Anyone tried the 416ruger?
What do you think of it?
Ever hear if they have any feeding issues?
why do they come in only rubberhammer type stocks..cause they snapbrake wooden stocks?Lawdeedamnda...
http://www.ruger.com/products/...eAlaskan/models.html

Whats not to like?

I have the Ruger Alaskan rifle in both the 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger. Both are powerful but the 416 Ruger is just awesome in the 20" bbl Alaskan. I love mine. NO feeding issues whatsoever...and I don't think they would break a properly bedded/cross pinned wooden stock.

I have a 416 Ruger Alaskan and love it. Yes it is a hand full but managable. It shoots 350gr TTSX Barnes bullets really well with a stiff dose of Varget. Only issue I see with the rifle is availability of load data. Just not a lot out there. Availibility of loading components can be troublesome. The rifle is light, fast handling and just what I wanted for bear protection.

Rifle, 350gr TTSX, 400gr Hornady RN, target 50yds open sights and 350gr TTSX.

Load info..
http://www.realguns.com/archives/177.htm

Without pressure data the loading data is dang near meaningless. But based upon the experiences with the same powders in similar cases it all falls out in the end.

All that reloading data condenses to what RL-15 has pretty much always been: a good choice, if not the choice, for the 416's.

You stuff enough RL-15 into the case to get the velocity you want and voila!

Your Own Reloading Data!

BBH, JudgeG here (Ernest) has one, and took an Ele with it on our trip to Chirisa 2 years ago. You might want to PM him for his take on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Without pressure data the loading data is dang near meaningless. ...

like 416 taylor, persons posting the taylor hitting 2400, without any reference to the taylor being a TINY .416 case when rem and ruger are "vastly" larger.

You're right technically, Will, but in the bad old days we seemed to get along without ANY pressure data OR chronos. Of course, when all those "neat" gadgets came out, a whole barn full of "Godawful" cannons returned to the real world.

416 Rem case volume...101 gr H2O
416 Ruger case volume...98 gr H2O
416 Taylor case volume..."only" 93 gr H20

My Taylor does 2325-2350fs with a 400 gr and RL-15 and gets 10-12 reloads per case(basically what the "old" Rigby did depending on barrel length and all the rest of the factors)...I don't think the pressure is too far into the realm of requiring "danger money" to shoot.

Today I would pick the Ruger case over the other two if I were building another 416 and I would buy a Ruger in a hot second if I had the money...unless I couldn't get one, then I would go with CZ... ...pull the barrel and screw on a 50 cal and think me ready for ANYTHING.

All three will get the job done so why sweat the small stuff. Pick the one you like, go enjoy it and forget the rest.

Luck

I looked at Graf & Sons and they only had Hornady 416 Ruger: Out of Stock.

They had Jamison and Norma 416 Taylor in stock. Maybe the 416 Taylor isn't such a bad choice!

And you can't get something for nothing. If the Ruger case holds more powder (water) and it the same length length as the Taylor it has to be fatter.

And all else being equal that translates to fewer rounds in the magazine.

Just wondering...If a reloader took a brand new 375ruger case and ran it into a 416ruger die will it make a 416ruger case?prolly be alot easier to find 375ruger cases...since they sold a gazillion of those rifles right?I just saying

Yup, that's the formula. I just bought 50 new 416 brass from Wholesalehunter.com.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
And you can't get something for nothing. If the Ruger case holds more powder (water) and it the same length length as the Taylor it has to be fatter.

And all else being equal that translates to fewer rounds in the magazine.

again, you prove beyound the shadow of any doubt, that your advice on guns is worth bupkiss.

the rim diameter of both is .532
the belt diameter of the taylor is right at .532, and the diameter of the ruger at the same distance is about .530 ..

the case length difference is .080 .. and yet the ruger is actually MEANT to crimp on the groove of all 400gr bullets, to make it the same OAL as the taylor ... (that's why the taylor can't crimp on the groove of anything but OLD (aint made no more) pattern hornadys)

the difference is in the taper.. but that means NOTHING once the max diameter is set.. which is identical to the taylor, but the shoulder is fatter...

which any gunsmith knows has a less than trivial impact on how many it can hold down.

bill, why don't you stick to talking about hunting... NOT gunsmithing, k? I don't run my yap about elephant hunting...

