quote:

I bought a PAST and learned real quick I was glad I wasnt a woman having to fool with a bra. I cut the straps off and sewed the pad on a shirt.

I though I was the only one aggravated with the straps. I also need to carry a spare belt that has to be an inch or two higher up the belly than my pants belt. I am average 6 foot 180 lbs, typical size. This shoulder padded shirt/jacket sounds like a good idea, if the pad stays put. Is there a product out there already? Would be worth 100 bill to me in a heart beat.

Jeff,

quote:

just to keep a record..

scott, i have no idea where you come up with your calcs .. seriously.. no one else does either, .. 1178ftlb of recoil? ..

that's alot .. what's the cahrge weight, gun weight, and velocity of your 1178ftlb load?

oh, you meant the OTHER recoil calc, that PEOPLE use, other than the voices in your head...

yeah, wow,, 1178ftlb of recoil .. dang, that's amazing

the more amazing part is it ONLY shooves you back several inches... just for the sake of disussion, lets say "several" means "6" or 1/2 a foot .. which would mean you would WEIGH, upper half of the body only, 1178.1ftlb /.5ft 2356.2 lbs ..

wow, amazing,,, your upper half boddy, by your own "statement" weighs in at greater than a long ton ..

quote:

LESS, and in scottymath, weight of the gun has NOTHING to do with it, as its not a scottymath variable ... so a 1oz 30-06 18" barrel would have the SAME "recoil" as a cz52? ,,,, yeah,,, there's brillance there...

no, wait a second .. scotty's litle math express the force exerted INTO THE AIR, after the bullet leaves the barrel, in all directions ... the weight of the gun.. be it 2# or a battleship, doesn't change his made up recoil numbers...

oh, shucks, scotty, foiled AGAIN

btw, scott, velocity of gas, monitored by pressure, has a slight felt recoil change, and can change the velocity of recoil ... slightly .. the mass of the ejecta is FAR more critical ... but if you had been shooting bigbores for a year, much less as long as you have been making it up, you'd know that...

Your understanding of physics is so poor and lowly I shall not even begin to try and explain how far off in ignorant bliss you are Jeff. It is very obvious that for you math and applied physics are definitely "pains" as you put it. The equation I posted Jeff, by the way, stems from "rocket science" so that may explain your difficulty understanding it . It is used by people, just not internet people it would seem.

In the above quotes not one thing did you say that was correct, with the notable exception of the mass of the gas, it does matter just not in the way you seem to think it does.

This thread as convinced me to try a lead sled though, with two bags of shot and a CZ550 458. I have read on this thread that set-up will leave me to feel NO RECOIL impulse at all.

I got that from jro45 quoted below:

quote:

I have shot a 458 Win Mag on the lead sled And I didn't feel anything. He had a couple bags of
shot holding it down.

I have used the Lead Sled in various iterations to assist with load development for ---

.50 BMG, .500 NE, .378 WM,.338LM, .300RUM(Lt. Wt. Mountain rifle) etc,etc, etc.

I cannot Attest to "no recoil impulse at all".

I can attest to very small groups and long

shooting sessions with protection from pain and

bruising before my injury and prevention of

further injury since.

+1 on the Lead Sled. I didn't need it for my 375 H&H but as far as I'm concerned it's essential for shooting my 500 Jeffery from the bench. So what if my shooting buddies say "Why dontcha just bunch up your skirt and make shoulder pad out of it ..."



Chuck

Pondoro Taylor's book "African Rifles and Cartridges" and JA Hunter's "Hunter" both have chapters devoted to shoulder pads and lead sleds.

YER RIGHT!!! Come on you pussys.

(medical conditions and injuries excepted of course)

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Anybody wear an evoshield?

http://www.allsportsarmour.com/default.asp

That is a seriously interesting piece of kit. It is also the first mention I have seen of it. Do you have one and how does it perform compared to the add hype. If the pad insert hardens to your body shape what happens if you change your shooting stance as circumstances sometimes dictate.

Von Gruff.

My wife and I have just started using the evo shield for high volume shotgun shooting.

The pad is inserted into a pocket sewn onto the shooting shoulder of a form-fitting, synthetic shirt - sort of like Under Armour.

The shield is fitted to the shoulder, and the gun to the shield, by wearing it and repeatedly mounting the gun to the shoulder as the shield hardens.

