The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 375's H&H versus Ruger...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I'd say you are also a bullet snob. | |||
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Or perhaps he has taste. If this fellow's preferences in a rifle cannot be satisfied for less than 10K, 20K or 100K, what's wrong with that? Would you require John Travolta to ride the Greyhound bus even though he prefers to use his own vehicle?  | |||
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I have a variety of .375 and near .375 rifles, all have their own places as I can see them: I might have been interested in the Alaskan .375 Ruger, but I got a $500 Savage Arms 116 FSS in .375 H&H, 7lbs 9 oz, my "light weight all-weather .375". I wanted a high capacity magazine .375 with tang or roller saferty. I have the Steyr Prohunter in 376 Steyr, 8 in the magazine! I wanted a Mauser action in African configuration with at least a five round internal magazine: CZ550, with an extra 75 fps at no extra charge thanks to the 25 inch bbl. I have heard about the nice handling and moderate weight, standard length action and good sights of the 375 Ruger Hawkeye. I like the beltless cartridges as a group, enough to get the Hawkeye 375 Ruger this weekend, if the shippers weren't asleep when my check cleared. Medium bores are all interesting and I'm keeping my two CZ550s in 9.3x62 also. I hope the 458 Lott doesn't get jealous. How many years at $200 a week does it take to afford an elephant or Cape buffalo hunt? I hope the Hawkeye lives up to the five reasons to buy one quoted from the factory by JJ_Miller: light weight excellant open sights left hand versions offered spin-off calibers will be economicaly viable standard length action | |||
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The .375 Ruger seems to offer only one real supposed advantage to the H&H version, a shorter COAL allowing for a 30.06 length action. Which means a potentially lighter and more compact rifle. But most of the desirable actions that are reasonably priced, like the Win Model 70, are already magnum length so you gain literally nothing. Would you convert a nice Mauser action to .375 Ruger? In every other consideration the H&H beats it, one way or the other. This said, a 416 Ruger based on the same case will offer a decided advantage as a factory cartridge over all of the wildcats designed to deliver 416 Rigby ballistics. To be able to put 416 Rigby ballistics in a standard length action with a factory cartridge and rifle will be a first for a 416 and may cover the desirable characteristics of the all-around rifle capable of plains game and dangerous game in a trim action. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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I have a CZ American in .375H&H. I like it as well as the Mauser 98 based one I built. I'm not a big guy but I'm not little and it's never seemed heavy to me and I don't have other people carry my rifles. Reasonably well engineered for the price point, I don't care if it gets scratched up, and it works well. As to Ruger vs H&H, I already load for H&H, it works, the Ruger cart doesn't do anything that matters to me the H&H doesn't, so I don't see any point in changing horses in mid-stream. | |||
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Ruger said:
I live in fear of dropping my RSM .416 Rigby out of my tree stand.  ............................................. | |||
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Another .375 H&H for obvious reasons. Roland | |||
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Well I don't care what other people think, I picked up a 375 Ruger African Model the other day just to look at while I was waiting on someone. "To me", it is the better choice for fit and price. The open sights came right up without any adjustment of my head or the rifle. I like the stock design and the weight. Like a couple of other guys have said its an african rifle for the working man. I checked with my local gun shop on their price 875 I think. After Christmas I'll be ordering one. Straight shootin to ya | |||
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I just bought a .375 Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan and can't wait to shoot it this weekend. I'll post a report afterwards. As others have stated, it's affordable, compact, and seems very well put together. You snobs that scoff at anything Ruger are the same types that bitch about people buying a Mercedes instead of a Ford or Chevy. Whatever..... -+-+- "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama | |||
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What the hell are you doing in a tree with a 416 Rigby? Also, even though I'm an owner a very nice 375 H&H, I ended up getting a 375 Ruger Alaskan and just love this cartridge and rifle combo. | |||
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[/QUOTE]I live in fear of dropping my RSM .416 Rigby out of my tree stand. [/QUOTE]What the hell are you doing in a tree with a 416 Rigby? [/QUOTE]Didn't you see the pictures of Hawgzilla we got down here?  | |||
