Pictures are on the 500 AccR Nyati thread.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...581085191#6581085191

As for pressure testing, I meant relative load development tests with varying charges to be chronographed and cases inspected.

I basically intend to keep things under 7300ftlb., which might be difficult to reach with the H4895 powder. H335 might do it, but I would prefer the either H322, Benchmark, or H4895 for hunting loads. I only own H335 and H4895 and nothing is available within a two hour drive.

PS: you will find the 450 GSC HV to be an interesting improvement. It now sports a little boattail.

Question
The Ruger 1 is known for being strong and being able to go up to 577 NE but I know there is a huge diference in pressure between the 577 NE and the 408 CT. The chamber for the 408 CT is about .640" at the base but how much metal is left over? Could it handle 60+K PSI? Will you need to load out to keep pressures low? I'm sure that even at 50K PSI a sporting CT will be awesome.

416Tanzan,
Thanks for the pics of bullets on the other page.
Yes the new design looks like progress in action.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Question
The Ruger 1 is known for being strong and being able to go up to 577 NE but I know there is a huge diference in pressure between the 577 NE and the 408 CT. The chamber for the 408 CT is about .640" at the base but how much metal is left over?

A sufficient amount. The shank is 1.2" diameter for 4 inches of cylinder, except where threaded for the tenon, and that portion is screwed into the receiver "ring of steel."

Could it handle 60+K PSI?

Maybe.

Will you need to load out to keep pressures low?

Not possible with the standard throat for accuracy.

I'm sure that even at 50K PSI a sporting CT will be awesome.

Yes.

Thanks RIPeroonie.
I just don't want anyone getting hurt. If the 408 CT is doable it is the cheapest way to get into the big bore 2,500 yard club and that is something.

GSC bullets come from a Michigan-Indiana border town now, just a little hop and a skip over the Ohio River and they are in Kentucky.
The JGS reamer is apparently going to take a full 6 months as "scheduled."

Surprise!
JGS shipped .408CT reamer today.

quote:

The Ruger 1 is known for being strong and being able to go up to 577 NE but I know there is a huge diference in pressure between the 577 NE and the 408 CT. The chamber for the 408 CT is about .640" at the base but how much metal is left over? Could it handle 60+K PSI? Will you need

The Cheytac base is same as our 585HE-- .634" and #1 handles
them fine at 60k psi. Thing is going to 577 rimmed case you have
hog out metal in feed trough of #1 which supports shoulders
behind the the breach, which with the 585 HE/Cheytac you don't.
60k loads get 650 gr 585 bullet to 3000 fps.. underkill it ain't...
Never was a big Cheytac fan, but now that Bertram makes
our 585 cases as part of the Gibbs/Cheytac/585HE production
line. hooray... Ed

Thanks Ed. Seems the 408 is not SAAMI or CIP from what I've seen and is known for being loaded hot.

So I guess Ed Hubel would not be averse to shooting a .408 CheyTac Ruger No.1,
if only he could get over the "smallboredom" of such a "ho hum" small bore?

The #1 could be a great platform for the 28 GFH or it's kissing cousin the 585 HE for über power on a "Sporting" rifle.

GSC .408-caliber Bullet Trio (FN 385gr, SP 385gr, HV 370-gr), and JGS reamer:



The bullets are bulk-bagged inside the new boxes, plastic ones for the 25-count SP and HV, cardboard for the 50-count FN:



Notice the "MADE IN THE USA":

Howdy,
I met with Robgunbuilder Saturday last, he and his wife took me and my wife to the "Desert Sportsman Rifle and Pistol Club" in northwest Las Vegas, yes, Nevada.

The most impressive part of my LV vacation was seeing Rob's home garage workshop loaded with multiple pieces of CNC machinery and bar stock feeder, and old-fashioned lathes and mills, 2 Corvettes, a Viper, a parachute-equipped dragster, and countless murdercycles.

Shooting his 600 Overkill and a full auto HK-21 was an anticlimax, but very enjoyable nonetheless. I now have a 600 Overkill empty brass case to dummy-up. Made it through checked baggage, back to Kentucky.

