I built this gun quite a few years back, found a load of 4895 that shoots 325 gr rounds at 2500 FPS and put it in the safe.

Next summer I'm off to Africa. The PH wants me to bring an '06 for Leopard and a 375 or above for everything else as there are Elephant in the area we'll be in.

My choices without building or buying new are a 378 Wby with a brake or this .411.

I want to use the .411 but I want to move up to NorthFork 360gr. I have been using H4895 as that is what I used with the 325's.

Any ideas for alternate powders and starting loads?

If your cartridge is based on the full length 2.8" Ultramag case, then a slower powder would be more suitable than 4895. Something in the range of 4350 should work quite well.

I have Norma 204 and 4831 around. The 204 is closer to 4350 but I have seen some 4831 loads for .416 Ultra. The .416 loads seem pretty hot ie 103 grains of 4831. The 416 Dakota load for a 400grain load is 102 grains of 4831. Could one consider 80 grains a reasonable place to start for either 204 and 4831.

Paddles10,

My QuickLOAD program quit working.
But my .408/.338 Lapua Magnum ( 120.0 grains H2O case capacity) would be a good approximation of your .411/.375 RUM,
assuming you have the full-length RUM case.

You want to use the .411/360-grain North Fork in your .411 UM, right?
I have used the .408/370-grain GSC HV in my .408/.338 LM, now called the "10.4 Spiridon Moor."

Since your bore is .003" bigger, and bullet weight 10 grains lighter, and case capacity near identical to mine,
your cartridge ought to handle my loads safely.
Pressures will be lower for any given powder charge in your rifle than in mine.

All the data below is based on a 25" barrel length, using a rifle with 3.8" magazine box length.
The HV bullet is long and pointy, so a stubby North Fork might fit in a 3.6" COL with similar net case capacity.
Note also that the GSC HV start pressure was assumed to be 1100 PSI.
Your mileage may vary, of course,
as do powder lots,
but IMHO, a 10% reduction of my maximum loads would be a good starting place in your rifle.

Mine: .408/370-gr GSC HV, 3.800" COL
QuickLOAD

Norma 204 96.9 grains (105% volumetric fill) >>> 2680 fps <<< 63,817 PSI (98.8% propellant burn)

IMR-4831 91.8 grains (107% volumetric fill) >>> 2576 fps <<< 55,720 PSI (100% propellant burn)

10% reduction for YOUR start:

Norma 204: 87.2 grains starting load
IMR-4831: 82.6 grains starting load

Work up to maximum in your rifle.
Looks like you are very safe with IMR-4831, low pressure, lower than what I show above, most likely.
But which powder shoots most accurately in your rifle?

H4350 would be my pick.

Mine: .408/370-gr GSC HV, 3.800" COL
QuickLOAD

H4350 94.2 grains (106% volumetric fill) >>> 2702 fps <<< 63,817 PSI (100% propellant burn)

Actual shooting and chronographing of H4350 in the 10.4 Spiridon Moor:
370-grain GSC HV with 3.795" COL
H4350 92.0 grains >>> 2601 fps (5-yard chrono velocity, 5-shot average)
3 of those 5 shots went into 0.708" at 100 yards.
I pulled the other two, Kentucky Windage.


H4350 is an "Extreme" powder with good THERMO-BALLISTIC-INDEPENDENCE.
I like that.
Your starting load of H4350: 84.8 grains
and work up to maximum in your rifle.

Rip
.

Paddles 10 ;
Is your 411 built on the full length Remington Ultra Mag cast ? Or the Short Action Ultra Mag case ??

It is on a full length case. I found that the volume is 105 grains of water. We just put a .411 pilot on the reamer nothing else changed.

quote:

Originally posted by Paddles10:
It is on a full length case. I found that the volume is 105 grains of water. We just put a .411 pilot on the reamer nothing else changed.

105 grains of water?
That sounds small, unless you are talking about a net case capacity with a bullet seated.

You cannot trust just looking up the "relative" or "estimated" case capacities of various sources. They all seem to widely differ.

Have you actually measured the gross/over-flow water capacity of your cases, based on Remington brass I presume?