Whatever makes you feel better!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Whatever makes you feel better!

thanks bill.. i thought you'd be grownup enough to understand its better to talk about things you know than to spout off about things your don't...

nice to see you mellowing

quote:

Originally posted by blackbearhunter:
Just wondering...If a reloader took a brand new 375ruger case and ran it into a 416ruger die will it make a 416ruger case?prolly be alot easier to find 375ruger cases...since they sold a gazillion of those rifles right?I just saying

I built my 416 Ruger here in Australia before 416 Brass was available, got the reamer from PTG, shortened and rechambered my 416 Taylor

I brought 250 375 Ruger cases and resized the lot, they are fine, it's an easy neck up.

regards
S&F

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Whatever makes you feel better!

thanks bill.. i thought you'd be grownup enough to understand its better to talk about things you know than to spout off about things your don't...

nice to see you mellowing

I was kidding.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Without pressure data the loading data is dang near meaningless. But based upon the experiences with the same powders in similar cases it all falls out in the end.

All that reloading data condenses to what RL-15 has pretty much always been: a good choice, if not the choice, for the 416's.

You stuff enough RL-15 into the case to get the velocity you want and voila!

Your Own Reloading Data!

Wow, "dang" and "viola" in the same post. Actually, few mainstream print manuals note individual load test pressures, Results varies so much from one firearm to another and with one one component to another, even within the same type.

Most people don't realize that, even with piezo transducer equipment, set up and validation of readings is a pretty subjective process. Most people don't realize that the pressure "readings" they see on message boards are often no more than "QuickLoad calculations.

Other than an indication that data is under SAAMI MAP, pressure information is pretty much meaningless and can't be used as the basis for alterning charges. Which is why most data developers record pressure data only to assure themselves they are loading to a safe level.

We use strain gauge on actual firearms and/or piezo transducer with a universal receiver and test barrel. The 416 was done with strain. They were all under SAAMI as fired from a Ruger rifle. We chrono everything.

It is perfectly valid for a knowledgeable reloader to develop loads for themselves. All published data is only reference. Reloading is not a casual pasttime.

Don't disagree with that but it might be admitted that most roll-your-own handloading is based upon what others have done before, with or without pressure data. If the gun doesn't blow how bad can the pressure be?

That's why I said just stuff RL-15 in the case and quit when its desired velocity is achieved.

Foobar wrote:

quote:

416 Rem case volume...101 gr H2O
416 Ruger case volume...98 gr H2O
416 Taylor case volume..."only" 93 gr H20

That is the way to go about load data preparations. From such a table one can see that 416 Remington data can be used as an approximation for the Ruger as long as 3 grains are subtracted for all of the Ruger load estimates. The velocity might average 20fps slower, but individual gun differences will be bigger than any difference in velocities between the 416Ruger and 416 Remington.

For handloaders, of course, one cannot compare the Ruger with the Rigby. Add 20 grains of powder and get +200 fps with the Rigby, even more if you want to.

Comments on the Ruger trigger would be appreciated. I am thinking of building a 500 on a Ruger Hawkeye and I am tempted to have a 416 Ruger itself, too. I'm thinking that a clean 5-lb trigger pull would be OK on a DGR.

quote:

Today I would pick the Ruger case over the other two if I were building another 416

Absolutely.....and contrary to what has been said, you get as many down with the Ruger case as you do with the .416 Taylor case!

I love my 416 Alaskan. Moa accuracy and a clean crisp trigger with no feeding issues. All anybody could ask for, especially with a street price of about $750.

P.S. Ruger has EXCELLENT iron sights on these rifles!

I built a couple of Custom rifles in .416 Ruger caliber as soon as the 375 Ruger cases were available. I tested both rifles considerably before I sold them and I hunted Buff with one of them..