Rob asked what I was working on currently, and all I could say was a "400 Underkill" aka a 10-pound sporting .408 Chey-Tac, if the gunsmith ever finished the latest 500 Bateleur ...

I don't think Rob was impressed.
i might have to neck up the .408CT to .416 and call it the "400 Overkill."

I think the SIII Sightron 1-7X24mm Illuminated will make a great scope for either .408CT aka "400 Underkill" or .416/.408CT aka "400 Overkill" hunting rifle on an MRC PH action ...

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...d-ir4a-reticle-matte



Sightron SIII Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 1-7x 24mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Red and Green Illuminated IR4A Reticle Matte
$799.99
Status: Special Order
Date expected in stock if ordered today: 10/28/2013
FREE SHIPPING
Standard Ground




Product Information
The SIII 1-7x is the ideal hunting scope for the hunter that wants accurate down range precision as well as the ability to quickly acquire targets at medium to close distances.
With the versatility of the power range and the multi-level push button illumination in red and green, this scope will perform under any circumstances.
The 1/10 Mil turrets are solid with audible clicks and are zero resettable with no tools needed.
This scope comes with flip up lens caps and is backed by the Sightron Lifetime warranty.

Technical Information

Tube Diameter: 30mm
Adjustment Click Value: 1/10 Mil
Adjustment Type: Click
Exposed Turrets: No
Finger Adjustable Turrets: Yes
Turrets Resettable to Zero: Yes
Zero Stop: No
Turret Height: Medium
Fast Focus Eyepiece: Yes
Lens Coating: Fully Multi-coated
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Rings Included: No
Sunshade Included: No
Sunshade Length: N/A
Lens Covers Included: Yes
Power Variability: 1-7x
Min power: 1x
Max power: 7x
Reticle Construction: Wire
Reticle: IR4A
Illuminated Reticle: Yes
Battery Type: CR2032 3V
Holdover reticle: No
Reticle Focal Plane Location: 2nd
Parallax Adjustment: Fixed
Finish: Matte
Water/Fogproof: Yes
Shockproof: Yes
Objective Bell Diameter: 30mm
Ocular Bell Diameter: 40.1mm
Eye Relief: 3.9-4.8"
Max Internal Adjustment:
Windage: 100 MOA
Elevation: 100 MOA

Exit Pupil Diameter: N/A
Weight: 20.0 oz.

Field of View at 100 Yards:
91.9' @ 1x
13.0' @ 7x

Dimensions, in inches unless otherwise stated :
A: 12.5
B: Not Listed
C: Not Listed
D: Not Listed
E: Not Listed
F: Not Listed
G: 1.18
H: 1.57






WILDCATS RELOADED
Certifying Body: R.I.P.

Rob sure knows how to party.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Rob sure knows how to party.

He sure does.
What is amazing is that he is still a genius and a friendly fellow even after all those automotive exhaust fumes and head-snapping accelerations and decelerations,
from dragsters and big bore rifles.

Maybe a better name for the cartridge like the 400 Crnobog (Black god or god of darkness)
Cue music to "Night on Bald Mountain"


Either that or "Hells Hornet" AKA H&H

You've inspired me. I'm having a 404J built on a VZ-24 action.

Good on ya, IS. About time.

boom stick,

How about a .416/.408CT called the ".416 Kraken" or more humorously the "400 Release the Cracken!" ...

Release the Cracken
A warning given just prior to a major release of gas.
Only to be used in extreme situations in which the sudden loud noise of the flatulence
would otherwise frighten the unsuspecting people nearby.
Usage example:
Realizing that this was to be no ordinary fart,
Todd made the announcement in his best Scottish accent "Release the Cracken",
giving passersby a moment to shield their faces, mouth, nose, ears, etc.
http://www.urbandictionary.com...ease%20the%20cracken

i.e., "Fire in the hole!" should be announced at the rifle range before pulling the trigger on a 23"-barreled .416 Kraken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyeUsEODxDo

Stunt rifle version of the .416 Kraken that will release the cracken on both ends:

From 2009:
"The heavy barreled No. 1 Tropical (1-H) is now available in .416 Ruger, the new standard for dangerous game. Based on the popular .375 Ruger case, this "necked up" cartridge with a 400 grain bullet delivers over 2,400 FPS and 5,000 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. The .416 Ruger No. 1 Tropical, with its checkered American walnut stock, blued receiver, and 24" barrel combines beauty, strength and power in an affordable American-made single-shot rifle."

