I'm looking for opinions on why people don't use the 460 WM more in Africa for Dangerous Game. The Weatherby calibers (460,416 and 378) get a bad rap because of their high velocity, with that said and with todays premier bullets I would think their populatity would be better. Plus you can always slow the bullet down with reloading. Just looking for opinions.

Thanks

Steve

You put a barnes triple shock in it & nothing on this planet could stand up to it.

Syeve,

Well, for starters just look at the price of a box of shells. Talk about "shell shock". Even if you reload the brass cost is way up there too. The 458 Lott, 416 Remmy and 375 H&H are just as good at killing animals as any of the same caliber Weatherbys and cost a lot less to shoot. Less cost equals more range time, which is something far too many hunters miss the boat on. Now look at the cost of factory rifles. How about more recoil. Need I say more?

Woody

i am certain, with monometal bullets, the ubervelocity webbies will do excellent...

I am equally certain that taking a TSX, loading it to 2400fps, and making sure the rifle fits you, that you will be able to give them the second shot far faster, with less worry about a dripping eyebrow.

jeffe

Weatherby dangerous game rifle????
A conundrum

I know it's possible to own a weatherby rifle

I know it's possible to own a dangerous game rifle

I know it's possible to have a dangerous game rifle in a weatherby caliber,
but to have a weatherby dangerous game rifle is downright blasphemous. LOL jj

If I was to have a 460 built could I use the Ruger Safari Magnum 458 lott and have it rechamber??

THANKS

Steve

COULD be done?
yes...

450 rigby would be a better choice, as it may have resale value.

you would cut the value of the 458 lott in HALF if rechambered to a 460 woundabeast

jeffe

I personally think the .460 is an excellent cartridge. I have a CZ 550 chambered in it. It is very versitile, you can shoot bullets ranging from 300 grains all the way up to 600 grains through a huge velocity range. For those that want to judge the .460 Weatherby on the basis of its factory ballistics, You can reload to Lott or faster velocities without the threat of high pressure in elevated heat or highly compressed charges, especially with monometal solids. It is true that this cartridge can cause bullets to fail at top speeds, but reloading allows you to avoid that.

I met two PH's in Zimbabwe that have .460 Weatherby Magnums, so obviously they perceive it's potential as a DG rifle.

Sure, the recoil is pretty hefty; that's the price for high speed performance and reloading certainly offers more flexibility that factory fodder also.

I agree components, especially Weatherby cases are also pretty spendy but components for any DG rifle cartridge are expensive, period. Once you get over the sticker shock of cartridge cases wait for an onset of "after shock" when purchasing bullets. The hefty powder charges are actually almost incnsequential in comparison to the brass & bullets.

I guess it's sorta like the "if you have to ask how much syndrome".....

There are no rational reason, it is just the sound of the name that people hate. Because if you neck it up to .500, and name it A-square, everybody thinks it is fantastic, so it can not be the rebated rib or the cost of brass. If one question so heavy bullets going that fast, everybody just loooooooves the .470 Mbogo.

Weatherby's actions are fine as long as checked by a competent gunsmith (like any other DGR's), and handloaded ammo is as good as any. They need a more classic looking stock to absorb recoil better, but all by all, a fine rifle.

Out of the box with factory ammo, is quite another story.

What i don't like is the style & looks of a Weatherby rifle. They just plain suck in that catagory!

The style of WBY rifles is not everyones taste. The push feed action is not the best for DG. The round itself is awsome load it up or down, use good bullets and its a sure killer. Cost of components, come on its going to Africa get a grip. Put it in a good CRF action and don't look back.

quote:

Originally posted by KennethI:
For those that want to judge the .460 Weatherby on the basis of its factory ballistics, You can reload to Lott or faster velocities without the threat of high pressure in elevated heat or highly compressed charges,

Sir,
this is what we have all been saying... factory woundabeast loads are too hot, 450 rigby is better...

but, whatelse to do measure a case on, other than saami loadings? You MUST consider the factory loads, period. If you don't take the SAAMI load for a gun (or it's nominal loading) then it's no longer a "460 wetherby".. but a downloaded (or uploaded in some cases) wildcat laoding.

