I am getting this started:

McGowen Barrels:
I will pay the $500 tooling cost for a 10" twist. To add another twist such as 12" would require another $250 tooling cost to add on to my "investment in the future."

6-groove
.395" groove diameter
.387" bore diameter
contour of choice

You can do your own wildcat of choice.

GS Custom's own Gerard Schultz will be working on a .395-cal./330-grain HV and FN. These bullets will fit the barrel perfectly and be superbly accurate, no doubt.

I'll keep you posted as to when the barrels and bullets are actually available.

If anyone can add another barrel source or bullet source, great!

Any comment/discussion/criticism on land and groove diameters or twist rate choices should be interesting.

Reply to self:

On the condition that GS Custom Bullets (Gerard) approves, I could be persuaded to make the first batch of barrels a 1:12" twist, but definitely no slower than that.

I'm a reasonable man...I can go with the 1:12" twist. Keep me posted on the barrel and bullets deal, darned if I'm going to donate to build one and skip it for myself.

regards,

Rich

RIP,

Why would you do a thing like that? 1:12 is standard in a .375, not fast, so 1:12 in a .395 will only be very slightly fast, and 1:10 will be moderately fast. To equate with a 1:10 .474, you would need a 1:8 in the .395.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
RIP,

Why would you do a thing like that? 1:12 is standard in a .375, not fast, so 1:12 in a .395 will only be very slightly fast, and 1:10 will be moderately fast. To equate with a 1:10 .474, you would need a 1:8 in the .395.

Good point 500grains. I really do prefer the 1:10" twist. It is really not too twisted for sure.

I would want to do a .398 Lapua at 2700 fps, that will do enough rps for sure at that velocity.

The slightly lower velocity cats will need the faster twist for sure.

Those .505 Gibbs cats may want to go with the 12" twist, o.k., Rich is not off base there, if that is the wild and crazy idea. The rest of us are just crazy, not wild and crazy.

boomer,
I'll keep you posted on your pet caliber barrel and bullet availability.

How about a poll on 10" or 12" twist? Next.

that's a great photo dan.

Rich
I am still espousing the theory that dan has Alzheimer's Disease. The symptoms are eerily similar.

Rip - 1x12.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
1:12 is standard in a .375,

by george, I think he has finally gotten it

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
To equate with a 1:10 .474, you would need a 1:8 in the .395.

..
darn, so close, but nope... what does "equate" mean in this context? same amout of RPM? no, .... same amount of overstablization? no..... what does "eqaute" MEAN here...

just for giggles, and to remove absolute twist as an arguing factor.... let's talk about REQUIRED twist to stablize a bullet

let's have the following assumptions
1: assume, just for fun, 2500fps for discussions. makes it apples to apples .. with a range of 2200-2700fps
2: let's assume the bullet weight is "split the difference" between the 375 and .423... just for giggles, and call it 350gr
3: let's take one of the longest bullets in shooting sports, the barnes X bullets.
4: if the barnes x 300gr .375 is 1.470" and the .423 is 1.43, well just GUESS that a .395 bullet is 1.45" long...
5 feel free to use the twist calc on realguns.com to help with this.
http://www.realguns.com/calc/riflingtwist

For those playing along without access to a twist calc, we are just going to note the difference in REQUIRED twist

(drumroll)
the DELTA between a .475 and .395 bullet would be 7.6, at 2500...

with no difference in twist required (past the 0.0 range) from 2200 to 2700 in either bullet. Yep, no kidding.

required twist for a 1.45" long .395 at 2500 (2200-2700range) is 16.1.. a 14 would work nicely, a 12 would be good. REQUIRED twist for a .475 is 23.7 at 2500fps ... to match dan's "math" if you had a 1x10 twist .475, you would need a 1x2.4 twist on a .395 to "equate" it. ... that is, i assume that EQUATE in this context means "to overstablize to the point of lunacy"...


Someone might copy and paste the realguns link for dan, as I don't think he has access to a twist calculator, and the divergence from facts based discussion MIGHT be closed if he used the same measurement tools as everyone else.

jeffe

If I were building bullets for a 395, short range, knock them down and drag them out rifle, the preferred twist would be 1:10". The bullets would be differently designed and I would not include an SP in the range unless the case were much bigger.

If the twist calculator on RealGuns are returning the figures above, it is not working well with mono hollowpoints and boat tails.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
If I were building bullets for a 395, short range, knock them down and drag them out rifle, the preferred twist would be 1:10". The bullets would be differently designed and I would not include an SP in the range unless the case were much bigger.

If the twist calculator on RealGuns are returning the figures above, it is not working well with mono hollowpoints and boat tails.

so gerard...on the 30-06 case you would recomend the 1 in 10 twist for shorter range?

Yes. Due to the length of the SP bullet it will not be a good choice for an '06 case. It is close to 1.9" in length. If the use of the rifle is limited to the HV and FN, 1:10" is the way to go. If there will be 1:10 barrels, let me know and I will add another HV and FN for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Yes. Due to the length of the SP bullet it will not be a good choice for an '06 case. It is close to 1.9" in length. If the use of the rifle is limited to the HV and FN, 1:10" is the way to go. If there will be 1:10 barrels, let me know and I will add another HV and FN for it.