I never could understand the need for a Ruger No. 1 in .416 Ruger, when the .416 Rigby works so well in that model.
But run the .408 CT reamer into the .416 barrel and then do the neck with a properly placed .416 Dakota reamer (very long neck and no hazard to the shoulder of the chamber) ...
That would be a cracken releaser ...

If only the quarter rib screw and pin holes did not perforate the enlarged chamber ...

416 KT Kracken-Tac
Love it!
Ruger #1 conversion from a 416 Rigby perhaps?
Methinks a faster twist say 1 in 10 would be needed. 1 in 9 even better and 28".

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
416 KT Kracken-Tac ...
Methinks a faster twist say 1 in 10 would be needed. 1 in 9 even better and 28".

True, the .416 Barrett uses a 1:12" twist for pointy-long 395-grainers at 3250 fps from a 32" barrel.
The slower .416 Kraken could use a lot faster than the 1:14" found on the Rugers, especially if .416 Barrett type bullets are used.
But that 1:14" twist ought to work well with the stubbier hunting bullets like the 350-grain Barnes TTSX at 3000 fps.
A 28"-barreled Ruger No. 1 has the length of a 24"-barreled bolt action. Nice.

I am stuck with 26" finish length on the .408 Chey-Tac "400 Underkill" MRC PH and Ruger No. 1.
Will have to make them switch-barrels for the .416 Kraken "400 Overkill" with 28" fast-twist barrels.

Review:

Renamed .416 Kraken posed with MRC PH, that is the .416 Barrett bullet at top:



Pattern for a .416 Kraken-Tac is the .510/460Wby Ruger No. 1:



Of course a 400 may not need the muzzle brake so much as the 500 does ... I hope.
But there is a lot of gas when you RELEASE THE CRACKEN or kraken.

.408CT: .408 Chey-Tac

.416KT: .416 Kraken-Tac

OK, that's it. That makes it a thread title changer.

Thanks, boom stick.

quote:

The recoil of the full Rigby is on the upper end of "reassuring and comfortable," though I haven't practiced prone yet. 6000 ftlbs is probably pretty close to a limit for me on prone. I've rarely shot or practiced prone with lesser calibres, so I would need a careful build up.

I practiced shooting my CZ550 in .416 Rigby shooting prone from a Harris for quite a few shots from distances of 100 yards out to 600, prior to an Elk hunt in Montrose, Co. where my Dad hi-jacked my carry 35 Whelen (my first choice), and I was forced to shoot the Rigby sporting a Vari-X 4.5-14x 50mm and I can attest to the fact that it is a tad interesting. Upon the shot with the set trigger, the entire rifle, bi-pod, and scope recoiled upward to what I would estimate as a 45 degree angle with the ground. That was with a very tight hold on the stock too. No broken collar bone, LOL, but recoil from the prone position is quite BRISK, and definitely awakens the senses!

PS. Now the big CZ is a .338 Allen Express, based on the Lapua case with minimum body taper, and a 35 degree shoulder. I also replaced the factory Hogback with the H.E.T. stock, which is actually perfect for me, as I have a 14.25-14.50" LOP.....the Hogback was too short for my likes. The new one is much better. This is my "Improved CZ Elk rifle": Kirby Allen ( Allen Precision Rifles) also offers SEVERAL big bore, long range offerings, however, for my this rifle I was on a budget (I was getting married shortly about six months after he first took possession of it). YES, that is a Tubb's Rem 700 recoil lug installed in front of the factory CZ550 Safari Action. Kirby installed it for me, at my request, to help support that massive barrel a little better, and to lessen the stress on the action's threads. His bedding is stellar, I must say, and it is bedded TIGHT and CeraKoted as well---including the H.E.T. 20 MOA rail. Feels great, minus the weight, LOL!!!

woodsracer,
Nice small bore. Ought to do as well or better than a Dakota Longbow in .338 Lapua Magnum.

