I thought I'd post a picture of the target I shot today.It was shot with my older lott.I used 500gr Hornady DGX,molly coated bullets and H4895.I recently got an import permit for a bunch of 405gr remington bullets and some Norma cases.I hope to have some fun shooting at the range this year.[URL= ]100yds[/URL]

I don't think I could see a target at 100 yards open sights, much less hit it.

What you need to find out is why you got a shift in your group. Core group is good, you need a little more follow through. Down and left is change in body position, you natural point of aim is off or a flinch. There are several charts that show why a miss goes where it does. You need to dry fire more and follow through. you got a 3 moa change in the two groups so it was/t wind or light unless you were shooting in a huricane. You have improved a lot, now you need to get serious about getting to the next level. You could very well become a good shoot.

JD

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I don't think I could see a target at 100 yards open sights, much less hit it.

Mike,I was thinking of your vid-the one with the ele charge.Did you ever consider having a painting made of that scene.I think that would really look nice.

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
What you need to find out is why you got a shift in your group. Core group is good, you need a little more follow through. Down and left is change in body position, you natural point of aim is off or a flinch. There are several charts that show why a miss goes where it does. You need to dry fire more and follow through. you got a 3 moa change in the two groups so it was/t wind or light unless you were shooting in a huricane. You have improved a lot, now you need to get serious about getting to the next level. You could very well become a good shoot.

JD

JD,my eyesight is good but it might not be good enough or ever been good enough to clearly see the target at 100yds.The orange circle is never clear and at times I see it a little higher or lower or left or right.I have an easier time on sunny days.There are shots that go off when the bead is near but not on the bullseye.With the cheap bullets on order,hopefully I can get more practice.The thing that made a big difference in my shooting was the new position I use to place the rifle on my shoulder.

I would like to add that the trigger on the Ruger seems to have too much slack.I think that I would shoot better with the trigger Ralph Martini put on my CZ.Also,the Ruger that I was using is not capable of tight multi shot groups.

Typically when bullets land low and left it means a right handed shooter is squeezing with the whole hand rather than pulling the trigger finger straight back.

465H&H

ScottS
Posted 10 October 2010 16:03 Hide Post
b,
I guess it is simply time for me to discontinue posting here at AR as you will never stop calling me a liar no matter what I do. So having said that I will go. You win Robert, enjoy.

Maybe some day I will make it to a hoot and shoot and you all can see just how big an a-hole I really am. May tie me up on the 25 yard line and take turns taking pop shots at me that oughta be fun, eh?

So you get mad because you shit talk people but when you get called out on your bs and your clear lies and some mental or emotional issue pretty sad

Plus ive read your post your the expert here right why not teach us all how to shoot scotty.Plus why do you always bring up RGB everytime you post maybe hideing a deep seeded crush ???

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I don't think I could see a target at 100 yards open sights, much less hit it.

MJines

I know damn well I can't! Man, it's hell getting into the 50s! I used to do a lot of handgun shooting when I was younger. Be at the range with some of the older guys, and they would not be shooting so good, claiming eyesight. I used to think to myself, "Yeah Right, You just can't F*^$*&G can't shoot". Well Guess What? I can't see the front sight anymore, and now I am one of those poor bastards! HEH. I'm at the in between stage it seems, with glasses I can see the front sight, but can't see the target. Without the glasses I can see the target, but can't see the front sight. I suppose my iron days further than 25 yds with a rifle are done. Even 50 yds is out, unless it's a BIG target!

Shootaway, That's a 100 yds, irons, that's not shabby pal! Now since this is 458 Lott, qualifies as big bore, why don't you do some 50 yd shooting? Big Bores are all about 50 yds and in to me. Of course yes, on occasion one may need to do some 100 yd work in the field, and I have, but the vast majority of the time it's 50 and in. It's rare I take the big bores to 100.

