Actually, ANY 10 gauge that's a single shot and has H&R on the the receiver is going to give a he** of a thump to the shooter. That said, a friend is practically giving me one with a 26-inch barrel and I thought it might be a hoot with BP or 777, and the right wad column under an appropriate round ball. Anyone out there play with such a beast?

I got one in 31" bull barrel NEF with
a 10ga chamber reamed to take 4.05" brass
cases. I can make cases from surplus
50cal russian as shown in picture below,
next to a 12GA FH.

I haven't done roundballs or blackpowder.To much mess.

Regular plastic case 3.5" loads with our slower
powder loads gets a 525gr Lyman in a 10ga thickwall
shotcup over 2600. And a 765 gr hollowbase slug over 2200.
It is shown on 12GA FH thread. I roll crimp
slugs.RE17 powder \is great in it.Ed

What kind of performance can we get out of an of the shelf 10 gauge NEF?

I assume the off the shelf NEF needs to be rechambered.

Hi Ed,

I've used a Micro Tig Welder a bit and I just wonder if the rims of the cases in the picture could be welded on more effectively than glued on.

Just a thought

John

Ed: You are inspiring as usual. I was thinking of the sissy BP and round ball for the big bang, big stink and small shoulder thump. A .75 round ball and 130 grains of Fg would about duplicate the old Brown Bess military load of the Revolution. Doubling that would start to get into the realm of early 10-bore game guns ...

Bill,

I like your thinking, that sounds fun and powerful: Smooth bore, round ball & black powder. Black powder is pretty forgiving, what do you suppose would happen if you just filled a 3 1/2 case, allow for a heavy felt wad and topped off with bore butter and a ball?

Some of the NEF/H&R 10ga guns came with an iron plug in the butt stock, seemed unneeded for the shotgun but in this case that should help. No choke right, how you dealing with that? A longer bbl might be better, if you had a choice - I guess its this gun or nothing? But 26 is not bad, maybe ideal (or 28)? Hmmm.....

Edit: I was thinking. Dangerous huh? Black powder will have an optimum/max charge for a given ball/bore size. After that the recoil goes up but velcoity levels off or drops. So; you would want to look up what worked in those old ball guns and use that load. Might end up with the shorter 10 ga case, but I really think you are onto something. Even if AR is not the best place to ask. IMHO- Nothing sissy about what you are talking about.

My 10ga. is bolt action.But won't bolt a new load fast. It is 28" barrel, Is sighted in at 45yds

jro45, is that a rifled barrel? Who offers a bolt 10ga today?

Fourbore: Going back to Samuel Baker, which I so regularly do when thinking about large bores and BP, the 10 bore calls for 12 drams of black (328 grains) under a hardened ball. I am sure the H&R would be up to that task.

Hmmm. Have just been informed the 10 gauge has a Cutts on it. Didn't know they were made for 10s.

The 10ga NEF we use is the bull barreled one
that has 31 inch barrel. Smoothbore off the shelf
gun costing 200-225 bucks, and it has screw in chokes.
It already has a 3.5" chamber. I only lengthen
it if I'm using a longer brass case.It is the
Model SB2-103. They also have bull barrel
one in 24" with screw in chokes. They all have
a hole in the butt to put in weight, and we drill
an extra holes to add more.All NEF 10 ga are smoothbore.
You can shoot federal factory 765gr 3.5"
hollowbase slugs. You can reload 3.5" plastic
cases with very strong loads with our slower powder.
You can cast hollowbase slugs.Use lyman slugs.
New Fed hulls from BPI are 44 bucks a 100 primed.
They sell rollcrimper for use in drill press.
You can size with a $75 super sizer and don't
need a 600 dollar progressive shotgun press.
Cases can reload a few times even with heavy loads.
Maybe don't want to shoot slugs through a cutts.
You can buy older bolt 10ga Marlins, but NEF
just as strong and used marlins in good condition
cost more than a new 10ga NEF. And no heavy
barrel has to be added on NEF.It has one.

Putting the basecups on brass you can't weld it or even
solder without annealing the base and losing
a lot the strength of the base.
Here is pic of my 10ga with long brass case in it.Ed

Ed: You are a pioneer, and one of a kind, that's for sure. Thanks for the thoughts. Turns out the Cutts isn't a Cutts, but a homemade recoil-attenuating device the size of a large hot dog. This is a very homely weapon, but I expect spectacular things. Will post photos in the next day or two.

Is that NEF a model SB2. Older 10 gauges were on
SB1 frames or similiar and wouldn't be best for our
heavier loads.