Using the long Harris bipod and shooting it from a sit is a lot easier on the collar bone with over 40-bore magnums.
Release the Cracken!

In pictures below, .416 Kraken-Tac in top pic, .416 Snipe-Tac in second (lower) pic, from first page of this thread:

Four .416 Kraken-Tac dummies with a single .505 Gibbs round:



A .416 Staghound aka .416 Snipe-Tac:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Nice small bore.

Using the long Harris bipod and shooting it from a sit is a lot easier on the collar bone with over 40-bore magnums.
Release the Kracken!

Thanks for the thumbs up RIP......I have gained a lot of respect over the years reading your posts. I FAILED TO MENTION, that I REALLY want a .375/.408 Improved or a .416/.408 Improved (#1 choice), but for THAT, I want a larger custom action!!! Another GREAT place to look at these wildcats is on Dave Viers website: Black Diamond Rifles. BOTH Dave and Kirby have been building these for quite a while now, and I salivate each time I spend any time on either site......and sad to say, Kirby's small .338 Allen Express just got my blood pumping! He also offers a .338/.408 Improved cartridge, but if I am going with the .505 Gibbs case, to me the marriage of a venerable caliber like the .416, with the venerable .505 Gibbs case that incidentally were both introduced in 1911 is just too cool! A marriage between the two seems to me, at least, to be perfection (It would make a .460 WBY look like a pea shooter, IMHO!).

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
You've inspired me. I'm having a 404J built on a VZ-24 action.

Speaking of the VZ-24.........I wish I would have purchased 10 of them. I ordered one, and it became a Elk slaying .35 Whelen. I wish I had more actions!!!!! I am wanting a .510 caliber, even if it is a Whisper!

The perfect scope and rings for a Ruger No. 1 rebarreled to .416 Kraken Tactical, with a picatinny rail screwed, pinned, and soldered-on as a sight base,
the 34mm-tubed S&B with 4 rings will add about 3 pounds:

Method of attaching picatinny scope base to a Ruger No. 1 for use on .416 Kraken:



Method of attaching secondary recoil pad to primary recoil pad on a too-short-LOP B&C Ruger No. 1 buttstock on a .416 Kraken, two birds with one stone:

A brain burp...
.408" is the bore dimension of the 416 barrel I have seen so maybe a "Paper patch" using 408 bullets and a few wraps of plumbers Teflon tape for more bullet options? I think the bullet that has no rifling marks might have a better Ballistic Coefficient. Has anyone tried this?

boom stick,
Brain flatulence you say? Not exactly on the scale of "release the kraken," eh?
You are properly excused.

Supplementing .416 bullets with .408 bullets ... not needed, with all the .416 bullets out there, especially since the .416 Barrett.

More useful would be sizing down .410, .411, and maybe even .416 bullets (in multiple steps) to .408.

I never thought about improving BC by not engraving the bullet, but some just love that paper patching. It would be a new thing for me, I have never done it before.

.416 seems to be about as standardized a barrel as you will find.
Everybody seems to have that right,
.408 bore and .416 groove for all of these, 1.2" to 1.25" shank diameter unless otherwise stated:

Krieger:
Minimum contour for stainless is #6-sporter, 1:12" or 1:14" twists, ???-groove, lengths up to ??? for $345

Lilja:
Offers a stainless #6-sporter, 1:12" (8-G), 1:13" (6-G), or 1:14" (8-G), length 28"-30" standard for $335, up to 45" long for extra charge ... + shank diameters extra charge: 1.25", 1.75", 2"

McGowen:
Offers a stainless #6-sporter, 1:10" or 1:14" twists, 6-groove, custom contour included and up to 30" length for $295 (stainless blank $260, standard contour $30, custom contour $35):
I would specify an 8"-long cylindrical knoxform for the breech end, then a straight taper to 0.750" muzzle diameter at 28" length (order 30-incher and chop to 28" finished length.).

Shilen:
1:14" twist only. That's cool for a 400 Whelen, but not the best for a .416 Kraken Tactical.

Pac-Nor:
6-groove: 1:10", 1:12", 1:14"
8-groove: 1:8", 1:11", 1:14"
3-groove: 1:14"
Stainless + custom contour is $280 + $35 up to 28", $11 per inch exceeding 28".