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375 Ruger, Hawkeye/African $875 375 H&H, Ruger RSM $1,850 Simple! RSM in 375 H&H Like most other new calibers - they're a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The 375 Ruger will never outclass the venerable H&H. Before long, it too will go away like the dinosaur. **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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show me a stainless left handed 375 hh from the factory... in fact, show me a factory 375 hh lefty CRF the 375 ruger is a great round, that fits in a standard action and outperforms the 375hh... doubt it ever replaces the hh, but to ignore it is just burying ones head in the sand... hey lou... i hope i go the way of the dino... ruling the world for 200,000,000 years and going out with a bang opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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 "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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I don't scoff at anything Ruger as I have a number of Rugers, mental head count comes up with 12 Rugers in the safes. I just don't have a need for a .375 Ruger. Holland cartridges work fine, loading data is well proven, and I'm set up for it. Same reason I still use my .300H&H and .308 NormaMag instead of a .300 WinMag. Just because you don't want a rifle doesn't need mean you are a snob. | |||
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Actually I'm the one who you quoted, not maddenwh. You aren't the one my post was aimed at. This is the post by McCray that got my ire: "None of the above. I've never been desperate enough for a firearm to stoop to buying a Ruger." -+-+- "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama | |||
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In May 2006, my RSM cost $1,550 but I haven't priced them lately. I thought it was too heavy until I shot it with my back against the tree.  ............................................. | |||
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The RSM chambered in .375 H&H. | |||
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Phil Shoemaker, writing in the latest issue of African Hunter magazine, had nothing but good things to say about the African version and the 375 Ruger cartridge. He even thinks that eventually the 375 Ruger will supplant the H&H. That's what Phil thinks. And Lord knows he's got years more experience than me or most folks posting on this forum. But my sentiment is exactly like that of McCray: I've never been desperate enough for a firearm to stoop to buying a Rooger. But that thought is from a guy who just bought a R93 Blaser! | |||
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I have the Ruger 375 Alaskan. I like how compact and light it is. I sold my 375H&H RSM because I took it on a caribou hunt out of Kotzebue and did not like carrying the 11lbs anchor! I took the 375 Alaskan on a moose hunt this year and for me it is the ultimate alaskan rifle! It has a rubberized hogue stock and is stainless steel! On this moose hunt we had 10 days of driving rain which had no effect on the rifle what so ever! With the RSM it would have been a big problem! The only down side I do see with the Alaskan is I am only able to get 2650fps out of the 20" barrel with a 270gr TSX. With the RSM I had no trouble getting 2750fps! | |||
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Old Coyote, $799.95 for a CZ that holds six rounds, and has a set trigger...which I love on all of mine. Rich DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost... | |||
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Obviously you're entitled to your views and I appreciate your candor. Can you tell me why people have such a low opinion of Ruger rifles? -+-+- "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Slug: Can you tell me why people have such a low opinion of Ruger rifles?[QUOTE] No, I cannot speak for all the others. In fact, at least on the AR forum, the overwhelming opinion is positive. I can only speak for myself. Not counting this new model rifle and new cartridge, I read oh so many times, that the real reason a Rooger was bought was the bottom line: cheap price. That goes for their handguns as well. But that's just me. I count myself lucky that my state and country allow me to have dozens of choices other than Ruger. BTW, I don't shop at Wal-Mart either. | |||
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In the late 1950's all the folks with 300H&H rifles were predicting that the 300 Win Mag would never make it as it couldn't do anything that their beloved H&H couldn't. After a full season of alternating carrying both versions of the 375 Ruger I have not changed my opinion that they are the best build and performing factory DGR avaliable. I have seen a lot of custom rifles that didn't perform half as well in accuracy or reliability. When a hunter or guide askes my opinion about which rifle to buy for big bears my first suggestion from now on will be the 375 Ruger. If you havn't tried them - don't knock them. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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IF I was going buy a 375 from Ruger, it would be the 375 Ruger. But with that being said I am having a 9.3x64 Brenneke being built to go with my 416 Rigby. | |||
