downright unfaithfull to the masses.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

how much does it take to get a cart saami approved???

Good question! I'm thinking spec drawings with cases to match. Some proof loads, or no?
Maybe some money perhaps?

we could get the damn thing saami approved and make our own damn ammo

well charge non a.r. people federal prices

who has a preasure barrel???

Quote
"As I recall, Ruger's problem was incorrect chamber dimensions,"

400,
It made no sense that Ruger could not make their own XG-1 function. Now you are telling me they could not get a $150 chambering reamer made to the right specifications? More non-sense.

Ireload,

you may be onto something here...

Rich
500grains is at the head of my horse's asses list, ahead of even ScottS, because SS is ocasionally entertaining, never self-importans, and seems to have a much more reality-oriented sense of self image

can't spell important either

Rich

I suppose the 4naught4 would be good but they should in stead make a new factory round in its place , say { the 400 Pondoro } As standardized by A-Square .. ................A nice belt so it is reliable ,, up to around 85 grain powder capacity so it will go roaring right along.. And .409 bullet diameter so you can hunt African dangerous game . Lots of bullets available for it and I can shoot 41 mag pistol bullets for blastin.......And with a 300 gr sptzer or the LOST RIVER Ballistics boat tail J36.......A Red Mister Special.......... But this is a thread about the 404 . They should forget the whole foolish thing and Ruger should bring out a stainless , green, long action in the 416 Rem Mag...........Hornady should load ammo and Rem should pickup the pace also and bring the 350 gr A-Frame back out.But at 2650 fps ...........Or make a Core Loct ultra 325 gr Sptz BT load @ 2800 fps .Then I could use factory ammo ....... Just my thots tho.. Have a good day gb out

quote:

As standardized by A-Square .

No offense GB, but the only thing A2 standardized was poor quality and their ability to demonstrate poor customer service!