Of the five below, there can be only one winner.
They are listed below and pictured as listed, Left to Right and Top to Bottom.

Pretend that the result of this poll will be a
mystery.

Question:
Pick one for all purposes sporting, for PG and DG:

Choices:
.404 Dakota: 2.580" 30-degree/Jeffery Short
.404 Jeffery: 2.875" 8-degree/Jeffery
.423 Rigby: 2.900" 20-degree/Rigby
.423 Lapua: 2.724" 20-degree/Lapua
.423 Dakota: 2.480" 35-degree/Lapua Short

 

2 to 1 in favor of the .423 Rigby at first check.

It is now 50:50 for the .404 Jeffery versus the .423 Rigby. The other three get zero.

The 404J Short gets my vote.

quote:

Originally posted by Ol Bull:
The 404J Short gets my vote.

It does 2400 fps with a 400-grain bullet and will fit into a standard length 3.4" box.
A .423/.375 Ruger would do the same. I forgot to include that one. That would have been six. Voters may write-in the .423 Ruger if they like.

Alas, the nostalgics have come out of the woodwork and the 404 Jeffery is pulling ahead as expected.

.404 Jeffery standard.

Simply because I am getting to be stuffy, old, cantankerous SOB now days and I like traditional, cool rounds.

Well, it's hard to find a reason to bic that caliber over .416 or .458, and so most who do will choose the original 404 chambering. Use the same case designs necked to either 416 or 458 and you'll have a barfight on your hands.

..............423 /375 RUM .....Hold 5 in the magazine and 1 in the pipe of a CZ550 Safari Magnum action ... Other wise the 404 Dakota ...

Actualy...the rigby casehead is 8% larger than the 404 Jeffery so you could make a magnum 404 by increasing the scale by 8%...

if you increase the 423 bullet by 8% you get....457!

Soooo you can make a scaled up 404 out of the rigby case to make a 458 Jeffery with its loooong neck and long sloped shoulder...

How cool!

Just SUPERSIZE the 404...

Now THERE is yer ultimate 404!

Or supersize the 416 rigby to 458 scalled up using the 505 gibbs case...

The dimensions are almost there already...just steepen the shoulder and neck to 458.

Supersize 416 Rigby and 404 Jeffery...Neato!

Boomer,
You didn't think you would get the last word on this thread did you?

.589/.542 = 1.0867158 ... or +8.67158%
1.0867158 x .423 = .4596807 ... or .460 caliber

Another problem with scaling up the .404 Jeffery shape on the Rigby case head is that the max case length must become 3.1243079" long.

Has to be a .460-caliber and 3.125" max case length or it won't look right.

Here is a use for those .404 Jeffery CZ's out there:

Just put a .423" pilot on the .395 Tatanka reamer and presto: .423 Rigby with 4 down in the box.

I am going to have to scrap the .338 Lapua cats over .395 caliber and turn them into Rigby cats.
This is what will be in my battery, the Ten Titans:

Based on the Lapua 2.724", all shoulders 20-degree but one:
.300 Lapua Mag. (25-degree shoulder)
.338 Lapua Mag.
.375 Lapua Mag.
.398 Lapua Mag.

Based on the Rigby 2.900" and all with 20-degree shoulder:
.395 Tatanka
.416 Rigby-Tatanka
.423 Rigby
.458 Rigby

And the Rigby Longfellows with 35-degree shoulders:
470 Mbogo 2.945"
500 Mbogo 3.000"

The .505 Gibbs case head is just too big to be optimally reliable in a Magnum Mauser of .700" bolt diameter. I won't go there.

A Big Ten Dummy line-up is no doubt on the way.

yes the length would be a tad off but to the eye it would be a scaled up 404...

This would be a tribute cart to the long neck and long shallow shoulder good feeding characteristics...

Just increase the bullet to 458, the neck length and shoulder dimensions by 8% and the smidge of lost length would be lost in the cart body length. I figure its a cool way to have a great feeding powerful 458 cart that has a retro look.

Will it ever be built? probably not but a cool idea imho...

they will sell as many .416" diameter bullets in 30 days as all of these (.404 & .423) put together during the year. Is there a real point to the survey? The point, IMHO, is to offer an improvement. The 375R, at least, offers an option for those who are too weak to operate a bolt handle a full 3" inches under pressure. Hoping not to be cross, but at a loss...

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

You don't get it IS. This is not about commercial success.