I could not tell any difference between the .416 Ruger and the 416 Remington in killing game..The Ruger was on a 98 Mauser aciton and fed and functioned fine..All Ruger 77s seem to feed and function.. Some of our camp guns are Ruger 77s in 416 Rigby.

The Ruger is as good or better than most, and the new Hawkeye African is the best factory gun I have seen in years, but alas it does not come in .416, at least not yet..Only the 375 and 9.3x62.

It is NET case capacity after the bullet has been seated that determines how much hair is on the dog...NOT total case capacity per se...and barrel length gets it's nose stuck in there also.

MY Taylor at 26" will produce as much or more velocity as a 20" Ruger but as long as the NET volumes are equal so is the velocity with equal length barrels, it doesn't matter WHICH case you use.

The Taylor, Rem and Ruger for all intents and purposes had identical case OD's at least at the base end so a magazine will hold the same number of any of them.

As far as usefulness on game those three are pretty equal. You really need to get away from published data and actually compare the three side by side using the same barrel lengths, bullet weights and chrono data...

We're taling about ~ 5 to 9 gr of H2O difference and you only actually get about 1/4 of that small difference in velocity...5 gr difference equals about 1.25% increase in velo.

You might want to see what that amount of water looks like on you weight scale and calculate the additional velocity before getting too
excited...and that doesn't take into consideration the various differences in rifle barrels.

You only start getting real hair on the dog when you go to the RUM, slightly over 116 gr H2O, RIGBY at ~131 gr H2O or the 10.57 Lazzaroni at ~127 gr H20. cases...and also magazine capacity "problems".

I don't see very much wrong with Rugers as far as performance goes, but I wish they offered a longer barrel version of the Alaskan.

Luck

quote:

The Taylor, Rem and Ruger for all intents and purposes had identical case OD's at least at the base end so a magazine will hold the same number of any of them.

I would disagree as it does make a difference.

quote:

I love my 416 Alaskan. Moa accuracy and a clean crisp trigger with no feeding issues. All anybody could ask for, especially with a street price of about $750.

Where do you get those? Currently on Gunbroker they are $765-$850, even though the similarly priced 375 Ruger sometimes dips under $700. Shipping to CALIF and adding extra handling adds $25 + $60 + tax $60.

You may/could/are right under some circumstances, Will...but it really falls under that "you have to test it with whichever receiver/mag you use" conundrum....maybe it does make a difference and maybe it doesn't

I haven't seen any capacity difference within the receivers/mag box/clips I've worked with...Rem, Ruger, Savage, M98, SMLE, factory shape and sized, but there is a ~0.026" total OD difference in shoulder dia with the Ruger case being the larger...that ~0.100" could be a factor in some 4 down mag boxes.

While I was futzing around with my Rigby based 50 cal I bought Ruger factory 375 and 416 followers/springs and mag boxes to use as mockups to see where I could "fiddle" my Tang receiver and what cases would/wouldn't work.

I even worked out a few instances where a shortened Gibbs case would do 2 down and feed straight into a dummy barrel...but there were other problems associated with the "pushfeed" bolt face otherwise my Rigby bases 50 cal would have ended up a "short, rebated Gibbs" based 50 cal...but the gain in case capacity/velocity wasn't worth the effort/cost over using the standard Rigby case.

I'm speaking generally and anytime you generalize there is ALWAYS a case that jumps up and bites you on the popo.

My point, "generally speaking", still is, for all intents and purposes the cases are interchangeable...on game and magazine capacity...and...as always...the gunsmith might need to do some minor mods on the rifle in general to get it to function safely and correctly...BUT...there are always exceptions.

Luck

When you cut through all the crap it boils down to one thing, The Ruger is probably a tad better designed cartridge than the Taylor, Rigby, or the Remington, but they all perform the same in the field and the differnce in any of them is opinnion and obsecure conjecture..

