A friend bought the CZ Safari Classic 458 Lott I had in classifieds awhile back. I ended up with the job of load developement, mounting a scope and sight in.
I do not have any experience with a rifle this size. This particular rifle did not have cross bolts in the stock. After reading several posts here this was a cause for concern. Talked with a local smith, who recommended one cross bolt in front of the mag cut out. Finally called CZ, upon voicing my concern, their tech instructed me to return the rifle to them for cross bolt installation--no charge. Rifle is due back tomorrow.
I have 100 Norma cases prepped and ready to load, 500gr Barnes TSX and their banded solids. Plan on starting with 76 gr RL-15, a powder I have on hand. If anyone is using this powder, bullet combination I would like to hear from them.
I've set up a couple 416s w/ 400 gr bullets, both Rem & Rigby, how does the recoil of the Lott compare??

Phil

the lott kicks a good bit more than the 416s ..

rel15 is a bit slow for max vel out of the lott .. i prefer either 4895s, 4320, and h335 ...

that charge and bullet won't be too bad

if you shoot off the bench keep the TOE off the bench and bags

That is one awesome looking cartridge, I thought the 416s were impressive.
Loaded up a 500 gr solid. COL exactly 3.600. Will wait now til the rifle gets here.
What is a good hunting velocity for this caliber, bullet combo. I can change powder if needed. Doesn't have to be the fastest kid on the block.

Phil

Jeffe is right, RL15 is a bit slow. 78 gr H335 averages 2160fps out of mine with the Barnes 500gr banded solid. Has some muzzle flash. 78gr AA2230 averages 2268fps with the banded solid.

Try some 450gr banded solids for reduced recoil, they still penetrate very well.

The 458 Lott will recoil more than the 416, not pleasant off the bench. Offhand or off sticks it is very manageable. There is a significant increase in recoil going from 2150fps to,say,2400fps. The rifle becomes harder to manage and loses some of it's "shootability". Stay around 2150-2200 fps with the 500gr or 450gr banded solids and you will be fine. The NF solids are great in the Lott as well.

Let us know how your range session goes

I load my .450 Rigby to around 2275. Off the bench it is just plain unpleasant, even with sand bags behind the recoil pad. So when you've got it hitting where you want it, go to the sticks from there. Tuck it in tight, hold on tight and don't try for more than five rounds each trip to the range. When he gets to the field, though, he won't even hear it go off, let alone feel any recoil. Buffalo are scary!

CZ 458 Lott got here today.
Whimped out and shot my one loaded round (described above) off hand and without a scope.
Convinced the recoil was gonna really rock my socks, I kinda dreaded shooting it. After some heath issues the last three years and down to 165# it was a non event. Pleasently surprised.
I do have a bit of H335, less than a half pound, enought to start loads developement. Plan on starting at 78gr behind that Barnes solid, anybody using that combo. How about H4895, none in stock but might try that.
I might add, I got a particular kick out of just chambering that big round (to me). Make you think of far away places, could become habit forming!

Phil

ihave AHR 458 lott along with other big bores and i don't think the lott is as bad as everyone says yes it kicks but you can easily shoot 10 rounds off sand bags and its not to bad. i am not sure but in my opinion waynes guns do not kick as bad as some by the way there is no brake on my lott

10.5 lbs makes the gun manageable. Might see what your rifle currently weighs. I suspect your CZ has a 14" LOP from the factory which is sufficient for most shooters. Most rifles (production) come with 13.5-13.75 " LOP.
If you get the gun to fit you, it might help with any recoil issues.

Hello! You will enjoy the Lott!

I use 82 grains of Reloader 15 with the 500 grain TSX @ 2270 fps and then 80 grains with the 500 grain Barnes Banded Solid to shoot to the same point of impact at 100 yards. Has been an accurate load for me, also. Hope you enjoy your new rifle! If you hold it firmly against you and grip the fore-end well you will be fine shooting.

Best,

jpj3

I own the 458 Lott. The stock Fits like a glove.
as far as pictures go I can't make them. It also has a lamitened stock and a very touchy
trigger or not so touchy trigger it has to be set to be touchy.

mount the scope and you might be pleasantly surprised how it takes the edge off recoil.