For example, if you ignored spec on a 577 NE 3", you could EASILY go 2350 with a 750gr bullet.. destorying a double gun in the process... but if you went the other way, and loaded it to 650gr at 1600, it's no longer a 577NE 3", it's now load equalivant of a 577 2 3/4" bpe

the LOAD is what makes the ROUND function, not the brass case.

jeffe

Nothing wrong with the .460WBY loaded to 2400fps with 500gr woodeighs in a nice CZ550 action. It will flat get any job done! Personally I'd step up to a .500a2 as its damn near perfection IMHO. Did I say I LIKE BELTED CARTRIDGES?
Show up with a Weatherby with factory ammo and your immediately branded as a wannabe in most hunting camps whether its said or not. Remember, your image is important. If you can't wow em with your shooting at least wow em with your guns!-Rob

The Lott is the best all around .458 caliber DG round.

The .460 Weatherby case is too big for a .458. It needs a bigger bullet to justify all that powder capacity.

Enter the .500 A-Square! Which is the best all around .510 caliber DG round.

There, I've said it again!

For awhile at least, you could find used 460 Weatherbys for sale at very good prices since the original owners couldn't handle the recoil. This may be one reason some PH's have them. For a budget buyer this is one advantage to owning one. Get it restocked with something better looking and load the cartridges to your own tolerance and you can have a pretty nice rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

Sir,
this is what we have all been saying... factory woundabeast loads are too hot, 450 rigby is better...

but, whatelse to do measure a case on, other than saami loadings? You MUST consider the factory loads, period. If you don't take the SAAMI load for a gun (or it's nominal loading) then it's no longer a "460 wetherby".. but a downloaded (or uploaded in some cases) wildcat laoding.

For example, if you ignored spec on a 577 NE 3", you could EASILY go 2350 with a 750gr bullet.. destorying a double gun in the process... but if you went the other way, and loaded it to 650gr at 1600, it's no longer a 577NE 3", it's now load equalivant of a 577 2 3/4" bpe

the LOAD is what makes the ROUND function, not the brass case.

jeffe

Jeffeosso,
I do agree with you that factory .460 Weatherby ammo is loaded too hot, but I think it's wrong to judge the the cartridge solely based on these figures. You must also consider what can be done with the case; with reloading you can drop the velocity to more reasonable levels using any .458 bullet without fear of running out of case capacity or hitting high pressures. Yes, by doing this you no longer have a "true .460 Weatherby", but instead will have a load more than capable of taking any animal on this planet with the benefits of increased case capacity compared to most other .458 caliber cartridges.

Well, I think it's what you can do with a round that makes it a caliber.
I have a friend that argues the most versatile pistol cartridge is 475 Linebaugh. You can load it for squirrels, or cape buffalo, with 420 grain bullets.

What are the abilities of the 460 Weatherby? 350's at 2500 fps, to 600's at 2457 fps.
My complaints are expensive, push feed rifles and brass. Also, a limited number, usually 3-4
rounds also is a bit of a problem.

And, it's the 510 Wells. Give credit to the guy that did it first.

GS

quote:

Remember, your image is important. If you can't wow em with your shooting at least wow em with your guns!-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Nothing wrong with the .460WBY loaded to 2400fps with 500gr woodeighs in a nice CZ550 action. It will flat get any job done! Personally I'd step up to a .500a2 as its damn near perfection IMHO. Did I say I LIKE BELTED CARTRIDGES?
Show up with a Weatherby with factory ammo and your immediately branded as a wannabe in most hunting camps whether its said or not. Remember, your image is important. If you can't wow em with your shooting at least wow em with your guns!-Rob

The 460 WBy cartridge in a decent rifle is better than a 460WBY in a pushfeed Wby rifle! I'll go along with that concept, but lets take it a little farther, The case allows for a very limited number of cartridges in the rifle, and that is the reason for WBY's inline feeding magazine. the recoil causes the need for a very heavy, or BRAKED rifle or both. The case is over bore capacity, and is fitted with the rediculous double radius shouldered case which accomplishes nothing except to look neat to youngsters, and make people buy WBY cases! The rifle styling is not only dated, but the date it houses didn't last too long, and is similar to a dude with bell bottoms, and mutton chop side burns, in todays style of dress, and those are the good points!