I probably won't be giving up my 416 Remington for a 416 Ruger for one reason and that is I have about 2000 loaded rounds and dies for the 416 Remington. If I ever sell my present custom 416 Remington, I hope they buy all the ammo also, then the 416 Ruger will be my next 40 caliber. I like everything about it..Hopefully by then they will have come out with the Hawkeye African in .416 Ruger and if not then I will build a Mauser with a 20 to 24 inch tube. I like that African model, it's slim, trim and African with most of the good bling stuck on it.

quote:

You may/could/are right under some circumstances, Will...but it really falls under that "you have to test it with whichever receiver/mag you use" conundrum....maybe it does make a difference and maybe it doesn't

FOOBAR,

Can't disagree. I originally stated that "all else being equal" but that usually gets ignored.

Just an amateur here; but the 416 Ruger seems to
me to be a really fine choice for a do anything rifle
and caliber!

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
Just an amateur here; but the 416 Ruger seems to
me to be a really fine choice for a do anything rifle
and caliber!

Yes.
And when with 300 grains it shoots flat enough for me. There ought to be a high BC out sometime soon in .416 300 grain. GSCustom has a 245 grainer!

Sorry Will...I didn't ignore it, I just missed it.

For a large extent, discussions on forums never quite get fully fleshed out and even though the participants might be speaking about the same thing, all he** breaks loose in the translation, semantics and time differentials.

In todays world and if I hadn't had that extra Ruger Tang receiver lying around and the 416 Taylor barrel hadn't been available from Midway along with the dies and cheap...AND...had I known the Ruger was in the final stages of development, I would have waited on the Ruger case and use a "true" CRF DGR receiver for my 416 shooter...but it wasn't and I didn't and mine was completed over a year and a half earlier than the Ruger at much less cost. For the gain or extra cost in dies and brass I wouldn't rechamber...I wouldn't recommend anyone changing from their present Rem/Taylor 416 to the Ruger unless you just can't live without having the Ruger.

Everyone has their "personal preferences" and can readily prove whatever it is to prove...it is very difficult to really look at things objectively and the "big" picture when comparing our "favs" against "that other thing". ...and who wants to anyway.

I keep looking at Hornady's 416 Rigby velo and know my Taylor with half a grain more RL-17 will equal or exceed those velos...I know if I had a 416 Rigby I could get another 200-300 fs without any sweat...I also know I would go to a larger cal instead(and did, my 510 Makatak)if I "needed" more whack or if I expected T-RexSageRat came over the back fence...

Barnes has a very high BC 400 gr bullet available and there are several online solid brass bullet makers that can provide them also.

ANY CNC machine shop can turn out whatever shape you want, law permiting, or any good or mediocre machinist can do the same...I've made a few solid brass projectiles for my Taylor and 45 cals and a few 50 cal designs to try some day...and I don't consider myself a gunsmith OR a machinist.

Use what you like and enjoy it, no need for excuses or appologies.

Luck

quote:

Barnes has a very high BC 400 gr bullet available and there are several online solid brass bullet makers that can provide them also.

Their highest BC in .416 is the 350 grain Tipped TSX at .444 BC (not yet posted, but personal communication from the lab). Great penetration on buffalo, broadside pass, you need a lengthwise shot to recover a bullet.

That's strange, or maybe not...I haven't looked at Barnes for my big boomers for quite a while. My Barnes manual lists a 400 XFB and coated XLC. Midway/Cabelas/Midsouth lists a 400gr Triple-Shock X hollow point, all with BC's of .546 OR .392 depending...the Barnes site lists the TSX BC at .392 so things have changed considerably at Barnes.

I can't keep up with Barnes...they keep dumping my favorite bullets and coming out with new ones. Doesn't matter...the BC is what it is.

Any of those Barnes offerings are too long anyway, to keep the performance at the highest level, for mag feeding in my Taylor. But they would work good for single feeding the first round. 350 gr Speer and 400 gr RN's work the best in my shorter magazine and for the game and distance I shoot...a very obvious point being, to use an action with a longer magazine for the big boomers...the change from lead based to solid based bullets and them having to be longer to achieve similar bullet weights.

Some of the solid brass bullets in 45 cal I turned out are 1.5" long wadcutters to get 500 gr and the same length for a 350 gr "spire point"...but the penetrate lodgepole pine logs like a hot knife through melted butter...and just barely smear the nose...AND just barely stabilize.

