I just reamed one to 8ga as long as it is the heavy barrel
model with screw in choke. Take out the choke and use that
area for the ports. Makes a good internal brake.
There is a guy setting up to do that back east.
The 8ga cases can be fired 4-5 times without sizing.Ed

Thanks Ed, but I was thinking it would be handy to keep the 10 Ga set-up and have an extra already mono-blocked barrel ready to go. Besides I've a fair supply of 10 Ga ammo.
msheik, mine is the "pardner" model and is offered in two barrel lengths 30" and 36" with pattern full choke only. I cut mine down to 22" to rid the barrel of the choke for use with the federal foster style slugs. The federal slugs are 1 7/8 oz for the 10 Ga, I cannot even imagine what a 3 oz slug from 8 Ga would be like.
Rodney.

Ed...Someone...

Can you post the muzzle OD size of an NEF 500 S&W barrel???...I want to get started on a MB and the muzzle OD will help decide what size material to use.


Thanks.

Luck on your projects.

I don't have barrel yet to measure.If it takes to long
to get one I have to get a whole gun, I'll check one at
the gun shop next week and let you know.Ed

Foobar, the muzzle diameter is exactly .888 on mine. Approximately 1" back from the muzzle it's .896.

Someone had mentioned brass earlier, I saw Huntingtons had some a while back and Midway also lists some but when you click on it it shows it to be special order only and 90 days out.

Thanks Ed, Msheik...

Hummmm...that's a bigger muzzle OD than my 45-120 BC or any of my other "bull" barrels...nice...think I will use 1.5" SS stock, 7/8"x 30tpi threads x 4" long...that should add some weight out front!!!!!

I'm thinking of going a slightly smaller case size wise...50-140 instead of the 475 NE#2...It will do more than enough for me...I'm wussing out...feeling my age too much lately.

Luck on your projects.

Why not do a .500" on the WBY case...
just run in a WBY reamer and fireform or neck up for all the power you will need. Do you just want a rim?

Just trying to fit all the parameters I set into a case size and capacity that will get roughly 2100-2300 fs at 45-48kCUP with a 600 gr bullet, keep component costs as low as possible, not end up with something that is totally unpleasant to shoot and also keep the extractor milling/fitting to a minimum...a 50-140 rimmed case will allow the use of a standard 45-70 extractor with a modicum of fitting.

I will have the reamer ground with a longer throat so I can shoot swaged or turned Milsurp bullets, and also Range Ricks 975gr after I swage them down to fit the 0.500" bore, for a 4.5 to 5" COAL.

There are about a two dozen(more or less) presently available wildcats and "standards", rimmed and rimless, that can be used in this application by just grinding the reamer with a 0.500" ID neck and keeping the rest of the numbers OEM...I have cruntched the numbers for most of them...Ed's 475 NE#2 is excellent for those that want the maximum, although his 585 HE case necked to 0.500" or Robs 600 OK case necked to 0.500" would be even more narly and hellonwheels...just about any of the 50 cals - Mbogo, AHR, AH, Jeffery, NE, A-sq - some of the really old time wildcats and many cases listed in Load from a Disk and Quick Load are usable.

Basically this will be MY mamed cartridge to fit within My parameters for MY pleasures... otherwise I would just go with one of the Rigby based wildcats like the Mbogo necked down to 0.500", a necked down Jeffery, a .500" "Rigby improved", 3" NE necked to 0.500",etc...a 500 Gibbs IMP would be equal to Ed's 475 NE#2 Imp...

I already have a fire-breathing, azzstomping 12GaFH whenever I want to get REALLY knocked around, 2 - 12ga rifled barreled shotguns and two smoothbores tossing 600 to 900 gr slugs and a 45-120 that also does a good job of slapyerdickinthedirt with 700 gr and heavier slugs...not to mention 5 other large caliber rifles all tossing 400-600 gr bullets...I'm not looking for or need anymore of that "STUFF"... ..Rip's up for that, tho'.

