The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Anyone using big bore single shots in Africa?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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As I like most of the single shot concepts I would like to know how many of you are using single shot rifles for DG. I think it would be fun to shoot particularly 450/400 NE and use it even for large plains game. What are your experiences? | ||
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Hi CZ My wife shoots a Ruger #1 in 416 Rigby, she uses it for 90% of her hunting and I use it a lot as well. She also has a custom 500NE single shot. She has shot 2 buffalo with her single shots and backed me up on a couple of elephant. A single shot is in my opinion a wonderfull and viable choice for a client. However we have the habit of always backing each other up on DG as a follow up shot is always slower than with other guns. DG remain dangerous and with the limitation of rate of fire we back up, when we are hunting with a PH I always ask him to back up any time he feels compelled to. That said with the way we hunt it has never been necesarry. Our usual plains game destination also has dangerous game and I often walk with only a single shot rifle and feel confident to do so. | |||
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My Ruger No.1 in .450NE (with Leupold 2x in QD rings) will be going with me next time! "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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I like single shots, even though I have not used them much in the field, and never really on dangerous game, although I see zero issues with a competent shooter doing so. I have several 1885s that have been converted to my B&M cartridges, a 416 B&M, 458 B&M, 50 B&M, and 50 B&M Alaskan. I also have a Ruger #13 converted to 50 B&M Alaskan. It was one of the 50th Anniversary #1s in 45/70, I never messed with it, so decided I might like it better in 50 B&M AK which I do. I also had a NRA 1885 from some years ago, and I converted it to 50 B&M Ak too... I very much enjoy these guns, and maybe one day make a plan to take them somewhere..............   http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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IMO it depends entirely on how you intend to hunt DG. From a blind or at 75 yards + distance, I would have no problem. However, for hunting DG they way I, and many other experienced DG hunters here on AR, prefer, which is up close and personal, I believe it constitutes a reckless risk to the entire hunting party.  Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Well heck, Craig Boddington does it.  The proficient can reload a single shot from a cartridge carrier on the wrist of the off hand, about as fast as a bolt action, replenishing the wrist carrier from the ammo belt when needed. Not really a stunt for the proficient. Easier to load one at a time with a single than two at a time with a double. No jam or feeding problems from rifle mechanics, just fumbling finger issues for the non-proficient.  I have not hunted DG with a single shot, but I keep threatening to use a Ruger No. 1 and have a few candidates in mind, soon as the new life insurance policy is in place: 9.3x74R .375 H&H .395 Tatanka 400/.395 NE (10.03x75R) 405 WCF .416 Ruger 450/400 NE 3" 45-70 450 NE 3.25" 500 A-Square And I am having trouble getting a couple more out of mind: .408 Chey-Tac 20 Gauge 3.5" fully rifled with 900-grain/.616-caliber slug. | |||
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I think both Mike and RIP are correct, exactly the reason I said "competent" shooter, or as RIP more correctly states, "proficient". I for one, am not proficient with a single shot when it comes to the reload, which is an absolute must when hunting DG, one does not shoot, then admire his shot, one shoots until one cannot shoot anymore, or the problem is solved. For most of US, myself included at this point in time, the single shots are best left out of the DG business, unless one is very proficient in the reload...... As Mike states, DG at very close ranges, elephant, buffalo, hippo, lion where reloads must be very fast. Leopard in a blind, no problem. Spot and stalk bear, no problems..... Just make that first shot count....as always..... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Hunting DG with a single shot is just another way of doing it, one can also do it with a hand gun or archery tackle. Each technique may require a slightly different approach to do it safely. Personally I like the little bit of extra care that is required in the approach, target selection and choice of battlefield. This Wednesday past I took shot at a poorly presented kudu bull through the brush 30 minutes before dark and managed to put in a back up shot within 25yds on the running bull. Michael, as usual the CEB 416 Raptor did the job perfectly! We eventually settled on reloading from a cartridge belt with the cartridge pouch lying where your buckle would usually be. We open the lever with right hand and drop the butt simultaneously to ensure the case is ejected and drops free, take a cartridge with the right hand level the rifle with the left hand, insert the cartridge and close the lever. | |||