Michael

Here is the target that I put up a couple of feet next to the one above.I used my newer and more accurate Ruger to shoot this offhand group.It was shot at the same time switching rifles between each 4 shot string.Having done this test before with the same results,one can see that the older Ruger shoots better than the newer one,offhand.Upon inspection of the cases after firing,the ones shot from the new Ruger where slightly dented and flattened around the neck.I had mentioned this last year and thought the issue was caused by the magazine box that would not stay in place and make a sharp edge with the feed ramp.After changing the mag box and smoothing out the edge the issue persists.Only recently did I notice that the follower in each rifle was shaped differently even though they were both original and stamped 375.From the looks of it,the follower in the new Ruger is driving the magazine of rounds into the small hole on the underside of the bolt-the hole you could see the firing pin through.I ordered a new follower and hope to get the issue finally solved.[URL= ]target 2 rounds damaged[/URL]

Michael,I sometimes shoot at 50yds and at 25yds.I enjoy shooting at all distances,sometimes at 200yds.I use to shoot my scoped 308 offhand at 200yds all the time.I guess I saw 100yds as the next step.I feel it would be smart for me to be able to shoot well,offhand at least up to 150yds.Going on a single african hunt every two or three years,what if I don't get the opportunity to take a shot at a buff,lion or sable up close in the jesse at 25-50yds? Should I return home empty handed and wait another three years? Taking a good shot at game at 100yds offhand with iron sights may be not be all that bad if you feel you have accomplished something.

Given the amount of time you spend and the fact that your only improving slowly, Why don't you find the best SMALL BORE shooter/COACH in your club or better yet LOCAL AREA and pay him or her to teach you how to shoot? I never understand this Logic. I didn't learn to shoot myself, I had about 7 coaches and then spent years in competition shooting. If you can't shoot a .22LR into 2" at 100 yrds you sure as hell wont be able to do it with a .458 Lott. Thats for sure!

Rob,men don't shoot toy rifles and it has been a long time since I finished grade school.

Shootaway

Everyone has their own ideas, their own methods, practices. None neither right nor wrong, just different at times. A long time ago, in a far far away place (Sounds Good EH, like a story) HEH HEH--I was trained by some very good riflemen. These men were very experienced and top notch, first class champions, off the range, and on the range. So I think I was smart enough to keep my mouth shut and listen to what they had to tell me. To a man, each of them told me this, separately I might add, "The Mark of a Good Rifleman is the fact that He will take every opportunity to find and use a good solid rest in the field". Wow. I thought about this a lot, and those words ALWAYS stuck with me. So from the time I was a youngster until today, that's how I practice when getting ready for a hunt. Some of these "True Riflemen" were hunters of the most dangerous type of game.

Myself, I make no claims of even being a decent shot much less a "True Rifleman" that these men were. I do good enough to get by, but that's about all I can say or will say.

When getting ready for a hunt, I do some off hand shooting but it is all within 50 yds, and most at close range and timed, from 25 yds in. From 50, 75, sometimes a 100 yds I will shoot practice using sticks, trees, prone, sitting, any sort of field position I can find. I may just walk a few steps, and quickly find a way to get a more solid rest, if there is a tree, I will grab it and use it, if there is nothing and I can sit, I will do that. I don't have rocks here in SC Coastal Plains, but sometimes I use a back pack for that. Field Positions, finding the best rest possible within a few yard of my position and use it. If an animal is at 100 yds and you are hunting, under the vast majority of the time you have time and can find a rest of some sort. I have had very very few circumstances that getting a long shot in that was so important at 100 yds that I could not find a field position or rest of some sort. I had a kudu once, the biggest one I had ever taken, I think 58 inches, I was on top of the hill, he was walking a path below, A VERY LONG SHOT FOR ME. There was no trees, I forgot my shooting sticks, I had zero except my sling. I quickly just sit my ass down, wrapped in my sling and got steady on. I gave some elevation, just a guess and popped the kudu with a 280 gr Swift A from a 358 STA. Kudu when down. Shot on the shoulder busted both and out. Never moved again. Still did not know how far it was, but I was pretty damned proud of myself. Later when the crew arrived with my bag, I went back to my position and hit it with the range finder, 260 yds. WOW. But that was a very long long way for me. I would not have taken that shot standing, sitting I did ok. I would even today rather have a set of sticks, a tree, prone, something, anything that would have made it more steady. I believe completely in getting the best shooting solution possible, regardless. You can do this in the field and expedite if you practice. Sitting is better than standing, prone is better (yes you can go prone with a big bore-I have done so with 458 Lott Many times--But be careful is the key words) a good tree to lean into is great, nothing wrong with using shooting sticks either, I always carry a set of those. I like to sit with the sticks.

Well, that's me, that's what I do. Works for me.

Michael

Rifle shooting is an art and for myself that means shooting offhand with open sights.If the day comes and I can't see out that far or see my front sight well enough,I will limit myself to closer distances and use eyeglasses.The last thing I will do is use a scope and a rest when I know I could easily make the shot.