This iteration of the 50-140 equals many of the 500 Rigby based wildcats listed on Ammo Guide...at least on paper...won't know for sure for at least two months when the barrel, reamer, bullets and dies finally all come together and I can get some loads chrono'ed.

I've wanted to do a named 50 cal cartridge to play with for a long time...time to do it before I run OUT of time and money...using the 500 S&W NEF will get it done quicker and cheaper than building a bolt gun...roughly $435 (not including shipping) for the barrel, reamer and dies.

Luck on your projects.

quote:

I will have the reamer ground with a longer throat so I can shoot swaged or turned Milsurp bullets, and also Range Ricks 975gr after I swage them down to fit the 0.500" bore, for a 4.5 to 5" COAL.

Ranger Rick makes .500 bullets up to 700 grains

Ranger Rick makes a 975 gr FNGC, 0.512" bullet that just needs to be swaged down or turned down a bit to work in the 0.500" bore...I know more work than most want to do...but then again most don't want to experiment or "wonder if..." like I do.

Any mold maker will make you a mold for just about ANY bullet you happen to want...within the parameters of the block size...I haven't as yet checked out all the available bullet makers to see who has what...from the ones I have checked out RR is the only one with a nice range of weights...but I will in time...

The page listing RR's bullets, that came with the 720's, and also his website lists his bullets...or just email him. I've shot up one lot of his 720's in my 45-120 so far...I want to try the 975 gr one of these days, either in my 45-120 or the soon to be ".500"-140.

It is also fairly easy to use a piece of 1/2" brass stock to turn out pretty much ANY size or shape bullet(within reason)...I've drawn up and turned several weights and shapes of .458 bullets for my 458 American SMLE and 45-120... it is easy to scale those drawings up to 50 cal.

Lots of ways to to make a warm coat out of a felines pelage...you just have to get the wiggly little creature to keep still long enough.

Luck on your projects.

Foobar, I like the way you think!

I hope you have great luck with your cartridge. I definately want to stay with a rimmed cartridge and I like the 475 #2 as a base cause it's huge! Keep the pressure nice and low. I'm not interested in hot rodding it though, I just wanna duplicate and bully around the 500 Nitro a little bit. And do that in a gun that costs 450 bucks total to build. Also I'm hoping that it's a little easier on the shoulder than my 12 gafh. Cause I want something I can shoot more than 5-6 times. And be able to shoot a little cheaper. Woodleighs for the 505 gibbs are a little over a buck a piece and you can size them down in two steps and shoot them in this. And RR cast bullets should be interesting too.

Did you say you got a 45-120 on a NEF also? I've seen a few posts about them around. How's that? I've got a 45-70 NEF, not a BC, I've thought about making a 458 HE with it later on.

Good luck

Hahahahahahahahah...Well thanks, Msheik...not sure whether many appreciate my loquacious candor or "different" approach...Sure wish I would hit a BIG lotto so I could get some of my "doozies" online quicker, not that it would silence the "mob".

Right on...the 475 #2 is a huge case and highly recommended for the "Maxi-Mums". Depending on how much it is "wildcatted" the case capacity could reach ~180 gr H20 and as I said there are lots of fairly simple ways to get where you want to go. I REALLY would like to do one of Ed's 585 HE's...maybe next year if Murphy would leave me alone.

Another reason I went with the 50-140 is barrel length. To get all the potential out of this application you really need a 30" barrel...36" would be even better, but that would require a stub barrel and last time I checked with Pac-Nor the price was around $400 plus a wait.

You reach a point of diminishing returns quickly in the shorter barrel, plus fiddling with powder burn rates is highly recommended. I'm even thinking of shortening the 50-140 to about 2.75"...number crunching indicates the use of a slightly faster burning powder around 100 gr for velocities ~2000-2100 fs with the 22" barrel...even more efficient...but you can't beat a large capacity case for brute force in getting the most if you want to pay for it.

My 45-120 is just a rechambered BC. The extra inches does increase the velocity and also allows for slightly slower burning powder choices, longer burn times means higher velocities also.

One of my starting loads was right out of the Hodgdon 2006 manual for a 300 gr bullet...I chrono'ed it, from a Chrony Beta and an Oehler 33 at ~175 fs higher than the published velocity.