IIRC, from my actual brass fillings and weighings:

.375 RUM, Remington brass, 2.850" brass length
and
.375/.338 Lapua Magnum, Lapua brass, 2.700" brass length

Both are about 120 grains gross water capacity, and I seem to recall the RUM brass was a little bigger if there was any difference, only a grain.

If you are simply necking up a .375 RUM or .300 RUM to .411 RUM,
the case capacity ought to be a little bigger than 120 grains +/- 1 grain.

You did more than simply put a .411 pilot on a full length RUM reamer to do the case body of your .411 RUM chamber.

So, what sort of neck and throat reamer did you use to finish off the chambering?
Just in general, please.
I am not prying for any top secret throat length.
Like with Saeed's original .375/404 Jeffery "cosmic squirrel secret" throat specs,
I shall respect your .411 RUM secrecy if you wish.

Rip
.

Nothing secret.
This was an extra piece of .411 octagon barrel stock, a Columbian Mauser action and a weekend off in Fred Wells' shop.
"What can we do with this?" "Well a fella might put a pilot on a 300 ultra reamer and chamber it."

That was it. I'll weigh a couple of cases and check on H2O volume.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Paddles10:
It is on a full length case. I found that the volume is 105 grains of water. We just put a .411 pilot on the reamer nothing else changed.

105 grains of water?
That sounds small, unless you are talking about a net case capacity with a bullet seated.

You cannot trust just looking up the "relative" or "estimated" case capacities of various sources. They all seem to widely differ.

Have you actually measured the gross/over-flow water capacity of your cases, based on Remington brass I presume?

IIRC, from my actual brass fillings and weighings:

.375 RUM, Remington brass, 2.850" brass length
and
.375/.338 Lapua Magnum, Lapua brass, 2.700" brass length

Both are about 120 grains gross water capacity, and I seem to recall the RUM brass was a little bigger if there was any difference, only a grain.

If you are simply necking up a .375 RUM or .300 RUM to .411 RUM,
the case capacity ought to be a little bigger than 120 grains +/- 1 grain.

You did more than simply put a .411 pilot on a full length RUM reamer to do the case body of your .411 RUM chamber.

So, what sort of neck and throat reamer did you use to finish off the chambering?
Just in general, please.
I am not prying for any top secret throat length.
Like with Saeed's original .375/404 Jeffery "cosmic squirrel secret" throat specs,
I shall respect your .411 RUM secrecy if you wish.

Rip
.

You are correct Sir. Three cases average 120.2 +/-.

Well then, have at it with my starting loads for your .411 RUM above.

Another good idea is H4831 or H4831-SC for 400-grain bullets if buffalo and elephant are considered.

My .410/404 Jeffery Rimless Nitro Eclipse has a case capacity of 113.8 grains of water in Hornady brass.
That takes 95 grains of H4831 to get the 400-grainers just over 2400 fps.
With your 6+ extra grains of case capacity
and your .001" bigger bore diameter,
You might consider an 86.0-grain starting charge of H4831
for whatever .411/400-grainer you like.
Anything from 2300 to 2450 fps with 400-grainers would be plenty,
whatever shoots best in your rifle.

Rip
.

In my 400H&H I use H4895 for 300gr bullets and Varget or RL15 for 360,370 and 400gr bullets

quote:

Originally posted by Paddles10:
Nothing secret.
This was an extra piece of .411 octagon barrel stock, a Columbian Mauser action and a weekend off in Fred Wells' shop.
"What can we do with this?" "Well a fella might put a pilot on a 300 ultra reamer and chamber it."

Sir, I resemble those remarks.
I have a 30"-long, .408"-grooved, octagon, 1:16" twist barrel. It is just waiting for something like that.

You still have not told us the neck and throat reamer used to create your wildcat.
400 H&H?
405 WCF?
Custom .411 neck and throat reamer?

Rip
.

Rip...
That barrel with that length is screaming 408 CT on a Ruger #1. Tank muzzle breaks look so good with those English lines of the #1

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Paddles10:
Nothing secret.
This was an extra piece of .411 octagon barrel stock, a Columbian Mauser action and a weekend off in Fred Wells' shop.
"What can we do with this?" "Well a fella might put a pilot on a 300 ultra reamer and chamber it."

