I have a question concerning the 400 whelen. I don't want to get into headspace issues of this round only the killing power.
What would you consider the largest or dangerous game you would take with this round?
Reason is, I came into a left hand .30 06 and was thinking of rebarreling it. No need for .35 or 375 whelen as I have a .376 steyr.
Thinking the 400 might make a dandy close range rifle for bigger game.

if you do a search on 400 whelen and the variants 400 brown whelen, 400 whelen a.i., 411 express and 400 hawk you will see that it can kill anything that walks and has.

if you use the 9,3x62, 9,3x66 or 6.5x65 brass you can go up to .416 and not lose a round or mess with the bolt face. good luck!

I've got the 411 Hawk version of the Whelen, and honestly, I'd like to use mine on Cape Buffalo given the chance, though I have another that is much better suited. No question the cartridge with the right bullets is good enough for anything on this continent. It's what I carry for bear protection when working in the field.

Not sure I'd use it on Rhino or Elephant, though I probably would if that was all I had and couldn't get anything more appropriate. If I were a rich man, I'd try to do a safari with multiples of buff and ele to see what the killing effect differences would be between the Hawk (or Whelen) and something like a 416 Remmy.

consider, if you will, a .400/.416 on the 9.3x64 Brennecke. This 2.52" long case measures .506" at the base and is only .020" bigger on the rim than the '06 based cartridges. Allowing for .020" taper would give you .486" at the shoulder, and provide about .025" per side shoulder and use a 32-degree shoulder angle. Or, the 416 Newton. Jamison is making a run of brass and it mikes .52x" body diameter. Check the posts.

Rich

Wannabe's want to believe a .400 whelen like a 45/70 is good enough for Buff. Of course it pays to have actually shot one at close range. I suspect opinions would change as would their underwear! Bad decision. Lie down and wait for it to go away!. Good cartridge for deer and bear and African antelopes of all sizes. There are too many better caliber choices for DG. Just ask anyone who has ever really hunted them.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by David Craig:
I have a question concerning the 400 whelen. I don't want to get into headspace issues of this round only the killing power.
What would you consider the largest or dangerous game you would take with this round?
Reason is, I came into a left hand .30 06 and was thinking of rebarreling it. No need for .35 or 375 whelen as I have a .376 steyr.
Thinking the 400 might make a dandy close range rifle for bigger game.

Which rifle? If you can do it, go for the 416 Newton. It's essentially this necked to 416.
Or a wildcat 416 based on this

Both will meet or exceed the 416 Taylor, which is enough.

Don't piss around with "maybe". Take the advice of those who were there. I am arming myself with a 416 Rigby for when the time comes for a Safari.

quote:

Just ask anyone who has ever really hunted them.-Rob

There have been many testimonials of actual experience killing cape buffalo and ele with the 9.3 X 62 that one could make the bridge to the 400 whelen easily. Same for the 35 Whelen!

I'll hold on to the 375 H&H however!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Just ask anyone who has ever really hunted them.-Rob

Sir, we do know that the .400 Whelen duplicates the ballistics of the .450-.400 NE.
I understand John Taylor shot quite a few of everything in Africa with this caliber and praised it highly, even in close quarters. Todays bullets are a lot better than in Taylors days.
Or am I way off?

Thanks,

I took my 400 Whelen to Tanzania in August/September. It was the only rifle I brought too.

My rifle hung up in Customs for 24 hours (in Dar Es Salaam) due to the outfitter not getting my import permit filled out right, so on the first day of hunting I shot a buffalo with the PH's 458 Lott. I got the 400 Whelen back the next day.

I shot a hippo with it..one shot kill (brain shot). Would have shot a lion, but he had no mane and I passed on the shot.
It performed extremely well on everything I shot with it, although I wasn't able to take a buffalo with it (I did some extra buffalo hunting on the last full safari day, but no luck).

It duplicates the ballistics of the 450-400 (and bullet diameter too) in a magazine rifle.

I plan on taking it back to Africa next time I go.

One thing I learned about hippo hunting though (I was hunting them on land)....they are extremely fast in their retreat back to water.
My point being that even well shot in the heart by a .411 bullet, they will still likely make it to the river.
The 400 Whelen would certainly make a humane killing (heart) shot, but, if you really planned to drop the hippo on land (with a heart shot), and you're within 100 yards of the river (i.e. 5 to 6 seconds for a hippo), it would have to be a very powerful 500 or larger caliber to do the trick (excluding spine/brain shots of course).
I'm not even sure the 500 Jeffery would do it.