I won't say how much farther I went...but when I posted the information on GrayBeard, people went nutz...seems they didn't read anything but the velocity numbers and assumed (makes an AZZ outa U and ME ) something that wasn't there. One of the reasons I don't post my actual data even if it IS listed in a manual.

The 45-120 case loaded with a 720 gr bullet (with a longer throat cut also) is 4.4" long with a 0.550" seat depth...quite a handful. The bullet is ~1.7" long and is visually VERY impressive...the velocities with H4831 run 1600-1800fs and even with a MB it does give you a nice shove. It also penetrated 3' of dry Lodgepole pine...cross grain!!!!...and out into the woods. I killed a 32" live standing green lodgepole also and the slug went through and kept on going.

I need to try some RL-22 and RL25 to see if I can get a 100% load, lower pressures and higher velocities... It's not bad shooting it standing up, the rifle weighs #13 off sticks or a rest, but I have a 25lb sack of shot in front of my shoulder and I bungee down the rifle on my rest when I'm load testing of the bench.

In all reality something in the 500-650 gr weight would give you higher velocities and higher energy as the energy goes up at the square of the velocity and only proportional to the bullet weight.

I'm not familiar with the 458 HE but any one of Ed's creations would be an excellent proposition for a shooter.

Everyone on this Big Bore forum has their own needs and expectations...my hat's off to all that do the grunt work to bring us the things dreams are made of, without which this would be a very boring world.

Luck on your projects.

It would be nice if NEF would make some longer barrels, but since they won't I'm sure we'll just keep working on them as they are. You just can't beat a 250 dollar gun that can beat up on the older NE cartridges. I don't see any reason why a 458 or 500 caliber on an NEF should need stubbed, just seems to add to much cost for a poor boy like me. When you can just rechamber and have a brute, albeit an inefficient brute, but a brute all the same. I do want to get one of the 585 HE on an NEF, but the wait and the cost of the barrel from PacNor has kept me from going that route yet. That's the great thing about wildcatting, change a dimension or two and you got a brand new cartridge and everyone can do exactly what they want and/or need.

Good luck!

I just talked to NEF...they have the 500 S&W barrel listed but NONE in stock and no date as to when they will be available.

I will check with Bi-mart to see if a 500 S&W is available to order...otherwise I'm back to square one...Murphy sure hates me.

I can still do a 500 AH on the tang M77 Ruger I just bought for the same purpose, or have NEF sent the receiver back to me, then send in my 12GAFH USH to install the cheapest 10-12 ga smoothbore barrel and order a .510 cal barrel from McGowen and do a stub barrel. McGowen charges $230.00 for a 1.25", contoured, 31" CM blank...whatever cal you want.

Or just put the 31" blank on the Sav La and chamber for the 505 Gibbs or 510 Gibbs(plus $150 for a reamer) as I originally wanted to do before going nutz...Going the 505 Gibbs route is 100 bucks cheaper as I can rent a reamer...or do a 500 A-Sq as has already been suggested...I can pick ANY .510 cal case if I go with the Sav receiver.

I've never gotten a project off the ground without doing the roundy-roundy for a while before things smoothed out.

Going the Sav route would be cheaper...about $300 for the barrel, reamer and shipping and probably the same wait time...and I already have the boltface on the Sav ground to handle the Gibbs base and some work done on the magazine box...plus a nice stock already set up for heavy recoil...

Anyway...all this palaver on the net does serve as an excellent substitute for bouncing ideas around for me.

Thanks for the ear....

Luck on your projects.

Don't waste you time at Walmart, their H&R supplier SSI is out of stock. I know where a new rifle is tho, PM me for info.

Tim

http://www.internetguncatalog....fault.aspx?tabid=179

My big shop here in Clare Mi(Jays) had some 500 S&W Nefs.
Seeing as how they are scarce all over after your
experiences, and checking all the small shops around here,
I got a extra 50 cal barrel and I decided to mono-block
one. Save store ones for other guys. I have extra actions
and stuff to do mono-blocks.PM me if you have
no luck. Maybe we can get you rigged up as Jay's big shop here does
sell to everyone and ships to other ffls for guys.
It won't be long now and reamer will get done.