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My state and OUR country allows me to also purchase any brand rifle I choose. I guess I'm just a little more open-minded. Rugers aren't the least expensive major brand. I've never chosen a hunting arm based on price as the prime reason. Value however is high among my deciding factors. -+-+- "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama | |||
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I think a lot of people have more of a philosophical difference with Ruger the man, and it spills over to not supporting his company. Back around the early 'eighties, it is alleged that Ruger tried to buy S&W and that their (S&W) management used them as a tool to get the price raised to sell to the plumbers. Ruger retaliated by supporting a ban on magazine capacity over 15 rounds, which, IIRC, was his P85 capacity. S&W's held one or two more rounds. I heard that he testified before Congress or a committee. Really irritated a lot of folks. He also had a thing with not always offering all models to the public, remember how hard it was to even get a look at his Ranch Rifles? I have had several people ask me why they had to buy a CZ to get a 505 Gibbs, any rifle magazine box that will take a 416 Rigby is ten minutes away from being a 505 Gibbs. Where are they? Ruger was brilliant, and an innovator, and his now company-by-committee is losing the edge a bit. The prices Ruger used to have were less than Remingchester for a number of years. They pioneered the use of castings, and basically revived the lost wax process. They were bargain priced, and the tang safety bolt rifles are among my favorites to build on, or own. They supposedly used Wilson or Crescent barrels, and quality varied. Their firearms, to me, are bulky and the autopistols all feel like I am holding a brick. Not much balance or real pointability. Their SA revolvers: now we're talking! Absolutely the best, and brute strength and tuneability are their strong points. Today, the rifles just do not strike a chord with me...I've become a CZ fan. The 375 Ruger may be a great cartridge, but I really like the looks of the old 375H&H. If I feel I need more power, I'll just grab my CZ 416 Rigby. When I get to Africa, I'll likely take the CZ 375 and my 550 Gibbs. Not much I can't do with those two. Unless, of course, Ruger starts selling the RSM in the Gibbs line. Rich DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost... | |||
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Lets not cut off our noses to spite our faces. Bill Ruger is dead and the new Ruger 375 appears to have all the features of a truly great hunting rifle. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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You left out ,and feals like a club. CZ are the worse when it comes to balance and feal. Go some where that has mutiple H&Hs you will see that the CZ sucks. DR B | |||
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Phil, just posting what may be an issue for some. I am not saying they are not a quality product, or ever were not. Rich DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost... | |||
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Dr B, handling and heft and balance are subjective; just like some people say the girls at Hooters are all top-heavy and would make poor ballet dancers... I'm five-foot, fourteen inches tall, and two hundred-forty five pounds I consider CZ's more on the Adrienne Barbeau or Suzanne Sommers frame. They (all three) feel about right to me. But then, I never figured out how the average US Infantryman of 1880, at 5'6" and 140lbs, could pack a Trapdoor all day, and today's generation of hunters would collapse if they had to pack it a mile. I guess they just knew how to sling a rifle over one shoulder and get after it. I carried an M-203 in 'Nam, up to 15-20 klicks some days, and wore a vest with 48 rounds of M-79 ammunition and ten 30-round magazines for the M-16 part. I doubt I was Superman then, just the biggest one on my six man Ranger Team. Besides, a good gunsmith like Marc_Stokeld who posts here can make it slimmer much less expensively than he can make yours heftier. Ever held a Ruger RSM...now that's hefty. Rich DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost... | |||
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Thanks for the well-reasoned explanation. -+-+- "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama | |||
