quote:

The incident that many know of

Somebody please tell me what happened. Why is it such a secret? If it happened, we need to find out why it happened and address the problem. Where is the logic in keeping it a secret? If it happened once it can happen again, so help us prevent it. You could save a life. Give us the details, please. PM me or email at gerard@wol.co.za if open forum is inappropriate.

quote:

no better than any of the other guys here who can also read and quote other's work and apply it in the field.

Which appears to be a lot better than what you are doing. I am talking about the applying it in the field part. That is what matters, not so. Shall I take a leaf out of your book and call you Mr. Brinnel. Or is it Mr. Shine. Maybe Mr. Energy Transfer. Mr. Exploding Shark?

Oh what the heck, you are not worth the trouble any more. Cheers and enjoy your ego trip.

PS. Congrats on taking the top poster for last month. It is a good thing they count posts that just contain a smiley and nothing else. There it is!! Mr. No Content!!

quote:

PS. Congrats on taking the top poster for last month.

If it were not for you Herr Oberst Von Prevarication, I wouldn't have had the honor of being top poster.

Still waiting on the confirmation of your qualifications.....no?

My ego.....??

quote:

Still waiting on the confirmation of your qualifications

Some of my qualifications are here.

Yours?

Or perhaps here?

Funny!!

I wondered why I had over 10,000 hits on that site...you've been snooping again eh Gerard??

WHo writes your ad copy?? The local Zulu Chief??

Justification for Existance??

quote:

Must be a very thick cup at the base and tapers toward the nose?

RIP,

You are smarter than the average bear.

It is about 0.650 thick jacket at the base, and pure copper.

Internal profile is alot like a V-shape so it expands fast but then slows down.

Bill has retired but still has a few bullets in stock.

Bill Steigers, 2001 Cedar Avenue, Lewiston, Idaho 83501-6135, phone 208-743-5635.

ANdy

quote:

0.650 thick jacket

Maybe .065" thick or is it not a jacket??

/

What's your point ALF??

/

I've given him inumerable opportunities to regain his objectivity all of which he's declined in spectacular fashion. I don't have any turf to fight over ALF. I'm here trying to help a few guys out and contribute where I can - when I can.

Gerard took it personal a loooong time ago with me and others. Then he tried to make it a SA vs USA issue. Now he continually states that he is the expert and that everyone's ideas, concepts, results, whatever are nonsense and that we are all somehow unqualified to make judgements regarding the viability of this or that. OK! No problem...we're all stupid and while your at it, show us your qualifications. As usual, he's practiced at cut -n- paste and spin but he can't back up his implications and statements.

He'd be better off directing his BS toward someone who's not going to toss it back to him...

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

...Is it a turf war for clients?......

No need of such a turf war, its futile , my money is all ready and waiting to be sent to the HV factory,
as soon as I determine which weight pill I really need.

Gerard the Guru Supreme,

What a lot of smoke you are creating - in true Rasputin style !!! Linear penetration cannot happen if depth is not one of the criteria - are you in a trance of the smoke that engulf you?

Warrior

quote:

I certainly have had excellent results on game with 300-grain Barnes-X bullets in my .375 H&H with 1:12" twist. Those bullets are longer than a GSC .375/300-grain FN.

Gerard should not tell such guff about his .375/300-grainers.

This sums it up for me.
Gerard, just in case you see this as an insult, it is actually a compliment on the bullet - just your reasoning is off the wall.

Warrior

quote:

I've given him inumerable opportunities to regain his objectivity all of which he's declined in spectacular fashion.

Do you really think that the members here swallow that for one second. I stopped replying to either you or Warrior, yet your attacks and insults continue unabated. You two must be really worried about something.

However, despite the opinions the two of you have, GSC will just continue to make reliable, accurate, cutting edge bullets and continue to expand the dealer and delivery network. As can be seen, we still need to cover some parts of Europe (France, Germany, Eastern Europe, Sweden) and Namibia.

Chris Bek,

quote:

Linear penetration cannot happen if depth is not one of the criteria

True. You cannot have linear penetration without some depth. You can have depth of penetration without linearity, though. That is the part you are confused about.

I think the 270 FN Solid will go father then the
300 FN Solid out of the 375.

You are correct - In game it does exactly that.

quote:

True. You cannot have linear penetration without some depth. You can have depth of penetration without linearity, though. That is the part you are confused about.

What a joke.