Shootaway

Shame on you! Nothing manly about shooting offhand! The "art" is making the shot and using all means within your power to do so. Not to stand and try to be a manly man by shooting offhand! HEH. I suppose you do use a sling correct?

Michael

No sling but will use a rest if I think I'll have difficulty in making the shot.

For myself,rifle shooting is an art in the same way ballet is an art.A rifleman should not use a scope or rest the same way a ballerina should not use a scateboard or roller skates and ladders.

Michael,

Real men do not use slings. They are not manly for shooting or carrying.

I will have to take you hunting and show you how it is done. Double rifle, no sling, carried on the shoulder, you remember the picture

I shot my Lott and 300 Whisper this morning. I believe in diversity.

Working offhand with the Lott (500 grain @ 2220) I was able to shoot fairly well at 50 yards with open sights. It does take more concentration. On a couple shots I caught myself anticipating the recoil (sounds better than flinching) and those shot were low right (I am left handed) in a straight line from the center of the target depending on the amount of anticipation. Proper sight alignment, breathing, trigger control, natural point of aim, etc and it is easy to place them in the center. My last several shots were extremely good.

To keep things in perspective, I refer back to NRA High Power rifle competition. The SR target 10 Ring is 3.35" and 7" at 100 and 200 yards repsectively. Very seldom have I seen anybobody clean either a 10 or 20 round match standing. This is with match rifles, jackets, gloves, etc. I am even refering to national matches with the military teams.

IMO at 100 yards if you can shoot 10 rounds in a 6" circle on the center of the target you are doing fine and far better the most shooters.

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
What you need to find out is why you got a shift in your group.
JD

Perhaps I am a wuss, (actually, no doubt about it) but if I shot that many rounds from a lott, I'm sure I would start pulling shots all over the place.

Well if you don't like small bores get a COACH to teach you how to shoot Big Bores. Do you really think that one day your gonna magically get up and shoot real small groups without serious training? I like open sight shooting too in fact prefer it. Whenever I run into someone who shoots better than me, I ask if they would be interested in teaching me what they have learned. Most of these guys actually enjoy it and so do I. The best money you'll ever spend on shooting is a coach!-Rob

quote:

For myself,rifle shooting is an art in the same way ballet is an art.A rifleman should not use a scope or rest the same way a ballerina should not use a scateboard or roller skates and ladders.

Shootaway

I don't have an artistic molecule in my entire body, So I ain't no Artist! Take the "rifeman" part of your sentence out, as I said, I "rifleman" will use "every" asset, or take every opportunity to make the shot.

Mike and Shootaway

A sling is for shooting, not for carrying! Call me a girl please! I ain't no real man as I use a sling, scope, and every rest I can find, tree, sticks, rocks, packs, dirt, sling always, ONLY 1 RIFLE AT A TIME-Not two as in "Bubble", I mean "DOUBLE", typo HEH HEH. And by the way Mr. MIKE--Where is my new updated photo of the "GREAT WHITE HUNTER" in his shorts, double rifle over the shoulder, and "dark Glasses" EH????? Time for a new one I think! Of course, it is really gonna be hard to beat the old version! Classic you might say! If you did not do one, I can't believe you would do me that way? After all we have been through?

You boys got to realize, ain't no rules in fighting, war, and shooting. Use your ass--assets!

Call it cheating if you want to.

HEH HEH!!!!

Michael

Sling, scope and cheating every step of the way! That's me!

Rob,all I can say is that I believe I am going about it in the best way possible given the circumstances.My goal is to shoot as a hobby during part of the free time I have.I don't want to achieve any goal in particular.

Michael,a rifleman uses a rifle.A scope and a rest are not part of a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Michael,a rifleman uses a rifle.A scope and a rest are not part of a rifle.

Look here you crazy Canadian! Down here in South Carolina, we take a big black roll of duct tape and put the scope on and if you know what duct tape is then you will damn sure know that it becomes part of the rifle from then on! So it is the rifle from then on!

quote:

And by the way Mr. MIKE--Where is my new updated photo of the "GREAT WHITE HUNTER" in his shorts, double rifle over the shoulder, and "dark Glasses" EH????? Time for a new one I think! Of course, it is really gonna be hard to beat the old version! Classic you might say! If you did not do one, I can't believe you would do me that way? After all we have been through?

A little more artsy with the sunset. I did not wear my short shorts that day.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Rob,men don't shoot toy rifles and it has been a long time since I finished grade school.