We have found that the shield does a great job. It spreads the gun's recoil over a large area and eliminates any bruising.

Plus, it forms into a good, solid "pocket" and makes for a consistent gun mount.

I have thought about trying the shield with one of my hard-kicking, big bore rifles, but I haven't got around to it yet.

My sense is that it would work just fine.

Scott,
as long as its not a 50 BMG based round, why don't you bring your 1178ftlb of recoil rifle to
http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/8651068821

Used a sled on my .375. Belonged to an ex-friend. Now that I have a light .458 Win, I wish he wasn't my ex-friend...

Jeff,

quote:

as long as its not a 50 BMG based round, why don't you bring your 1178ftlb of recoil rifle to

As much as I would love to attend the April 24 Hoot & Shoot I will not be able to. Unfortunately, my work load and current budget prohibit such pleasures.

By the way, the example (1178.1 lb of peak recoil thrust force) was just a hypothetical example. I do not own any 0.500" bore diameter rifles, as both of mine are 0.510" bore diameter. Also I have not directly measured nor used an analytical modeling system aka Quickload to estimate a muzzle pressure. You do realize that muzzle pressure is a function of many things, barrel length and powder combustion characteristics being but two. My .510" bores have different barrel lengths and are loaded with significantly different powders and charge weights. Also I have not owned a 50BMG in about 15 years so that would not be an issue.

Thanks for the invite. Perhaps next time.

I will eventually try out a lead sled though.

I have used the lead sled for load development in many calibers, and I have not had any problems with the stocks in anything from .416 Rigby to .223 AR's. I originally was putting 50# of shot on it, but after reading some of the comments on this site about potential stock damage, I went back to 25#. I can't say that the recoil change was noticable. I found the POI to be fine for sighting in (no change with offhand or prone position shooting for me, but I did double check it). I doubt it works worth a hoot for a double though.

I used to use a sissy pad with shotgun shooting, but found it did nothing for me (even when patterning 3.5" 2.25 oz loads) so I gave it up after noting it screwed up my mounting the gun hunting after a long range session with it. I know some folks swear by them though.

I'm beginning to think each shooter experiences recoil differently, so maybe what works for me won't for others here.

Fourbore

Browning has a pad that fits their shirt:
http://www.cabelas.com/p-0055618943267a.shtml

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
..Lead sleds break stocks, I don't use them either.

tell us again about your vast and relevent experience using a leadsled? ever break a stock with one? ever even USED one?

no? and your post is relevent HOW?

dang, scott, i have to say i am amazed by you .. zero experience, even remotely related, but that never stops you from posting .. WOW, you and fuzzydave, what a pair

i am always stunned when a complete tryo, utterly void of experience in the matter, googles a bit and then posts like he's done everything ...

scotts, a man never found to be hidden behind his utter lack of experience...

Jeffeoso, I have never used a lead sled but have also seen gossip of people breaking a stock on one. Can you enlighten here?

Buckeye,
rumors of broken stocks are much overstated. If you take a big kicking rifle, and put say 100# on it, you are going to have a nasty chance of breaking the gun at the wrist .. you also have a risk of breaking the gun at the wrist if you take the same big kicking rifle on a firm bench and firmly place the toe of the rifle ON THE BENCH --

if you try and stop the rifle with the lead sled, you might damage/break the gun .. i think you have a pretty good chance of it, in fact ..

one bag of shot works about perfect .. it slows things down without out trying stop the rifle .. place the stock FIRMING in the cradle, rest your shoulder behind the pad, and shoot kind of normally .. you'll be surprised at how effective it is...

while its not EXACTLY like the gun weighs another X pounds, it is certainly more effective than a past magnum recoil shield .. I have, and use, both ... I also use ear and eye protection, too ... which I have seen just a pile of guys not use.

I have shot from 550 gibbs/mag/express to 257 weatherby (it was the only rest at the range that day ... didn't feel like moving it to sight in a friends rifle, so i shot it.. kinda silly, but zip recoil) ..

Generally I use it for load dev work .. i don't know about you, but for me, recoil is worse off the bench, and i see no need to "Test my maniless" by doing load dev (20-30 shots) while getting beaten about the shoulders and working on making a flinch.

then again, some guys think recoil pads and ear plugs are useless sissy pads

Jeffeosso, thank you for the wisedom!

quote:

Originally posted by T_Bone:
Hi Red,

I comparred the Kick Killer to the Past. The Kick Killer outpreforms the Past hands down and the KK costs about 1/2 of the Past.