I'm having problems sighting in a scope.
Mounted a Leupold 1.75-6x32mm in CZ ringmounts.
My elevation adj topped out at 12" low.
I've since tried another scope, a 2-7x32mm Leupold and changed to Leupold ringmounts, this combo ran out the windage adj. Also the rear Leupold ringmount does not fit tight to the receiver--noticeable gap on the right side-- perhaps 3/32. The CZ mount does fit flat on the receiver.
Anyone experience problems mounting a scope on a CZ Safari Classic.
Starting to think about sending the rifle back to CZ.
Not a fun gun off the bench, but recoil not as bad expected. Althiugh I did loose some skin with the first shot, didn't give it enough respect.
Picked up a couple #s of H335, plan on a starting load of 78grs.
Any advice will be appreciated

Thanks
Phil

philny1,

A friend's CZ550 Magnum, albeit a 458 Winnie, had the same issue. His was 12" low at 50 yards with two sets of rings used (Warne and I believe CZ). Anyway, I shimmed the scope ring and it has worked out very well. Not sure, but suspect that the receiver was machined incorrectly, ie wrong height. I have heard tales of bent barrels, but I find that one difficult to believe because it was only an elevation problem no windage issues. So if the barrel was bent it pointed straight down, what are the odds of that???

Good luck.

To date, I probably hold a record for target preservation.
After looking the Leupold mounts over again, I noticed a bur that kept them from fitting the receiver properly. Easy fix.
Remount the scope I started with, bore sight it with the grid pattern bore sighter I normally use. Just for laughs and giggles, once at my bench, I bore sight it again the old fashion way at 50 yds. Shoot--NOT on paper. Bring the target in to 25 yds, bore sight it again. Shoot--NOT on paper.
Remove that scope, mount another Leupold scope using the same procedure. Shoot again at 25 yds--NOT on paper.
Remove that scope and fired a shot with iron sights at 25 yds, that was a paper hit
I might add I switched to 78 grs H-335, significant increase in recoil.
So, unless I get a remedy from the Big Bore shooters here, looks like a trip back to CZ.

Phil

Phil

Send it back. I had the same problem with both my CZ Safaris (375H&H and 416Rigby). The smith at CZ said there was a bad run of barrels coming from the Czech plant in the safari calibers.

Once they have the rifle, it gets sent to Triple River (their custom shop) where they pull the barrel, straighten it, square things up and reinstall.

They've worked just fine once I got them back. But without them "tuning" the barrel, you're just wasting ammo.

Aggravating, but CZ is more than willing to make it right. I even got them to install a barrel band on the 416R for all my trouble.

Mike

Rifle was sent back to CZ.On the phone their tech seemed eager to please. Mentioned the barrel band, it was noted but not promised.
Bent barrel?? My last shot was taken with iron sights, poi was about 1" high at 25 yds. I'm thinking the problem is when the receiver was milled.
I'm building a new portable bench with adjustable legs. With this I'll be able to shoot of the bags while standing. If I'm proud of it, I'll post some pics.

Phil

Received the 458 Lott back from CZ yesterday. Mounted the same Leu 1.75-6 in CZ mounts, ran out of elevation adjustment at 2" low at 50 yds.
This is an improvement from the the 12" low at 50 yds when I sent it in.
Called CZ and was told the scope they used to check their repair and shoot the target sent back with the rifle was a Burris Black Diamond which has a range of 74 moa elevation The Leu I was using has 45 moa of elevation adjustment. Was told to send the rifle back to them with the scope I wished to use and they would make it work.
Switched scopes again, to an older 2-7 Leu with 75 moa elevation adjustment. With this scope I was able to get a 100 yd zero.
Look like its going back to KC--third time!!

Phil

I had the same problem with both of my CZ's in 458WM and 458Lott. I had to send both back to CZ and they fixed them in just a couple of weeks.They both shot about 12" low at 50yds with a scope, I never shot either without the scopes. I plan to send the Lott to AHR for a little makeover.

I own a CZ 458 Lott and standing the recoil does
not bother me. On the bench it has 74 ftlb I use
sand bag over my shoulder, I make my own sand bags.

quote:

Received the 458 Lott back from CZ yesterday. Mounted the same Leu 1.75-6 in CZ mounts, ran out of elevation adjustment at 2" low at 50 yds.
This is an improvement from the the 12" low at 50 yds when I sent it in.
Called CZ and was told the scope they used to check their repair and shoot the target sent back with the rifle was a Burris Black Diamond which has a range of 74 moa elevation The Leu I was using has 45 moa of elevation adjustment. Was told to send the rifle back to them with the scope I wished to use and they would make it work.
Switched scopes again, to an older 2-7 Leu with 75 moa elevation adjustment. With this scope I was able to get a 100 yd zero.
Look like its going back to KC--third time!!