George

I can't help but think you just called me out! I shoot a lot more with my toy rifles when I am tuneing up than I do with the big bore both for speed and group. Bubba I don't think you can hang with me, I let you use a 30 30 againts my 470 [full house loads for both), I even put the scope on to handi cap my self just a little. 25 yards 2 dangerous water jugs fastest man wins dinner. You will need to beat 1.5 seconds to have a chance , at the last shoot and hoot I did it in 1.4 I have done it in 1.2 with my peep sighted Merkel.I am not bragging about the times just giving you something to train for. Come on down this spring.

JD

Thanks,JD.I'll try and make it if I have a shoulder left by then.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

And by the way Mr. MIKE--Where is my new updated photo of the "GREAT WHITE HUNTER" in his shorts, double rifle over the shoulder, and "dark Glasses" EH????? Time for a new one I think! Of course, it is really gonna be hard to beat the old version! Classic you might say! If you did not do one, I can't believe you would do me that way? After all we have been through?

A little more artsy with the sunset. I did not wear my short shorts that day.

Mike

I Had Faith! I knew you would not let me down!!!!!!!

Just Excellent!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Thanks,JD.I'll try and make it if I have a shoulder left by then.

Try'n at going to cut it, it's a contest, a southern gentleman (1/2 frenchmen/irishmen { That means I am 1/2 ass instead of coonass} against a Canuck ( I hope thats not bad or spelled wrong). Anyway It's on, you been slaped ,we will need a Oaktree.

JD

OK JD its on.This time I'll bring my rifle and ammo.Why will we need an oaktree? Maybe Rob and Michael will want be there too? Rob can teach us all how to shoot and Michael will show us what to use.I hope Scott comes too.I am sure he shoots well and will put on some show.Then there's 465H&H-he must be another good shooter.

It's a southern traditon all matters of honor are settledd under the dualing oaks. With swords or single shot pistols. If you were offended you would slap them with a white glove and meet under the oaks to settle the matter.
JD

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
Plus ive read your post your the expert here right why not teach us all how to shoot scotty.Plus why do you always bring up RGB everytime you post maybe hideing a deep seeded crush ???

wth are you bablbling about? Shootaway is not scottS

your a little late jeff scott posted and appears to deleted his post. his post in a nutshell was how Robgunbuilder claims to be an expert shot with a 500 class rifle etc and then went on his rant and rave then when I posted he said he would not return and did I want to teach him how to shoot a expressed sight 500 a-2 to 2 moa groups at 300 yards which I never claimed I could

shootaway

As a fella that has done a little offhand shooting at 100 yards and farther looks like you are doing plenty good to me.

However I have an idea for you, try this.
Get a deer target, one that looks like a real deer. Aim on the deer as you would if really hunting.

I know guys that can shoot under one inch off a bench, but they could not commit suicide in a phone booth offhand.

Thats a nice group for shooting off hand.

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
Thats a nice group for shooting off hand.

Thanks,jro45.I went back to the range today with both rifles and took the follower from one and put it in the other.It solved the issue.For the first time since I ever shot the rifle,it did not damage the cases.The newer Ruger shot 6 rds within 3 inches, 4 of which were almost touching.The rifle needed a couple to settle since it was already fouled up in a certain way.The offhand group printed off the target paper, 7 inches to the left and 4 inches low.Finally, I see that good groups are possible offhand,with open sights at 100yds.I have a .3000 new front sight coming in that will lift the POI and then all I need to do is move the rear sight to the right. The older Ruger needs a cleaning to get back its accuracy and even then it is not capable of doing much better than what you see on the target above-it's bore seems really used up.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
Thats a nice group for shooting off hand.

Thanks,jro45.I went back to the range today with both rifles and took the follower from one and put it in the other.It solved the issue.For the first time since I ever shot the rifle,it did not damage the cases.The newer Ruger shot 6 rds within 3 inches, 4 of which were almost touching.The rifle needed a couple to settle since it was already fouled up in a certain way.The offhand group printed off the target paper, 7 inches to the left and 4 inches low.Finally, I see that good groups are possible offhand,with open sights at 100yds.I have a .3000 new front sight coming in that will lift the POI and then all I need to do is move the rear sight to the right. The older Ruger needs a cleaning to get back its accuracy and even then it is not capable of doing much better than what you see on the target above-it's bore seems really used up.

I'm glad it worked out for you. Thats the load I use.