I keep running into the "limitations" of the Ruger/M98 magazine...having to seat long bullets deeper I would lose 100-150 fs in velocity which translates to ~400-600 ftlbs of energy with longer Barnes 400 gr bullets depending on the initial velocity, so I haven't even tried their 416 offerings.

Luck

quote:

I keep running into the "limitations" of the Ruger/M98 magazine...having to seat long bullets deeper I would lose 100-150 fs in velocity which translates to ~400-600 ftlbs of energy with longer Barnes 400 gr bullets depending on the initial velocity, so I haven't even tried their 416 offerings.

With all-copper bullets you need to think differently. forget the 400 grainers in .416 and think of the 350 grain as "heavy", 300 as medium. The 350 will not fail and will penetrate, but I don't know how it will fit in the Taylor. I have a couple Rigbys and with the 16.5" twist, I don't even think about a long 400 grain monometal bullet.

You're absolutely right there...Thanks for the insights, I haven't shot any heavy caliber Barnes...only 22 through 7mm.

I worked up the 350 Speer and 400 gr Horn RN loads, stopped there and went hunting...still use the same loads and haven't bothered to do much other than play with a few solid brass I turned...too many other shooters keep getting in the way.

COL's for my Taylor with those bullets run ~3.26 to 3.30". The 350 gr Magtip is 1.250" long, seated ~0.500" deep and NET capacity is ~75 gr H20. I've used RL-15, AA2520, H380 and Varget, all using 71-77 gr and giving ~2300- 2500 in my 26" bbl.

If I ever get to go after something that needs more than those two bullets I might tryout the Barnes Triple-Shock...they really are good looking bullets and seem to have excellent results.

H380 will go over 2500fs with a slightly compressed load but a tad stiff in the pressure department and the accuracy right at MOA...but Varget and RL-15 will do 1/2 moa when I do my part...at just shy of 2400fs.

Any bullet around 1.250" no matter what the weight will keep the NET volume as high as possible, but ANY 300-400 gr bullet at 2300 fs plus, with the normal BC and SD of the 416 cal will do the job without a doubt.

Considering the penetration of a 45 cal hard cast 400-550 gr bullets at 1500fs, no wonder it's hard to recover bullets in some game.

I've had 54 cal BP balls go through both scapulas and on out into the woods in one middl'n' elk cow at ~80 yds and at ~1200fs MV. She kinda took one last look around, hung her head, laid down, rolled over, sighed and died. That one was a bit tough as I've seen people die just about the same way. Funny how life's events can mess with your mind in completely different circumstances.

Luck

Only issue with the 350gr TTSX is length. It is very long at 1.61". In my 416 Ruger with 75gr of Varget the load is getting VERY compressed when seating to magazine function (3.36") length.

quote:

Only issue with the 350gr TTSX is length. It is very long at 1.61". In my 416 Ruger with 75gr of Varget the load is getting VERY compressed when seating to magazine function (3.36") length.

I agree with you on the length. I had contacted Barnes and put a Tipped 300 grain .416 on the wish list. I was quite surprised to hear that they came out with a 350 grain, but I am quite happy. The BC is great (.444--and they should put that up on their website) and turns the 416s into long range hunting rifles. Of course, for elk and longrange plains game I would still like to see a 300 grain with about a .400 BC. That will be a shorter bullet and more in line philosophically with the 250 grain TTSX that they did in the .375.

A 300 grain TTSX in .416" would do 3000fps in a Rigby. With a good BC that would be an awesome plainsgame combo. However, until such a bullet comes out I'll stick with the 350 grain TTSX. Our Rigbys do 2800fps and have so much retained velocity and energy at 300-400 yards that there is no reason in physics to drop to the lighter bullet. For the moment.

Gents

I'm no gunsmith, bit I've easily opened my spare Ruger M77 M2 to 3.575action using the same magazine box and some imagination. It can be done very simply and shouldn't stop you.

Reg S&F