Warrior

The logic escapes you?

quote:

Posted by RIP
I certainly have had excellent results on game with 300-grain Barnes-X bullets in my .375 H&H with 1:12" twist. Those bullets are longer than a GSC .375/300-grain FN. Gerard should not tell such guff about his .375/300-grainers.

I think what escapes you is what RIP is seeing!!



Warrior

I hope that I am not entering into a pissing contest, but, I use the gsfn in my 458, 375 and 30-06 and have experienced no problems with penetration. Only recovered one from under the skin beside the left eye, of my first elephant, after a behind the right ear brain shot. Cannot imagine why anyone would inject comments about USA vs SA: the sanctions where in place for a very good reason.

quote:

I think what escapes you is what RIP is seeing!!

Confirmed. The logic escapes you. Be careful, RIP is laying a trap for you. Clue: Barnes X is an expanding bullet. The GSC FN is a solid.

Bryan,
I am glad you had a good hunt.

Don't worry too much about

According to some of the contributors here, given the title of this thread, I have no business making a contribution here either.

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

quote:

True. You cannot have linear penetration without some depth. You can have depth of penetration without linearity, though. That is the part you are confused about.

What a joke.

Warrior

Chris
depth of penetration may not follow a straight line... it may wobble and curve...

and that aint linear

Jeffe,
Do you have to be so pragmatic and explain it to him? I was hoping to have some more fun with the Troll before he figured it out, if at all.

Gerard the Guru Supreme,

Both the 270 and 300 gr FN penetrated straight - that is not even the debate nor the question.
Both were stable to give straight-line penetration - the 300 just went deeper than the 270.
So your whole theory about why the 300 grainer should not be used in the 375 H&H fall flat.
Your view to have in excess of 2.5 SF for straight-line penetration has been proven wrong by RIP.
It was also proven wrong by Pieter Olivier.
You seem to be confused, not me and RIP.
You are in your own trap Gerard, with your own bullets.

RIP says ... "Gerard should not tell such guff about his .375/300-grainers."

Warrior

RIPs test was designed to prove linear penetration.

Keep digging.

This is what RIP wrote: (you quickly deleted that he did not use a 375 H&H, hey?)

The GSC FN .375/300grain at 2559 fps from my .375 H&H zipped right through. Nose first all the way. Perfect straight line penetration. 10 boards (15/32" three-ply) and 11 bags of water, 66" of water in trash compactor bags ...

It was like nothing was there at all to slow the bullet down. Straight through.

The RIP Bullet Coffin is a bust. Might be O.K. for handgun bullets.

It even had a couple of 2x4's knocked loose and the first two bags of water had their wire ties blown off of them.

I am shamed by the .375 H&H with a GSC FN 300 grainer at 2500-ish fps.

A 300 gr FN solid shot in a 1-in-12" twist at 375 H&H velocities (around 2500 fps) is as stable as one can wish for, even though it does not meet the bogus criteria of having a SF value in excess of 2.5 and that should be clear by now.

Warrior

You have been beating this dead horse with disinformation for three years. For three years my answers have remained the same. Do you think that, if you keep asking the same questions, the answers will change?

Here is the complete answer from me that was relevant at the time (June 2005), and still remains so.

RIP,
Your question: "I do not understand his pushing of the 270 grain FN as better than the 300 grain FN in .375 caliber. It ain't so in the Iron Buffalo." Can be answered as follows:

In a 375H&H, I recommend the 270gr FN over the 300gr FN, based on my own observation and the feedback of field experience from 3 pro-hunters over an 11 month development period in 1996/1997 . The reasons for this are self evident from your tests with the Iron Buffalo (extracts below with comment from BigRX). The practical recommended speed for a 270gr FN in a 375H&H is around 2800fps and you have seen the results. With your 375 Weatherby Mag, you can reach and exceed 2800fps with the 300gr FN and that is why I built the bullet. The 300gr HVs and FNs are also configured correctly for the bore and groove diameters of the 378/375 Weatherby line of barrels (which differ from that of the 375H&H) and should not be used at maximum loads in a 375H&H unless it has been rebarreled with a Weatherby spec barrel.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
Rip Posted
20 June 2005 09:09
Only two shots were fired today in the shakedown run:

1) .375 H&H: 300 grain FN solid at 2526 fps
2) .375 RUM: 300 grain FN solid at 2730 fps

Result: It's a tie!!!