Gerard,
The poll says 12" twist.
With an almost 1.9" SP, in a 12" twist, I might be able to do some 1000 yard shooting with a .395/.338 Lapua, eh? I'll be able to get over 1" of bullet nose ahead of the case, and "almost" 0.9" of boat-tailed bullet base in the case.

When this caliber takes over the world, more twists and bullet weights surely will follow.

So is this cartridge optimized for long range shooting, like the 50 BMG?

Dan,
I am thinking, in SA where we do not have ready access to all manner of goodies, a 395 would be better than my 375H&H which is sadly in need of replacement. I no longer tolerate recoil well and a braked 395 makes more sense to me than a 416 of some description. 375H&H cases are readily available and case forming will be a breeze. Change the 7 to a 9 on the back of the case and there is no need for special brass. I do not mind the belt as it will headspace on the shoulder anyway.

This gives a very capable DG / large plains game rifle with 1000m capability for african varmints. To optimise for long range shooting will require more case capacity and then one starts getting into 416 Barret and 416 Nemesis territory and I think three would be a crowd.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
So is this cartridge optimized for long range shooting, like the 50 BMG?

no, please read the entire thread, before making posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Dan,
I am thinking, in SA where we do not have ready access to all manner of goodies, a 395 would be better than my 375H&H which is sadly in need of replacement. I no longer tolerate recoil well and a braked 395 makes more sense to me than a 416 of some description. 375H&H cases are readily available and case forming will be a breeze. Change the 7 to a 9 on the back of the case and there is no need for special brass. I do not mind the belt as it will headspace on the shoulder anyway.

This gives a very capable DG / large plains game rifle with 1000m capability for african varmints. To optimise for long range shooting will require more case capacity and then one starts getting into 416 Barret and 416 Nemesis territory and I think three would be a crowd.

heh, heh, the possibilities are numerous.

.395 H&H
.395 Weatherby
.395 Ruger
.395 RUM
.398 Lapua
.398 Weatherby
.398 Winchester Magnum

All with properly headstamped brass with the stroke of an engraving pen ... heh, heh ...

Some collection of "DIABOLICAL" GENIUSES we have here.

gerard...

we have got to get a 395 barrel out to you for some african testing.

thank you for your contributions to this project...

.395 H&H
.395 Weatherby
.395 Ruger
.395 RUM
.398 Lapua
.398 Weatherby
.398 Winchester Magnum

dont forget the 398 federal
i think we might be able to turn the 7 in 7mm rounds do a 3 75

so a 395 mauser (7mm)
398 mauser (8mm)
398x68
398x68 brenneke
395 wsm (7mm)
395saum (7mm)
396 steyer
45-398 (45-70).

Yes, indeed, what is involved with posting a "machined steel pipe" to RSA?

RIP,
Shipping a steel pipe over here will have to be within the framework of the new Act. Penalties for posession of an unlicensed weapon can be as high as 10 years in jail. You do not want to spend one day in an SA jail. I can find out about the process but there is no hurry. Doing the reamer locally is no problem and I will go with PMP 375H&H cases with improved shoulder. The caliber has to be put on record with the SA Firearms Register and it will be 395GSC if you do not mind. I have a P14 action that should do nicely and it will be fitted to an Armtec stock.

Gerard,
That is absolutely wonderful! Glad you are "on the case."

That case will be more appealing to more people.
So the .395/.375 H&H Improved will have about a 12% to 15% case capacity increase over the .375 H&H, after necking up and blowing out, wouldn't you say?

.395 GSC: It will be a cross between a .375 H&H/AI and a .416 Hoffman/Remington. Good neighborhood to be in.

RIP,

I think this incarnation should have a catchy yet gripping name.

The .396 Ass Ripper (AR) would be a head turner.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
RIP,

I think this incarnation should have a catchy yet gripping name.

The .396 Ass Ripper (AR) would be a head turner.

surestrike,
You really ought to when you say that, cuz
jeffeosso already has that one "sewed up."

No need to rip myself or anyone else a new one. We got our designations sewed up now.

Looks like I am stuck with the ".398 Lapua Magnum," but it might be simply the .395 RIP someday when proper brass is headstamped: 2800 fps with 340-grainer?

Gerard has got the ".395 GSC": 2700 fps with 340-grainer? (H&H improved. Hey, they are GSC HV's, known to give higher velocity than some other bullets that are harder to get moving at reasonable pressures.)

boom stick: ???

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
RIP,

I think this incarnation should have a catchy yet gripping name.

The .396 Ass Ripper (AR) would be a head turner.

damn...i had a good laugh on that one...