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Balule...... I would like to hear more about that, rifle, cartridge, bullet.......... Very excellent........... I have a big heavy Ruger #1 in 458 Lott... One I bought years ago, got a great deal on it. I have little use for 458 Lott anymore, so I was thinking to convert this to a 500 MDM with 24 inch barrel to play around with some........ Those two 50 B&M AKs in the above pics are a pleasure to shoot and mess with... The 50 B&M AK is primary the lever gun cartridge, .500 caliber 50 AK..... I have been playing with the long nose projection bullets only, ones that will not work in the lever guns for safety sake not mixing up ammo, because the ones for the Ruger and 1885 would do serious damage to the lever guns. Running a 450 Solid at 2150 fps in the 20 inch barrel of the Ruger #1, and matching 410 HP at 2200 fps. I have not had time to push them further, but sure I can if I can get enough powder in the case..... Interesting however, I am running the 335 HP at 2400 fps, this would do a number on any plains game or anything in North America........... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Aw shucks, I did shoot a 1-ton water buffalo bull with a Ruger No. 1H, Tropical, .416 Rigby, years ago, at a game farm in Tennessee. He was mighty feral, ran at any approach in a 3000-acre high-fenced area of woods and weeds in the foothills of the Smokeys. I shot him at 150 yards in the lungs, to slow him down, then I walked up to within 50 yards as he staggered around in circles, and shot him in the neck. Does that count as DG? He was tasty. Load was the Barnes XFB, 350-grain/.416 at 2700 fps. Does that count as a non-con? How about an epaulet/shoulder-board cartridge carrier? Right-handed shooter wears it on left shoulder. Would need a harness for T-shirt wear, might as well turn it into a man-purse/shoulder holster/bag too ...  http://www.7xleather.com/wrist_cartridge_holders      From member fredj338:  I have more of my own if I can dig them up ... some commercially made, some made like Fred's. | |||
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I don't know RIP...... That might be a bit of a stretch.................. 150 yards......... Hmmmmmmm...... HEH.......
Pretty damn close, especially if the "Petals" came off...... HEH....... But probably NOT at a 150 YARDS....   http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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As I recall Mr. Boddington mentioned in his book American Hunting Rifles II that he owns a dozen single shot rifles and two of them are chambered for the 450/400 3“ NE. I am also very enthusiastic user of single shots owning even one single shot shotgun 36 gauge. I am contemplating whether to have single shot rifle built in 450/400 3 1/4 based on the Hagn action which would nicely match my 400/350 NE. I agree with all that one must be a competent shooter to use it for DG, on the other hand if you are not proficient, the double rifle probably won’t help you either. Balule, I have to say that my wife is proficient in using the single shot rifle (.358 cal) so I would trust her to back me up but the same cannot be said when she is using bolt action rifle But your wife is certainly no sissy if she uses the 416 Rigby... Wow...Michael, nice Ruger No.1! Rip, I also like to have two spare cartridges on rifle, very handy indeed… | |||
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In discussions regarding arguments for bigger calibers etc. people always seem to bring up competence even pointing out K. Bell using 7x57 for countless elephants etc.. Same thing as you saying if one is not competent, then two barrels wouldn't help either. To me competency argument is a straw man argument. In majority of the cases the guy spending tens of thousands of dollars for a DG hunt is going to be competent with his rifle. However, sh*t happens. An unnoticed branch could deflect the shot slightly, the bullet could fragment or be just a tad off the mark. Or even pulling the shot due to excitement, being tired etc.. People in this forum also have stated even heart shot buffalo have been known to travel 20-6o yards after being shot. So, my view is to plan for the worst rather than the best scenario, and using a single shot rifle where one might end up fumbling that second cartridge is an unnecessary risk. Now, if all your DG shots are from shooting sticks at 75+ yards, go for it . | |||
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tanks, Exactly my point. My last three elephants all fell to the first shot and did not rise again. Two with bolt guns and one with a DR. Closest at 15 yards and all under 25 yards. My last buff was taken with a 500S&W revolver as well. My competency with a wide array of weapons is well known. When the poop hits the rotating blades, I don't want a single shot weapon in my hands. Others can do as they see fit, but in my 19 years of annual safari hunting I have been charged and have seen many strange things happen with DG that could not have been sorted out with a single shot weapon, no matter how competent the shooter. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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This reminds me of Fredric Selous and his 4 bore. If you have one shot you better make it a big one 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Michael, I'll post some pics and details on the terminal bullet performance thread. | |||
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Tanks... I don't know, I have seen some pretty horrific things on many of my trips. I think the vast majority of chaps here on AR are just that, they care enough to be competent with the rifle of their choice. But I think the majority of common hunters that go are not, at least from what I have seen, and from the stories I hear with the guys I hunt with. I know of gents that could not even load their bolt guns, had no idea how many rounds the magazine held..... Had never fired their rifle before arriving in camp, had not had their rifles sighted in with the exception of bore sighted by the gunsmith before leaving, and all sorts of these kind of things....... Even to the point of asking the PH to do all the shooting for them! Our guys here, different story, most all are very competent and work with their rifles, ammo, and bullet