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   I just wish we all could get the advice of the other half of this endless discussion.....which BTW is throwing another log on the fire. How eye opening it would be to have the four footed creatures tell us if they find being hit by a 375 Ruger vastly different than with a 375 H&H with the same weight bullet. So there's 6% difference in velocity b/t the two. IMO, this is no big deal. But what the hell do I know? Zero as all of us do. Take it a step further: If you want to talk the talk, you should walk the walk. So who amoung us will stand up to volunteer? Ask the cop or criminal who's wearing a bullet proof vest how different it is being hit with a 9mm or a 45. Fodder of course???? Then throw in velocity, bullet weight, and where the bullet strikes to add to the equation....Wow. Somehow I get the feeling that "what's the best bullet for" or "what's the best rifle for" is like women discussing what the best color finger nail polish is to go out into the field. Don't get me wrong here but I sure wish our fun discussions could be embelished by the creatures that really have the inside track.  | |||
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There is absolutely no difference on game between the 375 Ruger and the 375 H&H. Even the difference in feeding and performance on the range is more perceived than real. The differences between the H&H and the Ruger are all minor - but in the real world when hunting dangerous game - take it from someone with over a quarter of a century of experience - they do make a difference. Why do you think the 300 Win supplanted the 300 H&H ? It certainly is not because it hits harder. The 375 Ruger is an exteamly well designed cartridge in a very well executed rifle. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Yes I have, I bought one last spring, put 7 rounds through it and then sold it. even though I sold it I would rather the RSM than a CZ. I replaced the RSM with a Whitworth, much nicer feal. DR B | |||
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Thanks for paraphrasing me Idahochukar2:
And Ruger responded with the RSM also. The first and second generation RSM's in .416 Rigby were 10.75-pounders with .820" diameter at the 24" muzzle. The third generation RSM slimmed its barrel to .750" at the 23" muzzle and weight down to 9.5 pounds. That is almost same weight as the CZ .416 Rigby with .670" diameter at the 25" muzzle (9.25 lbs for my Hogback). My CZ .416 Rigby has the balance of an original John Rigby or H&H-made rifle. Yes I have handled one of those, Ronnie McFarlane's J.Rigby. Truly, the .375 Ruger Hawkeye African is a way better rifle than any Pre-64 Winchester M70 in .375 H&H. The Hawkeye is 7.75 pounds of perfection, needing only a glass bedding job to be a DGR. How do you like that fingernail polish? | |||
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375 H&H. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke don't try to fix it. | |||
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I've shot several bears with the 375 H&H. One bear withe the 375 Ruger. They all did the same thing/. Fall down. But the 375 Ruger does offer a few advantages to some people.. The 375 Ruger is a good, even great cartridge. The H&H s a fine one too. As always, people get hung up on the idea that a new cartridge isn't necessarily about how BAD the old cartridge is- It' about how GOOD the new cartridge can be.  I have, many times seen people show great disdain for a new cartridge. However, I rarely see a proponent of the new one talk badly about the old.I have a 300WSM, and I like it. I've also had 30-06, 300WM, and they are fine cartridges too. I see no need to discredit anything old, but there is always someone ready to discredit something new. *Why* these things need to be some competition, I dont understand. Some newer cartridegs have features that appeal to some people. Some of them don't. Use what you like. All cartridges, at one point..Were NEW. 375 Ruger- The NEW KING of the .375's!! | |||
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I made the choice and bought the H&H. I got one in a CZ. I dont have anything against Ruger rifles because I have never shot one. I didnt have much knowledge of the Ruger cartridge before the purchase, but with all of the debate that still rages on over the sort mags and other new cartridges lately, I didnt want to step out on a limb and buy something I wasnt familiar with instead of a proven round. Some dislike the CZ and the RSM for being heavy, but both rifles also are used to build larger cartridges on as well. The CZ also had a few features that I think are important to have on a DGR. | |||
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| Moderator |
bill ruger is dead, there are no major stock holders in the ruger family, the company has doubled in wall street since this happened, the rsm lost weight, they have brought out the 024 and 375 ruger since, and are making smaller (more like colt) sa pistols... i've built several guns on the platform.. my biggest complaint is the stock, in that the wood line is below the loading port. when they stopped making PUSH FEED rifles,(which all tang safeties are) and offered a true CRF that could be loaded over the top, well, they beat everyone at the game. ya'll keep bad mouthing the m77mkII swing safety.. keeps the price down... if price was the driving factor, we would all be shooting charles daly mauser actions, as they had been cheaper than even savages for YEARS it's a matter of choice, and until ya'll give me the money to spend, i'll spend my money my way opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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