The 10ga can be setup with a thumbhole stock with
a hollow butt for weight like this one. handles recoil
much better and stock is only 50 bucks.Ed

fourbore
I've had that shotgun for a long time. No the barrel isn't rifled. It is the Oridgeanal super 10 goose gun.

Ed: Here are some photos of this beast. It is a Model 176, and I will have to do a little research to confirm whether this is the SB1 or the stronger SB2 frame. If the former, will stick with BP and standard load data.






As you can see, that home-built compensator makes this thing look a bit like artillery.

Bill- Measure the outside diameter of the
chamber section near the breech,
If it is about 1.20" diameter it is SB2 size.
If it is about 1.11" it is SB1 size.ED

Ed: The barrel is running right at 1.196-1.21 over the breech area.

Great, your soon to be in the recoil club.
That internal brake they put on there is
innovative.That will help keep muzzle down
like the top porting that I have on
some here..Ed

I would love to try those in my 10!!

Buckeye: Tell us more about your mastodon coach gun!

Bill,
bought it from a neighbor who used it as a'truck gun'. It was originally a 36 inch goose gun mark Elibar, Spain. I cut the barrels down to 20 inches and reinstalled the bead. I used it for deer hunting with dogs, when I lived in Alabama. Shoots 00 buck and #4 buck very well to 40 yards. The federal slugs pattern at 3 inches at 50 yards shootin 4 shots, 2 from each barrel. I would like to use it more, but as you know the federal slugs are the old foster type and not really good for heavy game.

Those Federal slugs are 765 gr and will do for
deer and hogs. We are working out getting a
mold for a harder, heavier, version of the Federals.And it is too costly to buy FED factory
slug loads and take them apart to get slugs
to use in our test loads.So we will make our own.
Have another guy casting for me.
It will be a long hollowbase
10ga one of about 850 gr when mold gets made.Ed

ED, I'll be in line to buy some when available. You are exactly correct, the fosters work great on deer and hogs. I also have a remington sp-10 turkey combo with a 26 inch vent rib screw in chokes and a 20 inch screw in choke barrel with rifle sights. Great for deer hunting in Ohio (slug/shotgun required) and I'd like to get it in the mix too.

You know
A 3 inch group @ 50 yards is pretty damn good. Some double rifles cant do that, well at least the cheap ones cant.
With some better sights that old beast might get more play than your rifle!

You've got a keeper there!

John

I have some rifled slugs in 10 ga. 3.5"long
I haven't shot any of them.

Ed: Tim over at Graybeard's says the Model 176 predates the SB1/SB2 era, and is likely just a hardened cast iron frame, so i will stick with conventional pressures in it for now. Still, I ought to be able to make a big stink with 12 drams of black powder per trigger pull, doncha think?

Tim is the NEF guru. And he has connections to
factory and other knowlegablr NEF guys.
Which is why I tell folks that
new heavy barreled 10 and 12ga NEFs don't cost much
and it is the best way to go.

My local shop, Jay's in Clare. MI can orders
and sells 10ga 31" heavy barrel for 216 dollars.
Model SB2-103. There are also shorter ones.
That SB2-103 is the one I have here in 10ga and
other one I rebored to 8ga.Ed

What are you guys using for 8 ga brass? Or Remington Industrial paper cases with the belt in the base?

Right now we are using 8ga industrial plastic
cases with belt sized down.
WIN AND REM plastic cases.
That way industrial loads won't go in the gun.
Many 8ga hunters in the UK do this which is where
we got idea from.As soon as right surplus cases
get found I will test some long brass cases
that I can rig up with 8ga bases like I
made with 12ga and 10ga, putting on bases.
No luck getting those surplus cases yet.ED

This maybe a dumb question, but why not just use the belted industrial case. In fact, why not shoot the heavy industrial klinker/furnace slugs? Legal or some common sense problem I missed?

Is there a recent discussion of 8 bore shooting and gun projects on AR forums?

Oh, maybe you are saying brass cases will drop right in as longer lasting or higher pressure replacement for the paper hulls, if chambered right? I have no experience with full brass shotgun cases in any gauge.

I have been watching this for some time and what a neat project with lots of Horsepower! ...But,what I would really find neat would be a NEF or similar in the 8ga Factory Industrial Load! ...I (and many others) dont reload or have the capabilities to do all the casting,machining,testing,etc...SO, will someone(ED?) make me a affordable SS in that load...Just add a couple boxs of that Rem Industrial Loaded ammo and I am ready for Watermelons,trees,engine blocks and maybe a stray Ga Boar?..I want a shorter barrel(20-24"),a good pad,maybe some porting and a strong base for a good Red Dot Scope!... I will be waiting...impatiently!