As for bullets you still can't beat regular 500 S&W bullets for
the real good prices, and they will take any game you
will normally hunt with it in my big case. The gun isn't
designed for super duper heavy bullets.You can get 30-40% more
ME with moderate weight(350 to 500gr) bullets at less recoil, than you can
get with super heavy bullets, that kick like hell. And a much
better trajectory.ED

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
My big shop here in Clare Mi(Jays) had some 500 S&W Nefs.
Seeing as how they are scarce all over after your
experiences, and checking all the small shops around here,
I got a extra 50 cal barrel and I decided to mono-block
one. Save store ones for other guys. I have extra actions
and stuff to do mono-blocks.PM me if you have
no luck. Maybe we can get you rigged up as Jay's big shop here does
sell to everyone and ships to other ffls for guys.
It won't be long now and reamer will get done.

As for bullets you still can't beat regular 500 S&W bullets for
the real good prices, and they will take any game you
will normally hunt with it in my big case. The gun isn't
designed for super duper heavy bullets.You can get 30-40% more
ME with moderate weight(350 to 500gr) bullets at less recoil, than you can
get with super heavy bullets, that kick like hell. And a much
better trajectory.ED

The cost of the bullets is a good reason for this project and any .500" cart like the B+M series, the 500 MDM, the 500 Kill All (Belted rum thanks to Ed) 500 Cyrus ect. Michael458 has done an amazing job at making new .500 bullets as well.

Thanks Tim...I was going to chase you down to see if you had an inside track or knew where I could cabbage on to a barrel, but the more I thought about it the more disgusted I became...this was supposed to be a quick and dirty, cheap way to end up with a hammer tosser...buying a new rifle would put the cheap into the expensive catagory.

It's still a relatively cheap way for those already with a 500 S&W rifle...a 50-140 reamer with a 0.500" ID and 0.500" neck runs $147 from PT&G and takes 3-5 weeks...The other fly in the pie is getting the dies...I've been talking to Dave at Ch4D and it will take a long time very long time to get a set of dies made due to the process and suppliers...and also he about two months out.

I'm calling NEF tomorrow and cancelling the rebarrel...I've also got an email back to Dave to see just what 50 cal dies he does have on hand and probably go with something presently available. It will still take 2-3 months to gather up dies and reamer no matter what.

Thanks for the though tho' Tim. My lathe year is getting near the end and all I have to show for it is a not yet chambered 20 cal McGowen barrel. I might just have to acquire the pieces and parts and finish the rifle next year.

I'm starting to remember the WHY's I quit doing wildcats in the first place.

Foobar, that stinks having so much trouble locating the 500. I've got all kinds of head aches trying to locate them lately. Just got lucky and lucked onto a used one. Still can't locate a 10 gauge locally.

I'm new to wildcatting but it can be very frustrating. Luckily there are some out there like Ed that are willing to help.

I definately wanna use the 500 hornady 50 cal bullets mostly, just want to have other options to play with if I get bored.

Good luck

BPI and Precision Reloading have the .500"
S&W bullets. Brett in MN has been testing them in
his 12GA FH in the BPI sabots and gets real hairy speeds.
Even though my 499HE case based on big 475 #2 seems
huge, you can get good velocities for many reloads
with slow powders like surplus and RE25,W780, and slower.
And never have to resize the bottom 3/4 of the cases,
for 3-5 loads or more. Just run the top into a short die.
I can take the reamer and make a simple sizing die,
that will do the job of making the top of the case
right size to grip bullet real tight. Just run reamer
into tubing with 1/2 inch hole in it and thread outside for
reloading press.I got some 1" tubing with 1/2" hole.
It'll do until we get a
bunch of regular ones done at CH.Ed

If it were EZ then EVERYONE would be doing it...half the fun is all the monkey motion you have to do to get there and all the work-arounds that come about sometimes. Some of it is present day supply/demand problems...I also have to believe someone is telling me to do what I started out to do in the first place...maybe...or just Murphy doing his thing.