Garrett

Bent-If you can duplicate the .450-.400 ballistics with a .400 whelen (which I at least was not able to do with 410 gr woodleighs, then perhaps. I've owned two .400 whelens and never got a honest 2150fps from them and thats with a 24 inch barrel.If you can, then go for it! I still doubt you'd turn a Mbogo with one though if things went wrong. Good bear/deer/ plains game cartridge though.-Rob

Rob,
Did you have the original version with the .458 shoulder? And the factory loaded 450/400NE was with 400 grs bullets?

Anyway, what would be best medicine against the buff, a 400 grs bullet at 2150, or a 360 grs (North Fork, SD=.304) at 2250?

I have a .416 Newton & intend to use it for dangerous game. It has a fatter case than the .400 Whelan, better, more substantial shoulder and is a little bigger than the .416 Taylor, though pretty close to the .416 Taylor, and there are no flies on the Taylor. My problem with the .400 Whelan is the case, imho, is too small in volume for the .400 bore. Why limit yourself when its easier to step up some?
Tom

Bent- The .400 whelen and the .405 winchester are both cartridges that just fall short of making the grade as real Buff cartridges in my book. I own a .450-400 Jeffery double and frankly although its cool and light and shoots 1.5 inch groups at 100 yrds( yes thats true), I just would not feel comfortable with it on Buff when there are so many better calibers available. Oh I'm sure it would work on a undisturbed Buff( run off 100yrds and fall over), but just if things went wrong I'd want a bigger gun. I've always thought of a real buff gun starting as a .40 cal 410 grs bullet at an honest 2150 fps, with a sd of over .3. Personally, I've always felt that it was the combo of bullet weight, velocity and sd that made the .450-400 work. If it won't match that then I just find a bigger gun.
With that said.I have always really wanted a M11895 win in either the .400 whelen or .411 hawk, however, I know that at safe operating pressures, that neither will hit the 2150fps limit so I never pursued it further. In the two bolt guns I built in .400 whelen I had to go to extremely high pressures to even get close to 2100 fps so I gave up the quest. There is so little neck left on this cartidge that you can't even load the bullets out to get more powder capacity. Basically why bother( except for bragging rights) when .458 Lotts and .416 Rigby's are readily available for $1300 and will Hammer Buff class game right off the shelf. I suppose that if you went to a 26 inch tube with three groove rifling and loaded to 65 kpsi you just might get to honestly match the .450-400 with a bolt gun. Under those circunstances it should be ok assuming your PH had a thumper handy.-Rob

Rob,
Thanks for your time and answer.
My questions are based on my quest for a lightweight yet shootable rifle with an ample caliber above .40.

I guess I will have to go back to my original plan of 10,75x68.

Bent,

I own a 400 Whelen, the Ackley Improved version, and I disagree with Rob.

I found it perfectly adequate for big game (DG), accurate, and easy to load for.
And again, I found it easy to match ballistics with the 450-400 with AA2230 powder.

I wasn't impressed with 400 grain bullets at 2150 fps, and prefer the 350 grain solids at 2300 fps. Sectional density is of minimal importance with non-deoforming bullets.

You can certainly load the 10.75X68 hotter, but its harder to get brass for.

It's an excellent round.
Garrett

Gentlemen thanks for your replies. I have researched the issues on the 400 whelens headspace and believe if you use the original/correct headspace there are no problems.
When asking about killing power, I should have stated that I have no intentions of ever shooting a elephant or rhino for that matter, if my budget would ever allow me too, then I would have ample money to buy a classic double rifle fully suited for the task. I was however thinking of buffalo.
I was thinking of a switch barreled rifle, making one tube in 400 whelen and the other a 30-06 I would have a complete package rifle suited for my needs (mostly north american spieces).
Garrett, I am curious what is your rifles barrel lenght?
Lastly where can I find more information about the 416 Newton and how does it compare to the 416 Aagaard?

David,

I have a 23 inch barrel on mine.
I use that length on most of my hunting rifles, although the 500 Jeffery I am building is 22 inches.

Regards,
Garrett