I got info and a gun shown in the 12GA FH thread.
Loads with 4759 and RE17 powder. Slugs pics.
And I have used the kiln slugs which we can get
from BPI along with wads and cups.We
get cases too from them and Precision Reloading.
The loads we use with the slower powders get the same speed
and 9,000 ft lbs as the factory kiln loads, but at lower
safer pressures. The factory loads use a large charge of fast
powder that nobody should shoot in a NEF.
The barrel on a kiln gun is 2.5" in diameter
and if a case sticks they drive it out with a rod.
So we have chambers set so they can't be put in,
and we just swage them down. A slimming job,
to make them like regular cases.
That way regular 8ga cases work.If you have them,
brass cases work, as long as chamber is long enough.
But brass cases aren't cheap and the plastic REM ones can be
loaded 4 times without sizing with pretty strong
slow powder loads. The we discard them. They are only
70 cents primed and to get 4 loads, is great when compared
to costs about 15 dollars for a long brass case.

We are setting up a deal so that Delta can bore NEF to 8ga.
loading id easy, just get powder and slugs, andwads.
Use a simple roll crimper in drill press.
Loading 10ga same way. Don't need a 600 dollar
shotgun reloader.Ed

Ed,that makes "Cents" to me ...Can you make a barrel ready to go that will drop on the 10ga NEF?(Found one on GB for $190)....Then all I need is the ammo,could have you load me a 100 rounds of the right stuff and that will do me for quite some time!..I bet you could sell them like hot donuts here on AR...I would be glad to help you advertise on the web! ....
8 Gauge! Has a nice sound to it,especially when it is affordable!

Well I did my own barrel but it isn't best job,
so we are setting up to have Delta do it smooth bore
and professional. With oil fed borers and finish
reamers. With asmooth polished bore.
Now NEF also has a 24" heavy version with bull barrel
and screw in chokes. Now for accuracy later on we
are going to have a mold made for that also to make either
a hollowbase 8ga slug of about 1100gr or a lyman type
of about 1000 gr.The kiln slugs not best for smooth,as they
are solid but kiln guns with smooth barrels are only a few
feet away from what they are blasting so accuracy
isn't a problem.The guys in UK using swaged down cases
are doing only shot loads.So when we get that going
we'll be set to make some. We are working on 10ga
mold and casting first with a guy here in MI.
What I have done is use the 10ga hollowbase FED slug in
the 8ga wadcup.Ed

OK,let us all know when the barrels come out....What about a rifled version?

I'll include you on the interested list,
and when they get tooling done, you send them
the barrel only to rebore. Then I can do chamber
with lathe.If enough get going and chip in
I'll get reamer setup for all to use.

They will do tooling for a half dozen smooth bore jobs,
but rifling setup and tooling costs much much more so
they'd need a lot more guys committed,
to keep price down. And as our experience with other
rifled big bore barrels the first time the riflers don't
work and have to be redone, 2-3 times.

We are talkingmax, a 150 yd gun,And as long as we got to cast
slugs we can make them for smoothbore. In long run,
I say we got to cast as the kiln slugs are just cylinders
with no bullet shape. That I don't think would be good
ballistically, even if in rifled barrel.And they are as
hard as steel.Ed

Ok,good,thanks!....So,there is enough steel in the 10ga barrel to ream it out to 8 bore-thats good! I feel that as a 8 bore slug,heavy should be the order,maybe 1200grs(or more?)What velocity to expect?
Smoothbore is fine,as this is a short range piece..I do bet those Kiln slugs would do some damage on Whatever they hit!I wonder what they weigh and what vel they come out at?

The kiln slugs are 1275 gr.
They have wadcup they shoot them in
but not being hollowbase maybe 50 yd accuracy.
1800 fps with our slower powders in long
barrel, with reasonable pressures. The 8ga
REM plastic is good to about 22,000 psi.
It is by far the strongest plastic case
ever built.Ed

Yes,that is Potent!Should be a "Blast" ...I am pushing 880 Hard cast at 1500+ and 1040s at 1200+ in my Benelli in 3" plastic cases...Feed and shoot Great!Quite a Huge jump in oomph over my 3" Brennekes!
So the 10 bore barrel is big enough for the 8 bore reamer?

Yes the 10ga bull barrel is nearly straight,
and works ok for 8ga.You'll have weight the
butt a little.Even in 10ga FH.Ed