I have a Ruger M77 MkII stainless chambered in .338 Win. that I tried to turn into a brush gun by hacking its barrel to 18.5 inches. This was not a wise move, as the muzzle jump is vicious. I have gotten more scope cuts with this gun than my Harris Talon .378 Wby.! Now I am left with re-barreling (I don't want to put on a muzzle brake), but still would like to use the gun as a brush gun/alaskan pack rifle, only this time with a 22" barrel. I am thinking about .375 Dakota, .416 Taylor, .404 Dakota, or possibly a wildcat based on .404 Dakota necked down to .416 (a short version of the .416 Dakota). Obviously the Taylor is the easiest conversion as no little feed work would be required, but does anyone have any suggestions? I would probably use the rifle for Brown Bear/Moose, but not African dangerous game as a I have a Ruger RSM in .458 Lott for that purpose. Please let me know what you guys think.

So, you know there is a 3.34" 416-404 Jeffery, right? Called the 416 Howell, and maybe his best idea. Has about the capacity of the Rem Mag. You might be a good candidate for the new AR rounds, which should give you a little more or at least same.
If you have a Lott, I'd be thinking 338,358,375.
Maybe your best bet would be another 338 bbl, but just not so short. you have the cases, dies, bullets....
Anyway, I'm interested in what speeds you were getting from that little barrel.

If you're using RUM brass, that would mean re-bated rim, correct? Would this make feeding more of an issue than just sticking with the .338 type belted magnum case?

330 Dakota.

lawndart

I never really reloaded for it much. I have a neck-sizer die and NOT a full-length resize die, and because I had a Win Mod. 70 classic stainless I didn't want to get my brass confused. I mainly just shot Federal 210 gr partition factory loads, and only got about 2620 feet per second. I guess it was to be expected though considering Federal only lists 2830 f/s out of a 24" barrel. I already have a stainless MRC .340 Wby. and a stainless .378 Wby. built on a Harris Talon action, so am trying to stay away from other medium bores. I'm afraid if I just built another .338 as a brush gun when push came to shove I would say screw the whole brush concept and just use one of the Weatherby's, whereas with something like a .416 Taylor or .416 Howell, I would have something that was "different."

Is .416 Howell brass easy to come by, or would I have to make my own?

.458 win mag !! cheap brass and heaps of 45/70 bullets to boot !!

quote:

Originally posted by myoderru03:
If you're using RUM brass, that would mean re-bated rim, correct? Would this make feeding more of an issue than just sticking with the .338 type belted magnum case?

if rebated rims are an issue, you might put calipers on the HH, 404, and rum cases. You'll be rather surprised.

and then need to decide if rebated by plan is somehow worse than rebate by accident.

RIP, on of our posters that is, well, rabid agasint rebated rims surprised us all with the datum that the vaulted 404 jeffery and HH cases have this problem, too.

best of luck
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by myoderru03:
Is .416 Howell brass easy to come by, or would I have to make my own?

You would have to make your own, from .404 Jeffery or cylindrical, but it would include opening up the boltface. Or, you could use RUM cases, but then it would not be a genuine Howell and you would be better off with the AR.416 Jeffeosso is working on.

A Taylor is easyer by just runing a .458WinMag through the FL Taylor die.

A regular .458 as mentioned above is the easiest of them all.

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
.458 win mag !! cheap brass and heaps of 45/70 bullets to boot !!

Agree 100%. Best possible caliber change.

I guess one plus of the .458 would be sharing components. As I mentioned, I already have a Ruger RSM in .458 Lott, and just sent another Ruger RSM in .458 Lott to be re-chambered to .460 Wby. (I wanted to keep the nice rib, barrel band, etc. on the Ruger, but may find that a .460 with 23" barrel is not pleasant). If loaded with 400 grain North Forks or 350 gr X-Bullets, what do you think the maximum effective range of a .458 would be for moose?

375 Taylor...
L

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

RIP, on of our posters that is, well, rabid agasint rebated rims surprised us all with the datum that the vaulted 404 jeffery and HH cases have this problem, too.

jeffe

Jeffe, that is BS!!!
The .404 Jeffery has zero rebate!!!
DWM, RWS, Norma ... all the modern brass makers have seen to it that the new .404 Jeffery brass has no rebate. I and others have reported here that in the beginning there was a few thou rebate on the .404 Jeffery. But that got fixed.

I thought the rim and belt of the .375 H&H were the same diameter, and I have never said otherwise.

Yes, I am rabidly anti-rebated-rim.

back to the original question:

.416 Taylor for practicality, .404 Dakota for a change of pace.