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
RIP,
Shipping a steel pipe over here will have to be within the framework of the new Act. Penalties for posession of an unlicensed weapon can be as high as 10 years in jail. You do not want to spend one day in an SA jail. I can find out about the process but there is no hurry. Doing the reamer locally is no problem and I will go with PMP 375H&H cases with improved shoulder. The caliber has to be put on record with the SA Firearms Register and it will be 395GSC if you do not mind. I have a P14 action that should do nicely and it will be fitted to an Armtec stock.

gerard...yes the 395 gsc will be a hit (pun intended) over there...

an english/african case with the new ass ripper bullet...looking forward to see the dead animals pile up with this cart...

gerard, can you write an article on the development and performance for magazines to publish?

rich will do the same here in yankeeland. maybe a colaberation for a spread in some magazines....it will sell bullets and rip can recoup the cost for the tooling. rich, rip, myself and any others who want to make a 395 can document the affect on american game.

i still cant believe the amount of parent cases that can be turned into ass rippers with the 395 cal. there are about 15 diff cases headstamps that can be changed with ease. last night i was figuring the 35 and 358 cases can be ripped off too so you could have a 395 whelen ect...also 398 hawk or 395 hawk...but hey, lets get the 395 gsc 398 lapua and 395 ruger/boom stick off the ground. but the point is so many carts can be necked up and rebarreled

rich...p.m. me yer address to send some santa barbara action donation money

You guys better check to make sure Rick Jamison didn't file a patent on this first

gerard...soooo the 395 gsc will look like this but a fatter bullet?

the 35 whelen improved is one of the most efficient carts...the proportions are very similar.

Looks like Gerard will have about .497 -.424 = .073" difference between shoulder and neck 1.

That will be about 37 thou per side to headspace on besides the belt. That is plenty.

The .395/.338 Lapua Magnum AKA .398 Lapua Magnum when properly touched by the engraving pen (AKA ".396 Ass Ripper," or more seriously, the ".395 RIP": great for Texas Heart Shots on elephant) will have about .544 - .424 = .120" difference of shoulder and neck diameter, or 60 thou per side. Final specifics will depend on the dummies, hopefully no neck reaming or outside turning will be required. I sure would hate to ream an Ass Ripper. Proctology is not my specialty.

The neck length of the .338 Lapua is .327" long at max brass length of 2.724".
A straight neck-up to .395 will produce a neck that is .402" long, if the brass did not shorten and it stayed 2.724" max.

So, someday when properly headstamped ".395 RIP" brass is available, it will be 2.724" case length with .402" neck length for the .395 caliber bullet.

boom stick,
I am not supposed to "recoup" anything on this, and I do not know whatever you might mean by that. Don't be so silly. We would like to see you get off YOUR ASS, however. You know, crap or get off the pot?

If it makes some new barrels and bullets available, that is a wonderful thing.

It is for the common good. Buy the world a Coke. Peace, Brother.

i am sending rich $100 for the action fund as soon as i get word of where to send it...i do what i can when i can rip

did not mean to offend rip...

Count be in on a McGowen barrel. I think it is time for A/R to have it's own Machine Shop, just for these type of ideas. Eventually A/R will become an entity where it will the athority on riflery, period. Take a look at the A/R crew. Colectively, A/R kicks butt.
Timan

tinman...goodonya!

the more the merrier...

quote:

I sure would hate to ream an Ass Ripper. Proctology is not my specialty.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
Count be in on a McGowen barrel. I think it is time for A/R to have it's own Machine Shop, just for these type of ideas. Eventually A/R will become an entity where it will the athority on riflery, period. Take a look at the A/R crew. Colectively, A/R kicks butt.
Timan

Timan,
This is very good. Your gravitas will help to blaze the .395 trail on this side of the pond.

USA: Harry McGowen and Stuart Satterlee
RSA: Gerard Shultz

Gravitas.

tinman...

what parent case would you use?
the improved 375 h+h like gerard?
the amazing to be lapua version?
the goldilocks just right ruger to be case?

i figure a 340 grn 395 going 2500 fps on the soon to be ruger case will be terrrific but as rip said...the lapua based rip ripper will do a texas heart shot on an elephant!

and in a saterlee action...well, now thats just pretty

maybe yer saterlee action can be the covergirl for the soon to be articles written on it. i like the fact that those involved should get some press out of this.

rip...

we will have to come up with a multi use ream all to make any neck up cart a 395 with a throat/neck reamer...

just use a standard reamer and then ream out to the correct neck length.

use a 375 h+h chamber reamer then a 395 neck/throat reamer.

this will work right???

neck downs will just be re grinding a std reamer...

boomer,
An all-purpose neck and throat reamer paired with the standard reamer of choice with floating .395 pilot would be one way to go.

It worked fine for me on .338 Lapua Magnum cats so far.

I plan to do a one piece .395/.338 Lapua reamer with tight throat for the .395 Tatanka.

I want to get some .395 GSC bullets to make dummies with and measure neck thicknesses with desired brass before ordering a reamer ... soon.

Anyone serious about doing a .395 ought to get an order in to GSC for .395 bullets when they are available ... soon ... and a barrel from McGowen ... soon.