I also have a CZ in 458Lott that I could only get elevation to 12 inch low at 25 yards. So; how many CZ is that in this thread alone? 6 or 8? In another thread it was stated the fix at the CZ shop was to put the bbl action in a vise and bend it! No facing or machining involved. It was also speculated there was no improved accuracy or noticeable effect on accuracy before or after. It seems curious they are all bend down?

I wonder when this bending occurred and if the bore ends up slightly out of round near the bend. Does bending back up simply adds a double kink and two out of round spots in the bore. Probably not, I sure dont know.

Anyways... The suggestion I got and used successfully was too install Burris Z rings with eccentric internal disks for gross adjustments. I believe I used a 10 (or more?)disk in the rear ring and shot on the paper with the scope in the center of the adjustment range. Unfortunately, Burris rings required a weaver base which looks funny. That did allow me to mount the scope one extra inch forward and takes full advantage of available eye relief with no loss in field of view.

philny1, Did you ask what the procedure was? And why they just dont set it dead on straight? To much of a double reverse bend kinking the bbl?

I talked to a CZ tech about a month ago, his explanation was that the barrel was not threaded square to the receiver. After their "fix" a scope was mounted and the rifle was test fired at 100 yds. I have the target showing the elevation is correct at this distance. BUT the scope they were using has considerable more elevation adjustment than the Leu 1.75-6 which I wish to mount and zero. I would think that it would be possible to mount and zero any scope on this rifle. A mechanical fix verses using a scope with a very generous adjustment range.
Now they did make an improvement, the Leu 2-7 would not zero before it was sent in. It has a 75 moa range of adj verses 45 moa for the 1.75-6.
I talked to a fella named Harlin, who commented that the scope should have been sent in with the rifle. He told me to send the rifle back with the scope I wanted to use and he would make it work. How, really don't know but I'm thinking he's going to shim the rear mount. Not acceptable.
Will talk to him again tomorrow before I decide. May just leave the Leu 2-7 on it if I can clear that with my customer.
Must be getting simple minded in my old age, "almost" enjoy shooting it. Would like to shoot the Barnes solid and TSX to the same zero, any advise would be appreciated as far as a powder charge.
BTW: a Leu 1.5-5 has 120 moa elevation, might save alot of CZ owners the aggravation I'm experiencing.

Phil

quote:

I talked to a CZ tech about a month ago, his explanation was that the barrel was not threaded square to the receiver.

If, I understand and I am not sure I do, this would mean the action was messed up. The threads in the action angle down and the barrel bore is straight but when screwed in - it is canted downward. There is no easy fix for that! Bending the barrel would be wrong. The action should be replaced. Or scope or mounts changed as suggested. Or clean up the action and machine with larger diameter threads and new barrel. And thats not happening.

This would explain what they all shoot low. They had a jig mis-aligned and cut the threads on those actions at an angle. Its not a random error, which is what you would expect with a bad barrel. Or?

Seems to me, if; something was machined wrong and 'if' they re-machined it right, then it would be dead nuts on, not 1/2 way fixed.

My open sited was close enough with the 300 yard leaf. Those sites are mounted on the barrel, so what does that mean? Bent barrel or front bead to high? Or an independent issue?

I am glad I did not send my gun for repair and I am sensing an M70 458 Lott in my future. If the "New Winchester" ever makes that a factory option.

Is it worth it? I couldn't be bothered carrying a rifle that had to have all that work done to 'get it right'. Why not prang it barrel first in the ground, tie a goat to it and let it do the job. Would have to be better than the factory that made it and who thinks they can fix it.

Jeez I've never heard so much angst over a firearm.

With my CZ 458 Lott the recoil is 74 ftlbs.
But that bullet is moving 2363 fps 500 gr.

Rifle is travelin' again. Set it on the bags yesterday to confirm the 100 yd zero of the Barnes solids, before I start load developement for the 500 gr TSX.
What do ya know, a crack has started from the tang along the top of the grip. Can't seem to get a break with this rifle.

Phil

I would send that rifle back for a refund pretty quick after all this nonsense. It certainly puts a bad taste in my mouth for a CZ rifle. I feel for you and hope if you hang on to it your issues are resolved.

quote:

Originally posted by philny1:
Rifle is travelin' again. Set it on the bags yesterday to confirm the 100 yd zero of the Barnes solids, before I start load developement for the 500 gr TSX.
What do ya know, a crack has started from the tang along the top of the grip. Can't seem to get a break with this rifle.