Here is the kind of 25-pounder we are trying to avoid with the sporting-weight .408 Cheyenne Tactical and .416 Kraken Tactical:



But the .416 Barrett cartridge, a shortened 50 BMG necked down ...


http://ammoguide.com/?catid=436

... offers a good bullet of .416 caliber and nominal 395-grain weight that could help RELEASE THE KRAKEN ...

One bullet pulled and laid on top of the scanner:



Then the scan has some dimensions inked onto it and rescanned:



These .416/395-grain bullets could be sized down to .408 if the supernumary nipple did not get squashed.
All it takes is a bit of brain flatulence to CHAIN THE KRAKEN!!!

Get Kraken!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Get Kraken!

Hey, that Krakened me up!

But I will not be "Crackin'" like the mayor of Toronto's pipe.
The only thing that slows ME down is scarcity of money and gunsmith hours.
Not just any gunplumber showing his plumber's crackin' can be trusted with a job like this.
Kraken that whip does no good either ...

Sir Gunsmith is requesting some feed dummies and chamber proof poof loads.

First "poof load" will be a case full of RETUMBO (139.1 grains)
with GSC .408/385gr FN and COal of 3.900" which fits into the +4.0-inch PH box.

QuickLOAD predicted MV/pressure for this "poof load" in 26" barrel is 2700 fps at 45,310 psi.

Other powder choices can produce 2900 fps at 55,000 psi,
or
3000 fps at 6X,XXX psi. (censored)

Whether it will feed the FN from that box is yet to be seen.
Pointy and round nose bullets sure feed well.

I know you probably will think I am crazy again but thinking about the Kraken and the Ruger #1 I remembered the idea of a Pre rifled bullet. With the long high BC bullets pre rifled and loaded long in a Ruger #1 you could hand align the round and Have reduced pressure and more useable case capacity both resulting in higher velocity or lower pressure. Now all we have to do is make custom high BC lathe turned bullets . The pre rifled solids would have higher BC because no need for driving bands that cause drag.

boom stick,
I will try to ignore that "pre-rifled" bullet idea, again, hoping not to have nightmares about it, again ...

The test loads were fired today, causing a volcanic eruption of snow and dirt from the pile:







The chamber may get a little polishing.
The stock will get a steel rod installed from the grip cap up to the rear pillar.
The stock will be refinished.
It feeds the FN from the right side of the magazine from the get go, the left-side needs some work ...
Rusty fired one of these, and I fired the other:

quote:

The pre rifled solids would have higher BC because no need for driving bands that cause drag.

Some drive bands do not cause drag. Some drive bands cause drag. Grooved bullets are likely to cause drag. Generalising and putting all into the same category is not correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:

quote:

The pre rifled solids would have higher BC because no need for driving bands that cause drag.

Some drive bands do not cause drag. Some drive bands cause drag. Grooved bullets are likely to cause drag. Generalising and putting all into the same category is not correct.

I've wondered about grooves and BC. For 300-400 yard capability I like to have a BC of at least .400 G1, .500 is better, of course. The biggest disappointment of the CEB line are the BC's below .300 for most of the raptors. For .510" the 450 grain GSC appears to set the bar. but its BC is only .33 G1. It's still an elegant bullet, and I hope to test it again in June.

Thanks Gerard. Sorry for the off topic RIP. if the bullet shank was groove diameter that would add a bit of weight adding to SD and BC. The reduced fouling could add to accuracy as well. I think it is worthy of some R&D.

If we take a 150gr 30 cal bullet with the shank at groove diameter and change it to a drive band shank, the weight reduces by 6gr. The BC reduces by 4 digits in the third decimal (For example it goes from .404 to .400). The SD improves by 2 digits at the third decimal and the speed goes up. I do not think that the fouling would improve with a groove diameter shank. In fact, drive bands on a land diameter shank does reduce fouling over a grooved or smooth groove diameter shank.

No offense taken.
Cutting off the noses of the GSC HV bullets to make them fit in the magazine for feed dummies did not help the BC,
but I will be single-loading them full length when the target shooting begins.