choices. You might notice I am a bit torn on this subject, keep in mind I am a bit bored right now and doing something different might appeal to me somewhat, and I do love singles. For the record, I concur with most that they are at a great disadvantage in the field on close up dangerous game, even with an extremely competent individual. I believe in shooting a lot, regardless of how good you think, or how good the first shot actually is, its called insurance, shoot until one cannot shoot anymore, or the problem is solved, and then shoot again! In many cases this can be pulled off with a single shot, I know for a fact it can, but it does not take but one serious incident and it all comes to an end. I have been seriously charged by elephant and hippo, and several buffalo would have and had intentions of doing so, but I was able to control them to keep that from happening in any serious manner. However, this one elephant in 2011 would have definitely ate me whole if I would have been using a single shot rifle. In fact, he would have eaten me with a double as well. It was the third shot from one of my 500 MDMs that did him in for good. Without that 3rd round I would have been elephant poo............. In a scenario the very next morning with a buffalo, I might could have managed with a single shot, but would hate to have been in that situation as I was able to put two in the head in relative short order, at least I had the second round in the head before he hit the ground from the first...... All in all, things more often than not, DO NOT go perfectly planned on DG hunts, as Tanks says, hit a tree branch or any number of other unforeseen problems, and you have a real issue on your hands, and much of the time it takes place in a matter of a few seconds, and at very close quarters, something a single shot in not equipped to handle. I think if one chooses to use a single shot with DG, in particular buffalo, elephant, hippo on land, you can pull it off a few times perhaps, but be prepared to get your ass eaten, as Mike puts it, "When the Poo hits the Blades"..... HEH..... I reckon I will have to remain a bolt gun chap for all my DG buffalo, hippo, elephant hunting...... But I might take a single on some other adventures in the future maybe on bear or something such.... Of course I have also been charged by a crazy blesbuck and a roan!!!! So most anything can turn dangerous when the situation presents itself........... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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This is because in the case of your Bolt Gun, it is a superior design specifically for DG using an extremely efficient cartridge in proper caliber that drives a superior designed bullet to desired velocities, and in addition EXPERTLY loaded ammo, and in the end your shooting might have had a little to do with it as well...........  http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Amen...Haven't been to Africa but hunted all my life, singleshot only. Wouldn't feel slighted facing dangerous game with singleshot with big power. Like the ones in 585HE. Like tankhunter and couple others have in Ruger #1,.. Use a shellholder like one on the side of the #1 above.Ed MZEE WA SIKU | |||
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Boddington also went onto say he would not hunt DG with a single shot again... USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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OK, Pal. For those who are not aware, I killed those last 3 Eles with 3 different caliber rifles. However, they each were shooting the CEB BBW#13 solids in weights of 480, 450 and 510 grains, from Winchester Mdl.70 rifles in .458Lott and .458B&M calibers and a Merkel 500NE, and they were all loaded for me by my good friend Michael. I trust the rifles. I trust the calibers. I trust the CEB bullets. And I have full faith and confidence in my good friends expertise!  Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Mike...... HEH HEH...... I could not resist..... Just funning with you.... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Well you guys have talked me into another single shot rifle... Well, maybe not another, but at least convert one that I have to something useful....... I have a Ruger#1 in 458 Lott I got a real deal on many years ago... Hell its still new, I have never had a use for it, so never fired it. I don't need a 458 Lott in Ruger #1, so I am having it converted to my 500 MDM. I am going to keep it big, as I never really plan to hunt with it, so it will continue life with a 24 inch barrel, the only 500 MDM that has one that long.. Something to play around with, and run some wild experiments as well.............. LOL...... I maintain a fair stable of singles, but have only hunted one trip with a single. Back in 2002 I went to Alaska for moose using a 1885 in 45/70..... I could see better back then, using iron sights as well. I took my moose, and was lucky to catch a wolf running at close range and managed to get it too...... I have a couple more big Rugers, 416 Rigby, 416 Remington, nice little 20 inch 510 Alaskan, two more 1885s in 45/70, one in 38/55, and 3 1885s in 50 B&M, 458 B&M, 416 B&M, and that 50 B&M AK above... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Cool beans, Michael, it will be a great shop mule for load testing, and you might even be tempted to hunt with it ... With a 24" barrel, it will be as handy as a bolt action with 20" barrel. | |||