Phil

I'd send it in again, as a pain as that is. I'd send the scope in too and make sure you point out that you do not want the scope shimmed. You would like the problem (bent barrel, bad receiver, whatever) addressed properly. Also point out to CZ that the tang now has a crack in it. They should replace the stock for you since this is an issue that does occur on the big kicking rifles. Again, ask for the barrel band since you've sent the rifle back several times now and this experience has made it hard to enjoy your rifle. Maybe you might even see what the legality of them giving you a new rifle is.

When you get the rifle back, confirm the problem has been fixed. Once it has been fixed, I would start reinforcing the stock with some steel bed, a wrist pin, and relieve the tang. They're simple fixes that provide some good insurance to keep your stock from splitting. They'll also add a little weight to help with recoil and the bedding should improve accuracy a little. Why CZ doesn't do these reinforcements in the first place, I don't know. Seems like it would be cheaper to do some prevention than have to replace the stock down the road. You can ask RIP all about that with his 404 Jeffery.

Just send the POS to me, particularly if CZ will not refund or replace. I am sure I can "fix" it to my liking. So much ado about nothing.

Mine weghts 10 lbs. I have a scope and a sling
on it. It gives me 74ft lbs of recoil.

About 6-7 years ago I bought a Cz550 magnum in 416 Rigby. It would not hit paper with my first scope... I bougt a Leu 1-4 and it worked with this scope. However I had it rebarrel to 450 Rigby by a competent smith and after this I had to go back to center on the elevation knob. This makes me guess that the problem is in the barrel threads as stated by the CZ guy. My new barrel has square threads and thus, it shoots straight.

Would appreciate some feedback from some of the more level headed well informed members we have here.
If you read my previous posts, I've had quite a few problems with this rifle. Anyhow I returned from CO yesterday and it was here waiting for me. Was shipped in a heavy duty gun box, with 1½" foam top and bottom. Aso used bubble wrap to seperate the gun, scope and mounts. Upon opening the box, couldn't beleive my eyes. Even though there was ample packing in the box, the bolt was just put in next to the new stock they had just replaced. I'll give em credit it has nice figure, better than I expected. Now along the comb its gouged up where the bolt was.
I was told they would mount the scope and sight in after correcting the problems I was experiencing. First off the scope was off level, ring screws were loose. Despite a pretty target returned with the rifle, I cannot hit paper at 100 yds.
Felt the need to vent abit. Will post some pics of the stock and set up a 50 yd target and shoot again.
BTW: I am dealing directly with Triple River Gunsmith--their warranty repair and custom shop.

Phil

Sounds like CZ has some very serious quality control problems.

465H&H

Phil, your bad luck with this rifle, its maker and its repair service personnel has been extraordinary.

I doubt that I would have your patience.

They had better be paying for shipping!

Here is some pics of the new stock and packagfing I used.





I finally got it on paper. The "sighted in" rifle they sent me was 18" high and 5" to the rt at 100 yds.
Until today I have been single loading. With two in the magazine, it will not feed.
They have sent me a new replacement stock. First time I sent it to them they boogered up the stock--same way--bolt put in loose next to wood when packaging was provided. New stock and gun crossed paths when shipped back this last time. Took them about two months to come up with the stock.
Meanwhile I'm pondering what to do. No doubt I'll be told to send it back. I have close to $150.00 in S&I to date.

Phil

Phil

A Ruger 77, and you would be done.

This thread reads like a Ruger commercial.

.

Sorry about your problems, but that wood does look nice.

I can believe that you have to have a scope with 75MOA or send the rifle in with the scope you intend to use to get the rifle put into a usable state.
Why not send it back with a non-image moving scope, e.g. an early Kahles and instruct them to get the barrel to shoot to point of aim with the reticule centred. Make them do some proper gunsmithing for once in their lives instead of poxy patch jobs.

It is really beyond belief that anyone would continue to buy such a crap firearms and put up with idiotic attempts to get it right.

Wow Phil, did you spit in their coffee or something.

I would find the phone number/email for Alice Poluchova. She's the president of CZ. I'd politely explain what's wrong and what you want fixed. I believe, with that much in shipping, you have very good grounds to ask for something like a barrel band sling swivel to be installed as well (especially since you want to be able to post a happy resolution to everyone here on AR). I would assume, since she's the boss, she would have a better solution than a rep in customer service will.

Just my $.02

I feel your pain. I had two guns not work from new, a Rem and a Win. I put up with way less than you and still sold them for a loss. That CZ is something I would never trust for DG after all this.