Does anyone have much experience with 370 gr Northforks out of the .416 Taylor? Quickload makes it seem like 2400 f/s is very doable out of a 22 inch barrel. Is this realistic?

Ron,
which one is BS? that it's rebated or not ?

Rebate by design MIGHT be bad(after a point) but rebate by accident CAN'T be any better

HH cases are ALL "accidentily" rebated.. i've measured many of them.. ALL of them.. might be .001 ... might be .005 ... and the spec says NONE

I point this out because I believe EVERYONE will agree some amount of rebate is "bad" and some of it "doesn't matter"..

and anything less than .035 is PII

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Worst .404 Jeffery specs of old that I am aware of:

0.544" head
0.537" rim

A-Square still shows a 0.545" head and a 0.543" rim.

All my DWM and Norma brass seems to be around 0.542" for head and rim.

This was at worst only 0.007" rebate, less than half that of the RUM, so you see how it got by until corrected TO ZERO REBATE.

My Dakota cases for the .416 Dakota and .404 Dakota have head and rim equal at 0.545". Saeed's .375/404 started life with necked down .416 Dakota brass, and that is why it is superior to the .375 RUM.

Alf,
Please put me on the subscriber list for any .404 Jeffery publication, please.

Jeffe, you are quibbling.
The Norma brass for .404 Jeffery is not rebated at all anymore. The head and rim match precisely.

Hardheads can take decades to learn a single new trick, so it is not surprising that it took half a century for them to fix the micro-rebate on the .404 Jeffery. It is no more.

There is a whole lot of bogus data on drawings in books and on the internet. Really!!!

Rip,
not quibbling, actually.. pointing out that the golden era of the 404 consisted of 100% rebated rims. Nothing more, nothing less.

what one would make of a rebated rim, by design or by accident, is another matter...

then again, the basic question lingers... which is worse.. rebate by plan or accident?

The "answer" is that there's a point were rebated rims matter... might be the 284.. might be the 500 jeffe... 425 WR.... the latter are issues, that can be worked around,


Here's an interesting one...

the 510 wells is far better and easier to get to feed than 500 jeffe...


ever put calipers on 460 weatherby brass?

i have...

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Rip,
not quibbling, actually.. pointing out that the golden era of the 404 consisted of 100% rebated rims. Nothing more, nothing less.

what one would make of a rebated rim, by design or by accident, is another matter...

then again, the basic question lingers... which is worse.. rebate by plan or accident?

The "answer" is that there's a point were rebated rims matter... might be the 284.. might be the 500 jeffe... 425 WR.... the latter are issues, that can be worked around,


Here's an interesting one...

the 510 wells is far better and easier to get to feed than 500 jeffe...


ever put calipers on 460 weatherby brass?

i have...

jeffe

Gee i hope i miss upderstood him.. or are you calling ME out of date

Pottsy,
huh? .. you got a rebated rim or something ?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Rip,
not quibbling, actually.. pointing out that the golden era of the 404 consisted of 100% rebated rims. Nothing more, nothing less.

what one would make of a rebated rim, by design or by accident, is another matter...

then again, the basic question lingers... which is worse.. rebate by plan or accident?

The "answer" is that there's a point were rebated rims matter... might be the 284.. might be the 500 jeffe... 425 WR.... the latter are issues, that can be worked around,


Here's an interesting one...

the 510 wells is far better and easier to get to feed than 500 jeffe...


ever put calipers on 460 weatherby brass?

i have...

jeffe

Quibbling!!!

.0035" per side on the original .404 Jeffery rebate, yes that was probably insignificant, and has now been fixed.

The rebate on the 500A2 finally made me appreciate the .505 Gibbs and .408 CheyTac, AND the smaller .338 Lapua necked up.

I don't like any of the .378 Wby based cartridges anymore except for paper punching. I'll keep my Ruger No.1 in 500A2/.510 JAB for target work. The bolt action will be rechambered to .510/.505 Gibbs AKA .510 Jabba The Hut: .510 JTH

Here is the latest listing of approved cartridges for the RIP Arms/DOA Ammo lineup:

.308 Lapua
.338 Lapua Magnum (a switch barrel wiil be provided so chambered with all the other Rigby/Lapua based chamberings)
.375 Lapua
.416 Rigby
.423 Lapua
.458 Lapua
.470 Mbogo

And soon to follow, a switch barrel for:
.408 Chey-Tac
.510 Jabba The Hut

I just don't see the need for starting off down the rebate road anymore, been there and done that.