Besides...a guy needs SOMETHING to carp about now and then.

The total cost for the rifle by doing my own thing with the cartridge case isn't all that much more than having NEF install a 500 S&W barrel...$127 for NEF...$205 to $255 for a .510 cal barrel from McGowen or PacNor depending on whether I want a larger diameter 1.35" OD barrel from PacNor or a 1.25" from McGowen...which is dependent on which case I finally decide to use...Rigby or Gibs...and which receiver I go with...Ruger or Savage.

The cost for the reamer and dies is still the same $300-350...depending...

I've already made up some case mouth expanders to .510 ID and a 0.525" ID short Wilson "hammer style" sizing die. I was going to start on a seater today, but that's on hold.

No matter what, whether I'm are running around in circles or hopping up and down...I always learn something new and exciting when I start a new project.

Luck on your projects.

My shop in Clare, MI(Jay's) has a 500 S&W on the
rack. And they're glad ship to other ffls out of state for guys. And they say they can order more.Ed

3 months later and the 499 HE on the NEF is here. Got 20 cases and some 350 grain bullets for it. The 500 grain bullets will be on order soon. Ed Hubel did the chambering and all the work on the cartridge. My first loads will be with h50bmg. I definately think it's the cheapest route into a 500 nitro type round. Gun cost less than 300 new. Cases are still available and not priced too bad considering they will probably live forever.

Matt-You got it weighted and pad doubled up?
Have fun. Mine is 12 lbs plus and I use it
on action with thumbhole survivor atock.I slipped a
slip-on Limbsaver on over the pad I added.

Others here are getting on the bandwagon and
rounding up brass. With 500S&W Lee die set, which isn't
expensive, you can use the seating and mouth belling die
on my 499HE, and about any shop can make a
sizing die, even me.Ed

Which brass is cheaper, ED's 475 #2 necked up to .499 or .500 bullet size,

470 NE necked up to .499 or .500 size or 3.25" 50 Sharps necked to .499 or .500?

Is the 500 S&W bullet actually a .499 diameter or .500 diameter when measured?

I think it makes the most sense to make the cartridge using the brass that would
be cheapest to buy and easiest to get. Am I off the mark?

Cheaper has to do with cost per shot.
And the cost of setting up gun.I got reamer.

This is a case designed for the availability
of economical, easy to get guns and bullets,
and cases run at low pressures so they last 50 rounds.
I'm talking real low pressures due to a long,
large capacity case like mine. Like half of
what the S&W does..Largest case volumne is needed
for getting lowest pressures for longevity.

Guns 260 bucks, run in a reamer. Bullets on the
shops shelves(.500" actual measurement) cal
by the boxfull. Bullets from 40 to 70 cents each.
and a guy dropped of a nice cast one here to check out.
Case length no probem,Great fun just showing
it off when you plunk it into the chamber,and great
for hogs and deer, with S&W bullets.

So my case, 5 bucks for 50 shots, is
good deal. Horneber, Bertam, and other brands
are available.The taper of mine is just right so
that the Lee S&W seating and belling die work great.


If using 40 cent light slugs, 5 cent primer, 35 cents for
powder per load, the 10 cent cost for our case per shot,
isn't going to change much if you got smaller case for 3 bucks
that has to go little higher peak pressure to get same output
and extra peak pressure means it lasted 30 rounds.
Where some saving is, is to cast hard alloy lead slugs.
If 500gr or heavier weight(570-600gr) and if done right will get
good penetration on dangerous game bigger than deer.
There are guys making heavy jkt slugs in .500" also. Ed

WOW! Excellent explanation Ed. THANKS!!! I own a T/C Encore rifle.

If I get the T/C Barrel in 500 S&W caliber I am set to hire you to

rechamber my barrel & make some dies for me for reloading the 499 HE.

But I own NO reloading equipment at all. I will want to reload for this

new round, my old English double rifle in 450/400 3-1/4" Nitro Express,

and my revolver in 500 S&W. Can you list for me what SPECIFIC press or

presses I should buy and all the other equipment that I should buy to

reload correctly? [e.g., what company digital scale, dial caliper and so on?]

