When shooting the big kicking, big bores with cartridges in the magazine causes the bullet lead tip to get smashed. Any tricks to prevent that?

I'm no gun smith but what I have generally seen added to magazine boxes is a shoulder of sorts that limits the bullets forward movement. Or you could switch to one of the many protected point or poly carbonate tipped bullets. The Swift Scirocco and Nosler Accu-Bond are a few examples of decent bullets that will not deform in the magazine. The only other trick I have seen and I have no idea how well this works was a strip of soft material glued to the front of the magazine box. That worked well on the rifle I was witness to, but it belonged to a world class gun smith and was of course fitted perfectly.

Joe

There are three options which can be combined if necessary:
Option 1 that only works with bottleneck cartridges. Have your gunsmith insert two triangular strips of metal vertically into the mag box sides just in front of the shoulders. If the have same angle as shoulder - so much the better. It works to some extent.
Option 2. Glue a vertical piece of tyre tube or rubber or high density foam along the front side of the magazine box. It is a trick Mauser also used. It may require slight modification of the mag box front.
Option3. Use 1934 Mauser patent concept such as now used on Heym Express and have rear of mag box modified so that it has vertical lips on both sides of rear end which engage in the extractor groove of cases in the magazine.

bulletmakers like Woodleigh and North Fork are moving twards "protected points" and I applaud them.

I would not put anything in the front of my mag box that might hinder reliable feeding. It hurts nothing to have the bullet tips smash abit. Accuracy is fine. If it really bugs you, after your first or second shot, take the bottom rounds out & replace them.

A friend of mine made some tests, years ago, about the accuracy of smashed tip bullets, and eved cut some points slantwise. He told me that the accuracy was just fine for any hunting need. Anyway, I agree that they are ugly to see.

None of the solutions I suggested hinder reliable feeding if executed correctly. They all are solutions used by Mauser itself and there are thousands of examples of them with almost a century of flawless performance behind them.

quote:

Originally posted by Pierre vd Walt:
None of the solutions I suggested hinder reliable feeding if executed correctly. They all are solutions used by Mauser itself and there are thousands of examples of them with almost a century of flawless performance behind them.

I was not doubting you Pierre. I just wouldn't do it, especially on a DG rifle. I've shot the same 100yd groups using new ammo & rounds collected from the bottom of my magazine. If there is any diff. I can't see it & my 404jeffery shoots some pretty small groups for a rifle built to hit much larger targets.

Fred338. No offense taken. You a .404 Jef fan too? Mine is built on a Vektor double square bridge magnum action. Vektor used original Mauser drawings and duplicated them on modern steels during 1990's. I am deeply involved in Big Bore Association - Southern Africa and I see about 350 - 500 dangerous game rifles in action on both range (stresfire simulations) and in the bush per annum from 9,3x62mm up to .585 Nyati and when the mods are reasonably well extecuted they cause no problems. Fact is - I see more ex factory and first time in use directly from gunmaker hickups than specialized modifications. I also see enough good brand doubles giving problems to seriously question many old claims about their superiority. Many beliefs we hold today are the consequence of repetition of opinion rather than experienced fact. Tel me more about your .404. Did you know that it was designed in 1905 and not 1909?

I used to have a strip of metal welded in the magazine box at the shoulder to keep that from happening. It worked fine, but there is no need as the bent tips don't hurt a thing...More of a problem is driving the bullets back into the case and that is a serious matter, but mostly caused by replacing the shot rounds with new rounds and leaving the bottom rounds in the magazine too long thus they take a beating over a longer time period.

The Heym Express magnum Mauser magazine box has a spring system in the front of the box. This prevents the bullets from getting banged into the cases. I do however recomend a "death crimp" for all big bore cartridges.The system works to some degree but the cartridge secund from the top does get a small nick in the lead tip..

PS my rifle is a .500 Jeffery and I am talking about Woodleigh SN 535 grn bullets.

Cheers,

André

I agree with the others. I've tested to see if I could tell the difference as far as accuracy went comparing damaged tips. I could never tell a difference. So I no longer worry about it. I do keep the damaged ones separate and load them back in the magazine first. Hey no use making them all look bad.

Pierre, my 404jeffery is built on a M70 300RUM rifle. I kept the factory stock & modified it. It has a 23" #5 PacNor bbl. & Dakota 1/4 rib w/ some other goodies. Here is a link to a pic:
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=792103804#792103804
It's a great rifle, very accurate w/ just about any load I have tried. On good days she stays well under 1moa. I have had it to Africa once for buffalo & some plainsgame. With the 380grNF @ 2250fps, it's a great slayer of game big & small. I am off to the Caprivi in 08 for a big buffalo & she'll go along again.

Agreed the smashed tips don't hurt a thing. However, I ran into a situation with the infamous 585 NYATI with Bertram brass that resulted in the smashed nose bullets setting back the shoulder of the case such that it would not chamber. Crimp held, shoulder didn't. That was the final straw for me and the NYATI. The .600Ok was born to fix all of its problems.-Rob

Rob
The bertram brass is thin and that might have something to do with it
Bertram brass for .500 Jeffery is so thin that a normal dieset will not crimp the bullet at all.

Cheers,

André

I believe Bertram brass to be the worst brass in the world..It is pretty much useless IMO..

Thanks for the feed back. Actually, I've noticed no difference in accuracy, especially for hunting. I think the quickest solution is to 1) live with it or 2) go with protected point bullets. Regards, AIU

one final tip. athere is some teflon single sided tape available that is about .015 thick. All the benchrest guys use it on the front ends of their beavertail stocks so they slide better on the rests and I think Sinclair may still sell it. I cut a piece of this and fitted it to the front of my mag box. It did wonders to stop the bullet nose deformation by allowing for some compression and also seemed to improve the feeding. I used this very successfully in Africa on one trip. Cheap fix.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I believe Bertram brass to be the worst brass in the world..It is pretty much useless IMO..

AMEN

Rob
That teflon tape on top of a strip of rubber is one neat trick. Thanks

Cheers,

André

Fredj338. I had a look at you gun pic. Now that is a functional dgr. I know somebody will kill me for saying it, but I much prefer the cone breech of the M-70 over the Mauser for dgr's. Then of course I do not have to spend hundreds on a replacement safety or bolt sleeve, and unless it started as a Mauser sporter the fact that I will replace the M-70 mag box/trigger guard is same as on the Mauser. If you have more loads to share will you also send them to me direct please - apart from sharing it here. I am sometimes off line for long times when in the bush.

JefferyDenmark. Do you have a Heym Express? If so, please let me have your views on it. I enjoyed it, but there were some aspects which I though could be faulted through personal taste.
Pierre

Pierre

I do have one, in .500 Jeffery
It is a 4+1 weapon wothout Rigby magazine.

Fel free to e-mail me:

andreflor@tdcadsl.dk

Cheers,

André