Sir, I resemble those remarks.
I have a 30"-long, .408"-grooved, octagon, 1:16" twist barrel. It is just waiting for something like that.

You still have not told us the neck and throat reamer used to create your wildcat.
400 H&H?
405 WCF?
Custom .411 neck and throat reamer?

Rip
.

Sorry, 405 WCF. This is early 90's I don't think the H & H was around then. I'd post a picture of the rifle and a round if I could figure out how.

boomstick,

Maybe.

Paddles10,

If you want me to post a couple of pics for you, send me a PM.

Rip
.

Ron the Riper...Think of all those long pretty bullets you can stick way out of the case on the #1. No Mag length restrictions!!!

Boomer,
The 1:16" twist is too slow for those long pointy bullets.
It would have to be a cast-bullet .408 Chey-Tac.

Might as well just make it 10.4 Spiridon Moor, and save on powder and filler,
or one of those old Sharps 40-cals.
Fix up the Ruger No.1 like a Speedmore Creedmoor.
Soule sight where the tang safety is.
Who needs a safety?
The rifle is safe when the lever is open,
or when the lever is closed on an empty chamber.
What could be safer?

Rip
.

Velocity can make up for some twist. Maybe an old school black powder puffing lead chucker set up Creemoor style could be old school cool.
Or if you are feeling odd ball, a 401 WSL with that diameter will work for squirrel and hole punching paper.

Barrel Twist Rate and Muzzle Velocity - The Relationship

RIP, we have a hunting bullet for that 1:16" .408" barrel. The bullet weighs 335gr and is good from 1600fps to 3200fps.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Barrel Twist Rate and Muzzle Velocity - The Relationship

RIP, we have a hunting bullet for that 1:16" .408" barrel. The bullet weighs 335gr and is good from 1600fps to 3200fps.

Hooray!
Gerard is alive!

Here in the USA working for CHEYTAC USA?

Hitting 1.0 x 0.5-meter steel at 1-mile with first shot?


Gerard I have a bunch of those .408/335-grain HVs.
Excellent in my 10.4 Spiridon Moor (.408/.338 Lop'Wah Magnum) BRNO ZKK 602,
as well as my .408 Chey-Tac MRC PH,
both having 1:13" twist.

I am certainly considering a Ruger No.1 installation of that spare .408/1:16" barrel.

However, what I really "need":

I am trying to order some .458/400-grain HV bullets from GSC-USA website by email and getting no response.

Can you help with that?

Rip
.

PM Sent.

Hitting at one mile with a rifle I built is a rush, for sure. This is a video of the previous weekend we shot this rifle. https://youtu.be/2U_2_OJdwYY

RIP
Just get a pipe wrench on the muzzle and turn a few times to make a gain twist barrel
You could do and old school Creedmoor set up but shoot the 408CT
If you don't like it then chop off a few inches and go BP or this... https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...dcore-solid-box-of-5
450/400 3 1/4" (.408 diameter)

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
boomstick,

Maybe.

Paddles10,

If you want me to post a couple of pics for you, send me a PM.

Rip
.

www.makenaridge.com/411.jpeg
www.makenaridge.com/411.2.jpeg
www.makenaridge.com/411.3.jpeg

Try these

Gerard, if you are still on here.

Do you have a 10.3 bullet for the 10,3x68 RWS and 10,3x60R Graubünden cartridges?

Will the .413 and .411 (405 WCF) cross over work?

Now that is a rifle that belongs in anyone's dream. That dark wood is striking.

quote:

Originally posted by Paddles10:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Paddles10,
If you want me to post a couple of pics for you, send me a PM.
Rip
.

www.makenaridge.com/411.jpeg
www.makenaridge.com/411.2.jpeg
www.makenaridge.com/411.3.jpeg

Try these

So you got them posted.
That rifle is very nice.

Rip ...

Wow!! Beautiful rifle and an impressive looking cartridge, Nice,,

Yep, a beauteous thing:

Paddles10's .411 UltraMag:








Rip ...