The 404 Jefferys is perfectly balanced to maintain bullet integrity and give you plenty of penetration...Why some think they have to push the string on velocity to kill DG is beyond me, I have seen so many failures because bigger is better that I like to stay in the mid zone...Yes, even with monolithics..That said I don't require this of anyone but myself.

Ray,
Thanks for the input.
Your outrageous +2600 fps 400-grain .404 Jeffery loads have been duplicated by few. It is hard to get that much IMR4831 into the case. Why did you even bother, given your stated philosophy above? And you have made monolithics fail due to high velocity? Please tell how they failed.

The world do not need an improoved .404, it needs good, available actions for the original .404 Jeffery!

Amen Bent,

That would be the Mauser 1898 action with the correct bottom metal.

LD

Why waste all that 404 Jeffery potential in an opened up standard M98 whack-job?
Oh yeah, extended pinky finger appeal with 2125 fps 400-grainers.

I prefer a Win M70 or a Magnum Mauser for the 404 Jeffery.

Oh yeah, those dummies ...

Based on the Lapua 2.724", all shoulders 20-degree but one:
.300 Lapua Mag. (25-degree shoulder)
.338 Lapua Mag.
.375 Lapua Mag.
.398 Lapua Mag.



Based on the Rigby 2.900" and all with 20-degree shoulder:
.395 Tatanka
.416 Rigby-Tatanka
.423 Rigby
.458 Rigby



And the Rigby Longfellows with 35-degree shoulders:
470 Mbogo 2.945"
500 Mbogo 3.000"


I will gitterdun. Almost there.
There won't be any Satterlee actions used however.

RIP,
I got that load from a hunting magazine and it was recommended by a very well know African hunter whos name I cannot recall off hand but will remember at some point..He is a big bore enthusiest. oh well!

I tried it in my 27" Jefferys and it got 2600 plus FPS with 95 grs. of IMR-4831. I don't have a problem with getting 95 grs in my guns..I shot the load quite a bit and hunted with it for several years...Mike Brady tested it in his test barrel and got a safe 2500 plus a good deal and you know that...so cut the crap, until you have tried it..your assumptions are of little value, just the facts lady!
My everyday load is 93 grs. with a 400 gr. bullet and thats good for 2400 FPS, and I like that better than your squibb loads in my .404...

As to monolithic failure, more than several have occured with me and I know other who have had failures with the Barnes X bullet...Gary Painter of Twin Falls had one bend double and make two holes on the same side, and the bullet hit a tree my his head, it was cut out and was bent double!!..I had a coyote run more than a mile as the bullet did not open up at 30 yards, it was a 150 gr. 06 that just slicked through him...Another on a deer that failed to open and just pierced him and another hunter about 600 yards away shot him..He was hit behind the shoulder with a 150 gr. .308..They always seem to work on big heavy animals like Cape Buffalo it seems to me...I can name a few more but see no point in it and only replying to satisfy your request as it will just stir up the masses and gain nothing. I will let you handle that!

BTW, I have had excellent luck with GS Customs monolithic bullets. The Barnes bullets, when they work, work like a charm, when they are bad they are very very bad!!

In Ray's 27" barreled 404 Jeffery:
93 grains gives 2400 fps.
95 grains gives "2600 plus."

No worries.
The .423 Rigby will give 2700 fps with a 400-grainer if desired, or pressures around 40Kpsi at 2400 fps.

RIP,

I just do not see what good comes out of a cartridge with larger diameter than the original
404. The .404 Dakota makes sence for the shorter actions, and a necked up .416 Dakota would give all the power needed.

The Lapua/Rigby only offers drawbacks in my book?

Bent,
Necking up the .416 Dakota to .423 gives you the .404 Jeffery with only a steeper shoulder angle and shorter neck that makes so little difference it is really not worth the bother. The .404 Jeffery actually has less body taper than the .416 Dakota, so you do not gain anything in case body diameters at all.

With the great supply of true magnum actions now, as well as Rigby and Lapua brass galore,
there is no disadvantage to hardwiring the extra .2" bolt throw into into your neuromuscular reflexes. It will make you even surer on the stroking of the shorter actions.

Even the .416 Dakota requires a true magnum length action to work with all the available .416 bullets.
I know this as a fact because I have a .416 Dakota built on an M70 Classic.

The magnum actions add no more than a half pound to the weight of the rifle, and this can be taken back off in a lighter stock and barrel.

0r you can just make more of a man of yourself and carry that extra half pound balanced between your hands. Even Ray could do that.