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I think more of a shop mule, but it will have far more value to me in 500 MDM than 458 Lott....... No doubt about that....... Correct, in fact with 24 inch barrel it is exactly the same length as a 20 inch Win M70 500 MDM..... But, it weighs in at 2 lbs MORE... Whew, makes me tired to think about it.... Also, kinda hard to not go with the same barrel profile (BIG TROPICAL BARREL) as the wood is already cut out for that.... But, being a 500 caliber hole will reduce some weight, and who knows, maybe I will add some cuts in the barrel as well to reduce that down even more.......... Yeah, that's a decent idea I reckon...... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael My wife's 500NE on a No1 action levels out at 8lbs, similar but probably slightly heavier profile than the Tropical. Optics is a Trijicon RMR. | |||
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Balule....... Yes, 8 lbs sounds nice..... Must be the BIG .510 caliber hole that takes the weight out... I already sent Brian at SSK a message about this, put lightning cuts in that barrel of mine, get that weight down some....... I am hoping for a T'SOB rail in front of the receiver, probably put a 1X4 Nikon on mine........ M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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No way. No single shot for me on DG - but thanks for asking!  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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This comment is absurd. If you really think that, why then come up to Camp Perry this summer and win the national rapid fire matches shooting against bolt rifles. You also might wonder why the US Government replaced the trap door Springfield with the Krag bolt action in 1892. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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About as absurd as that someone cannot learn to hunt with a .458 Lott, because of the risk of short-stroking their bolt action. | |||
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I'd love to hunt Cape Buff and Plains Game with a Sharps BPCR. Those hard-cast lead flat points can be driven through just about anything, even at moderate BP velocities. | |||
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I have been to RSA three times for plains game with a Sharps BPCR. Three kudu, a couple of zebra, black wildebeast, blue wildebeast, gemsbok, warthog, several blesbok as well as several impala and springbok--and have NEVER recovered a bullet. Yes, the big cast flatnosed bullets do penetrate at blackpowder velocities. I am looking forward to shooting a Cape Buffalo with a Sharps and expect to shoot through and through both shoulders, given the chance. | |||
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In todays Africa, you always have a PH to back you up and in most cases another hunter or two, so why not.. I will say that sometimes things can get totally upside down on a DG hunt, fortunatly very seldom but when it does I don't want a single shot.. If things get too hot and things go south don't waste a shot and get caught empty, wait the animal out and kill it at point blank range with a brain shot, and be damn sure you know where the brain is. But this can apply to bolt guns, doubles or single shots I suppose. I have seen a few instances where well placed shots failed to show any effect what so ever, particulary on Lion and buffalo, rare but it happens. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Won't hunt DG with a single shot, but will hunt them with a handgun. Interesting.  Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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Rip, I normally like your posts but you will never convince of this one. In my opinion and experience, If you compare apples to apples... proficient single shot vs. proficient bolt action,...the proficient bolt action shooter will be materially faster than the single shot. Additionally if you are doing this little experiment 25 years from a poorly shot ele bull, I believe the difference widens a little more. There is no way I would hunt elephant, buffalo or lion with a single shot. Hunt leopard from a blind with a single shot, sure why not. Go Duke!! | |||
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Go Duke!! | |||
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Go Duke!! | |||
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My son and I hunted DG in Zimbabwe, back in 2011, with Martin Pieters safaris. We both took 375 H&H mag Ruger no. 1. We hunted cow cape buff, hippo, and tuskless cow ele. Three of the four animals were basically 1 shot kills. Here is a link to the hunting report. http://forums.accuratereloadin...671008061#9671008061 I'd use a single shot, again, in a heart beat. Mad Dog | |||
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Single shot rifles and their use in hunting of DG / plains game is very much part of the historical fabric of African hunting. These rifles were as a matter of factual history a very important step in the development of the modern DG hunting rifle. Bill Ruger saw this and in a way kept this genre of rifle alive with his Model 1. Whilst there can be no denying that they were surpassed in time by the smaller caliber, more efficient metallic cartridge defined by the development of modern smokeless powder those who seek to recreate the nostalgia of a time gone by cannot and should not denied the pleasure of shooting and hunting with this type of rifle. There is something to be said for a single shot British proofed Fraquharsen or Gibbs. | |||
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I like my bolt guns but I don't think I'd discourage a client from hunting DG with a single shot any more than I would a bow hunter or handgun hunter. There are limitation to all these. I think I'd rather have an experienced single shot shooter with me when things go wonky than a guy fumbling with his new double that he has shot very little. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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