I do have a lead sled but I haven't tried it out yet, but I will on my 458wm.

Where can I find the Kick Killer? is it's mounting system better than the limbsaver?

Thanks a lot everybody, sounds like I'm gonna find a way to make the lead sled happen still (I have 32lbs of lead weight in bags, from when I scuba dove, that I will use, much easier to move around in 2-5lb increments) AND get a pad too.


I appreciate the input guys.

Red

Been using lead sled with my 375 H&H for over 2 years, no problems; not much difference in POI when I shoot with just bags or free hand

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
Been using lead sled with my 375 H&H for over 2 years, no problems; not much difference in POI when I shoot with just bags or free hand

I noticed the same. No shift in POI with my 416 wby and 375 Ruger when using the sled. Ditto with the 577. None!!

I have been using the lead sled for 2 years now. I use it on my .416, my .223, and everything else between them. I managed to fit two sandbags filled with playsand in the holder. If I had to guess it adds at least an additional 30 pounds to the system. It DEFINETLY tames the recoil of the .416, and I have had zero problems with damaging stocks.

It is a PITA to haul back and forth to the range, but if it didn't work I wouldn't go through all the trouble. It holds my rifles rock solid during load development and sight in procedures, even when I've had one too many cups of coffee before shooting. Like Abob, I have not noticed any significant shift in POI when shooting without the lead sled.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

take an old but intact pair of jeans, tie a knot in each leg, slide a bag of shot down each leg, two for heavy kickers. JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
...Hey moron, .... put the jeans with the shot bags in the legs around your neck, like a shaw.

Try reading before souting.

LMFAO .. i just read this.. the guy that says put a load down each pant leg, knot it up and wear it around your neck, LIKE A SHAW!!, calls ME a moron?

OKAY .. i guess considering the source, i'll take it as a compliment

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
I use a lead sled for all my load development, period. It makes the 416 easy to shoot off the bench, and it takes me out of the equation on all guns

Absolutely!

I zero guns I sell to customers and they think I'm some kind of macho at 5'7" because I never conplain about recoil. I don't tell them I use a lead sled. I use two bags of shot and never have a problem. If you are a real wuus, you could put four bags of shot (100 lb) on the lead sled and never notice anything. The only problem I have is zeroing a double rifle, as it won't shoot to the same POI with a lead sled. Then I put a shot bag full of sand between me and the gun and shoot away!

I like the lead sled with all of my big bores.

I have one and I only use it to zero my rifles, then I get the hell off it as quick as I can. Not because I need to improve my shooting out of a gun vise but because the lead sled may crack your stock at the tang. A heavy magnum needs to recoil to release energy, the lead sled prevents much of the recoil from being felt as it is stopped and not absorbed by anything. Something has to give and over a period of time there goes your stock at the rear tang. If I want to shoot for groups and get an absolute zero on my rifle I sandbag it and take the recoil. I shoot a 308 Norma Mag, 300 Weatherby Mag and 375 H&H. The Norma kicks like a sideways mule for some reason and I am starting to see cracks at the tang as I use to shoot in the lead sled quite a bit. I stopped doing that.

Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester

How much weight is recommended in a Lead Sled for a 458 Win Mag?

Slider
one 25# bag of shot ..

Eagle,
Your 308 norma is improperly inletted and or bedded. It has NIL recoil, in comparison to say, a 505 gibbs .. the lead sled is NOT the bad actor here .. take it to a gunsmith and have it reinletted/bedded ... if you see cracks STOP SHOOTING IT

PAST Super Mag plus is $27.00 at Midway, so I do not see how this is a choice between it and the Lead Sled ($80-180)?

Of course, as mentioned, a sand bag or other field-expedient measure can supplant the recoil shield. They may be a little less convenient.

My complaints with the original Lead Sled, some already mentioned, are (i) the rifle sits too high for many benches, (ii) the back edge is sharp (one range I went does not have the benches fixed in pace and a .458 sends the whole thing back at you), (iii) windage adjustment is nonexistent, and (iv) if you lock down the adjustment is changes the point of aim.

You can pad the back of the Sled, sit on a cushion, etc. to work around part of this. I am thinking about the new version if the windage adjustment is better.