Both shots #1 and #2 traversed 7 bags of water and bounced off the seventh 3-board sandwich. Both bullets finally tumbled in the seventh bag of water and left a sideways impression in the surface of the first board in the seventh wood sandwich.

Conclusion: The extra 200 fps of velocity made no difference in this test medium regarding penetration.
There was more violence and hurt put on the first (target) board by the faster bullet. The target dot was blown off the board by the 2700 fps bullet, not so the 2500 fps bullet. There was a visibly bigger splash of water and the entry board was cracked and splintered a bit more with the 200 fps faster bullet.

2700 gets more total trauma to the target and the shooter's shoulder, and longer range potential, than 2500 fps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

RIP Posted
27 June 2005 06:46

The 300 grainer at 2500 fps was captured in the 8th wood wall, with about 3/4 of its length sticking out of the down range side of the boards.

The 270 grainer at 2900 fps bounced off the 8th wood wall sideways, leaving only a shallow dent in the wood, on which you could make out the marks of the driving bands from the side of the bullet.

However, the entry (target dot) board (1 thickness of plywood) was broken completely in half and the top half somehow squeezed /flexed out of the Steel Mistress and landed 16 feet uprange toward the shooter. More violent initially. The slower bullet just cracked the entry board slightly, but penetrated farther.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

BigRX Posted
04 July 2005 20:15

BUT, - - - - as Gerald states in so many words the initial performance is extremely important to look at. Here hydro-dynamic differences can be observed as well as non-game like materials messing you up!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Regardless of what others may think, GSC will always base a reccommendation on practical and field experience first and theory second. Samples of one or three or even 20 are not reliable until proven so with much bigger samples.
---------------------------------------------------------------------



The bottom line is that RIPs initial test showed a less than one board difference between the two bullets. That is statistically inconclusive and applies to the water/wood test only. What is significant is the gretaer damage caused by the 270gr FN. Terminal ballistics is not just about penetration. You continue to choose to ignore that and see only that which you wish to see. When used on game in a 375H&H, the 270 is the better performer, as we concluded with field testing at the time. Our sample was considerably larger than the one shot you use to prove things and also considerably larger than RIPs 5 or so shots on the Iron Buffalo.

Now, I ask you to think logically: If I were convinced that the 300gr FN is the better bullet, why would I recommend the 270? Where is the logic in having both bullets available and recommending the poorer one? The 300gr FN is more expensive so I could increase turnover if I recommend it in favour of the 270. What possible motivation could I have to recommend the 270gr FN, other than the conviction that it is better. A conviction that is based on more than 184 shots fired into a variety of media and game. So, until you have a larger sample than what I have, take a hike with your petty nonsense and go harass someone with real problems.

quote:

However, despite the opinions the two of you have, GSC will just continue to make reliable, accurate, cutting edge bullets and continue to expand the dealer and delivery network. As can be seen, we still need to cover some parts of Europe (France, Germany, Eastern Europe, Sweden) and Namibia.

Please show me where I have stated that you will not continue to expand and thrive?
Sounds like you are concerned about this Gerard - I'm certainly not.

It appears that you guys are arguing over the color of hair on a gnats ass. Either bullet will have all the straight line penetration that you will need on any game animal. In my opinion you are much more likely to get into trouble with buffalo from too much penetration than not enough when using solids.

465H&H

465H&H,

I actually agree with you. Both would kill a buffalo, but if it is about buffalo shooting, I would not pick a FN Solid, so many people have changed away from it and are now using controlled expansion bullets. Even the 9,3/250 gr Barnes-X has a good reputation in this regard for giving a more effective wound channel than a non-expanding solid.

Warrior

Macifej,

quote:

Please show me where I have stated that you will not continue to expand and thrive?

Not the sharpest tool in the shed if that is what you think the quote is about. Or, more likely you are deliberately "misunderstanding" to keep that post count rolling. Whatever.

Jawohl!!

One thing for sure and that is the flat nose solid is the best solid every designed for big animals and anyone that disagrees with that is just BSing..

The GS Customs and the North Forks are the cream of the crop in solids unless one considers the cup point a solid then it rates in their someplace around the top. I consider the cup point a super penetrating soft, but I would use it on anything, even for head shooting elephants if the need arose.

Thanks to Jim Manion, CCMDoc, and Macifej,
I now have three of WWT #17.
I got them all now, and then some.