The cartridge is an answer, when no question was asked! The 458 Lott is not even at it's best with full house loads in the .458 dia, and works better on both ends of the rifle when slowed down some! The lott is better when it pushes a 500 gr bullet to only 450#2NE speeds, and when chambered in a CRF rifle.

The magazine capacity can be made for more rounds, without looking like a 55 gallon beer keg, the recoil is very manageable, and it will kill just as well or better than the 460WBY. Rifle can be made lighter without the recoil jerking your head off. Nither the Lott, nor the 460WBY are immune from drawbacks! Where the WBY needs a smaller case,loaded down, and a better rifle to live in,while the lott also works better if loaded down to take advantage of the case the 458 Win Mag, and the 460WBY both should have had in the first place. Nothing above the numbers generated by the 450#2NE is needed for the purpose both the 458 WM, and 460WBY Mag were slotted for!

There is nothing wrong with useing a 460WBY rifle, if that is what you want, be my guest, but lets not try to readvertize WBY's rediculous claims, and bring you headache meds along for your sore shoulder, and for the crew's headaches as well!

Folks I don't particularly hate the WBY cartridges, but I simply don't see their excesses, as a positive, when there are many cartridges that will do the job without all the negatives! If, however, it floats your canoe, paddle away!

i've read a few of these .460 wby threads now, they all pretty much say the same thing.

first, someone says something about wby's being too expensive, and for people that like to look good rather and pretend to be hunters - as opposed to real hunters? this usually pisses off people that have a weatherby and we go back and forth with this argument for a while.

then theres a problem with the case design, the lott is brought up as being just as good when loaded hot. really only helps if you're capable of reloading your own cartridges though doesn't it?

then someone says when they went to africa the guide didn't carry a wby, he said they were for sissies, and again with back and forth.

bottom line - seems to me it would make a very good DGR, if you didn't care about how pretty it was, and could take the recoil. personal preference all the way, at least for the weatherby.

The Aussie big time Africa trophy hunters I know, (both of them) were using Weatherby 378's last I heard. But that was a while ago.

Nick,
as for lotts having to be driven hard to get 2300 (they do have to be loaded to saami, which, in my opinioin, is high... and LESS than a weatherby)...
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=804100235#804100235

it's not CRF(unless it's a rework cz/brno, ruger, or a custom job), it's high pressure (higher than the lott, that arguement is rubbish)they come with muzzle brakes from the factory, its a rebated case, it's high pressure, it's not factory (recall your reloading point) loaded with bullets that can take it's impact velocity,and the lott or 450 rigby do what it should do in loading (500gr at 2300)

in short, other than those faults, I bet it would be a fine rifle..

What *I* see on these threads, in support of the weatherby, are three things, someitmes comingled..
1: zero experience people comparing "paper" to africa, with no experience in either big bores or bullet construction
2: people who paid too much for a weatherby justifing their chioe (that's cool)
3: guys who don't understand muzzle brakes are intrinsicly evil on a hunting rifle and/or don't practice enough to learn to shoot their rifle, regardless of hunting experience.

jeffe

Steve,

People have many reasons, among them:

• recoil
• cost of brass (pretty funny, considering how much a safari costs)
• the size of the round limits magazine capacity in factory rifles to two (three if you get the new floorplate)
• the availability of factory ammo in Africa

In a properly set up rifle, and with proper (monometal) bullets, any of the big Weatherby rounds would be effective on DG.

George

I was just trying for a rise outa you guys, looks like it worked. Just having a little fun. The only thing I really like about the .460wby cartridge is they are a graet basis for the best balanced DG cartridge in existance the 500a2.-Rob