Thank you very much!

Jack-Rcbs Ammomaster press. And their dies for
450-400 are good, They have calipers, scales, Get
a Huntingtons catalog to see the RCBS stuff.
And Huntingtons have big variety of bullets.
Dies for your 500S&W, get a Lee set as the seater and
belling dies works perfect on 499HE case also.
I only have to make you a sizer die.
Huntingtons has your 450-400 brass in Hornady brand listed
and the 475NE #2 Jeffrey in 3 brands to make
the 499HE from.Also get Lee, Hornady, Lyman,CH4D, catalogs
to compare prices and different equipment.
Hornady has variety of bullets also.

If you haven't reloaded get both a Hornady and
Hodgdon reloading books.
To load the 499HE you get 4 slow powders
HBMG-Retumbo- RE25-W780.For your other loading get what
manuals call for those other cases.Ed

Ed, yes the rifle is on a high protein/iron diet right now. I'm hoping for 10 pounds out of it. And I got the slip on limbsaver pad also for it. I also am going to get one of those Survivor stocks you've spoken of to try out.

There can't be many of these made, maybe half a dozen? I've only seen one other guy speak of one, and I can't remember if he stubbed a barrel in or not??

Bigfivejack, since the seater die on the Lee works with the 499 HE without changing it, you can just use it for both. I actually have some 500 SW brass that I bought for this rifle before Ed converted it to 499 HE for me. If anyone is interested let me know. Just need to get rid of it now, nothing else is 500 sw caliber.

I have a 440 GC lead bullet mould that will be turning out some hard cast bullets very soon for this little gem. Some 570 grain bullets might be nice. I originally just wanted to duplicate 500 NE ballistics, if I can do that I will be very happy, especially considering this is done for less than a Ruger 1 donor rifle.

I'll have less than 500 in total package on this rifle. It's definately got to be the cheapest route into a NE rifle.

Thanks again to Ed for the reamer work and all the leg work on this.

Sheik-


I'm interested in the 500 brass.
Don't know if I have anything to trade, but let's talk.

quote:

Originally posted by msheik:
I actually have some 500 SW brass that I bought for this rifle before Ed converted it to 499 HE for me. If anyone is interested let me know. Just need to get rid of it now, nothing else is 500 sw caliber.

You should have a message in your PM box.
I'll look back here tonight and tomorrow to see if you got the message.



Cheers
Tinker

I have a NEF 500 S&W with a RCBS 3 die set....I would rather be blasting it as a 499HE. How can I get started?

I'm getting die redone, and be here in few weeks.
as we are now using 450 #2 brass from Jamison.
AS he has thousands already made.
You can get cases from him for 80 bucks for
20 and I redo them for small amount.OR have me
get them as I got few others going to get them through
me. I can expand/size cases for 50 cents each.
For chamber PM me and we'll get it set up.
after reamer gets back.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
I'm getting die redone, and be here in few weeks.
as we are now using 450 #2 brass from Jamison.
AS he has thousands already made.
You can get cases from him for 80 bucks for
20 and I redo them for small amount.OR have me
get them as I got few others going to get them through
me. I can expand/size cases for 50 cents each.
For chamber PM me and we'll get it set up.
after eeamer gets back.Ed

Good idea to change over to 450 #2 I'd say.

More available, a little cheaper to acquire.

Same low pressure I expect. I'm going to do

a T/C Encore since I own one.

Well when I first did it by reshaping my 510 case,
that I'd made from 475#2 11 years ago, I thought
from talking to them couple years ago, that they had
made a run of 475, but instead they made thousands of
450 #2, when they made the run.....
Which is great as we now have a huge
supply of good quality brass. And no problem making
change this early. Anyone wanting to do this contact
me and we'll get bunch of cases shipped here and converted.
I have couple already that are paying me to get brass and if we
get others we'll all save on shipping and double handling.
They come here direct, I convert them, send to you,
So Pm or email me.Ed